Amateur Rules Reform Suggestion Forum

[emile]

I don't think it's started yet, so hold onto your hat.

[boxmel]

Golf wants in for 2016......I HATE golf!

[Athorn4941]

Is there any reason they couldn't score the match after the match is done? I know it sounds stupid but they could have the judges watch the match from different camera views to see what punch lands and what punches don't(sort of like instant replay Judge could slow down to see busy parts of the bout or speed up the action to get through lulls in the fight). Get very accurate scoring that way.

Would make the boxers fight from beginning to end without knowing the outcome till the judges are done counting punches from the video.

Don't necessarily have to have the boxers in the ring to wait for a decision. Have them leave the ring. Since a boxer would not know the immediate outcome there would be better sportsman ship instead of a boxer leaving the ring and flicking off people.

Combinations would be easier to count.

Body punches would be easier to count.

Wrong person would not accidently get credited for a punch.

Bad judges would be caught or they could defend their decession easier.

Judges don't have to be ringside on each side could be a individual videotaping the match. Judges could be sitting backstage reviewing the fights.

I don't know it is more time consuming but it is an idea.

[boxmel]

Is there any reason they couldn't score the match after the match is done? I know it sounds stupid

Exceedingly. Sure - if they are willing to schedule Olympic boxing for more than two weeks - way more than two weeks.

but they could have the judges watch the match from different camera views to see what punch lands and what punches don't(sort of like instant replay Judge could slow down to see busy parts of the bout or speed up the action to get through lulls in the fight). Get very accurate scoring that way.

Waiting for every judge to agree on what is considered a legal effective punch would take at least 1/2 hour and definitely more.

Would make the boxers fight from beginning to end without knowing the outcome till the judges are done counting punches from the video.

As they sit in there corners waiting for each decision. I don't think so.

Don't necessarily have to have the boxers in the ring to wait for a decision. Have them leave the ring.

And come back hours later for a mass announcement? Ugh.

Since a boxer would not know the immediate outcome there would be better sportsman ship instead of a boxer leaving the ring and flicking off people.

Not a good argument.

Bad judges would be caught or they could defend their decession easier

.

"Bad" judges are caught now with the computer scoring system. Three jury members monitor every bout.

I don't know it is more time consuming but it is an idea.

Nice try - but will never fly.

[Dennis]

Mel does not like change. She is comfortable with the current ESS and is resistant to any changes. I like the suggestion of judging more correctly by using video. Anything to make the bouts more exciting. If we continue down the current path without any changes, I think boxing will be out of the Olympics in the near future. If we make some changes that speeds up the sport and gives boxers an incentive to let their hands go and take some risks, then fans will watch it and the sport will grow. And remain an Olympic sport.

[boxmel]

Mel does not like change.

Please don't accuse me of something unless you are sure.

She is comfortable with the current ESS and is resistant to any changes.

Dennis, I just know that the IOC is not going to allow any other type of scoring but the computer. Any changes made to assure the ESS is better do not bother me. Why would you think so?

I like the suggestion of judging more correctly by using video. Anything to make the bouts more exciting.

Please think about the time involved in doing this. Why would we want to take the time, make the boxers wait, extend the Olympic boxing just to make the bouts more exciting? Is this for the boxers or the fans, your suggestion?

If we continue down the current path without any changes, I think boxing will be out of the Olympics in the near future.

What changes would you make to the computer scoring system?

If we make some changes that speeds up the sport and gives boxers an incentive to let their hands go and take some risks, then fans will watch it and the sport will grow. And remain an Olympic sport.

Video judging will not speed up the sport. Please tell me how you would do video judging, if it were up to you.

[emile]

I think it is more correct to say that Mel is resistant to the idea that other people will change.

Anyway, I think post-fight scoring is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, but I would not be in favor of it (then again, I don't like the application of instant replay in almost every sport either, and I know I'm in the minority). They did this in gymnastics this time, spending a lot of time reviewing the film to work out their deductions. It halted the flow of the event and didn't make it much less controversial. In boxing it would take much longer, and would not necessarily provide clear results, because not all of the definitions of a scoring punch are totally objective. And even the ones that are might look different on tape to different people.

Here is a collection of some ideas I have had. Most probably moot if the scoring is to be changed anyway away from accepted scores. But if overscoring and underscoring are both problems (which I think they are):

- keep the tighter requirement for scoring but make only 2 judges have to score, instead of 3
- keep the tighter requirement but add more judges while keeping the 3-judge accepted score

I was thinking about how there are two judges on one side of the ring, and how that affects scoring. I doubt most coaches would burden a boxer with trying to remember to not throw while those judges are blocked, but I bet the Cubans do it. What about moving the fifth judge to score on a TV monitor, while keeping the other four each at ringside?

Seeding may not be a big issue, but I came up with another idea. Seed the World Champion at the top, in the bye quarter. Fill out seven alternating top lines with random draws of the other seven quarterfinalists from the WC. Then fill out the remaining top lines with random draws of fighters who qualified at their continent's first qualifier. Then randomly draw all unpicked 1st qualifiers and all of the 2nd qualifiers to fill out the bottom lines. I did a mock draw this way and it came out pretty fair.

The other idea is to go to double elimination. This would never fly with the IOC, I'm sure, but the tournament is so cruelly short for so many fighters. A boxing repachage would not be out of order, especially since most of the bouts are not physically punishing (going back to 3x3 does make it more so though). It would be a lot of boxing, but adding a second or even third ring seems possible to me.

[boxmel]

I think it is more correct to say that Mel is resistant to the idea that other people will change.

Huh? You lost me on this one.

In boxing it would take much longer, and would not necessarily provide clear results, because not all of the definitions of a scoring punch are totally objective. And even the ones that are might look different on tape to different people.

Exactly.

- keep the tighter requirement for scoring but make only 2 judges have to score, instead of 3
- keep the tighter requirement but add more judges while keeping the 3-judge accepted score

The 2 judges only (probably moot because it is going to individual scores) would make more sense than adding more judges from a logistical and monetary point of view.

I was thinking about how there are two judges on one side of the ring, and how that affects scoring. I doubt most coaches would burden a boxer with trying to remember to not throw while those judges are blocked, but I bet the Cubans do it.

Our computer-savvy coaches are teaching their boxers to move in the middle of the ring to give as many, if not all, the judges the chance to see scoring blows. This doesn't seem to be a huge problem in the U.S., depending on the coach.

What about moving the fifth judge to score on a TV monitor, while keeping the other four each at ringside?

I am resistant to moving ANY judge away from the ring - and I'm not comfortable with giving one judge an overall viewpoint - seems to me this doesn't give a level playing field with regard to the judges. Just my thoughts.

The other idea is to go to double elimination. This would never fly with the IOC, I'm sure, but the tournament is so cruelly short for so many fighters.

That's the Olympics.

It would be a lot of boxing, but adding a second or even third ring seems possible to me.

That would seem like a good idea for the prelims. However, I'm sure the argument would be against not having each two boxers showcased at THE OLYMPICS. Would also triple the number of officials and equipment.

I have heard that AIBA monitors all news, including forums - maybe some of your ideas will be taken into consideration, Emile.