Weight Training And Boxing

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I know Michael Spinks and Evander Holyfield incorporated weight training into their boxing regiment. Are there any other boxers, past and present who do?

I know some of the old timers are dead set against it...

Do you think it would have made some of the old timers better or worse?

[adamheight]

I know Michael Spinks and Evander Holyfield incorporated weight training into their boxing regiment. Are there any other boxers, past and present who do?

I know some of the old timers are dead set against it...

Do you think it would have made some of the old timers better or worse?

i know roy jones used to be dead set against it too...but RJJ must have used weights when he went upto heavyweight?!

[ringsider]

It is not a good thing.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

It is not a good thing.

Why


Say a man weighs 200 pounds and he wants to weigh 220 pounds...Wouldn't it make sense for that twenty pounds to be muscle?

I don't know...

[boxbible]

The only people who seem to think that weight training is a bad thing for boxers are those who:

a) never did it, so don't know anything about it

b) or, have done it, or know someone who did it, but with the wrong methods, or who plain sucked anyway and whom no amount of weight training would have helped

There is TONS of evidence supporting the benefits of a properly incorporated weight training program for boxers... but there are also those to whom the word "evidence" is just something to be stepped over in favor of a more convenient, old-fashioned dogma...

[Collins2000]

It is not a good thing.

Why


Say a man weighs 200 pounds and he wants to weigh 220 pounds...Wouldn't it make sense for that twenty pounds to be muscle?

I don't know...

I'd have to say that example makes sense to me.

[JC]

Say a man weighs 200 pounds and he wants to weigh 220 pounds...Wouldn't it make sense for that twenty pounds to be muscle?

I would have though it would depend on whether he could carry that extra 20lbs and still be effective. Muscles eat up oxygen and too much extra bulk can hurt your stamina a la Frank Bruno.

I sure if done sensibly weights can help a boxer.

[boxbible]

Muscles eat up oxygen and too much extra bulk can hurt your stamina a la Frank Bruno.

Didn't hurt Mike Weaver, Ken Norton, or Mike Tyson. Bruno's stamina was a mental issue. He couldn't stay relaxed... a key to not tiring out.

[dempseyfire]

Muscles eat up oxygen and too much extra bulk can hurt your stamina a la Frank Bruno.

Didn't hurt Mike Weaver, Ken Norton, or Mike Tyson. Bruno's stamina was a mental issue. He couldn't stay relaxed... a key to not tiring out.

Norton, Weaver, and Tyson at their peaks were very lean for their body frames (also, none of them lifted weights in their primes).

Now you have guys like Rahman and Briggs who lift weigh too much and have excess mass on their frame, slowing them down and adversly affecting their speed and stamina.

[Seamus]

There was a time when coaches in almost every sport, thought weights were bad. It was supposed to ruin your swing, your throwing motion, make you too tight, destroy your flexibility etc. All that's been long disproven however, and now you'll find guys pumping iron in virtually every sport including boxing. Obviously, you CANNOT make it the main focus of your training. And, heavy weights will not harm your stamina. Neglecting exercises like pushups, dips, high repetitive punching workouts and road work is what most accounts for lack of stamina.

[boxbible]

Norton, Weaver, and Tyson at their peaks were very lean for their body frames (also, none of them lifted weights in their primes).

Yes... very lean fellows...

Now you have guys like Rahman and Briggs who lift weigh too much and have excess mass on their frame, slowing them down and adversly affecting their speed and stamina.

They're just not in shape most of the time...

It has nothing to do with the body carrying all that mass. If that's the case, then only the legs should get tired because that's what's really carrying all that mass against gravity. The upper body doesn't "carry" any mass. The upper body just moves the torso, arms and head.

In which case, the larger the upper body muscles, the easier it is to move the torso, arms and head. But its possible that the added upperbody weight can weigh down upon the leg muscles and make those tired, but all you need to do there is condition those leg muscles a little more.

But if the muscles are not trained to sustain effort, then they can get tired. In other words, muscle mass doesn't get you any more tired in and of itself. But being out of shape surely will.

[Ambling Alp]

Actually, Norton and Weaver were ripped, but they were "lean" in comparison to say Frank Bruno or Shannon Briggs.

Excessive bulk can hurt your stamina, even if it's muscle. The proof is in the pudding. Really big fighters seldom have good stamina. Excessive bulk also hurts your reflexes and hand speed.

That being said, lifting weights can be beneficial for certain fighters. If you naturally weigh only only slightly more than the lightheavyweight limit, it may make sense to bulk up a little, assuming your height and frame can handle it.

As mentioned previously, for most fighters, it's work in the gym (and road work) that is most important. Athletes (boxers included) need to train for their specific sport, not for looks.

[Seamus]

At the height of his career, Ken Norton stated that he had never lifted weights in his life.

[boxbible]

Excessive bulk can hurt your stamina, even if it's muscle. The proof is in the pudding. Really big fighters seldom have good stamina. Excessive bulk also hurts your reflexes and hand speed.

Not all weight-training makes you bulky. Power-training means you're trying to get as much muscle power generated in as short a time as possible. The kind of weight-training I'm sure you're referring to is the old body-building routines, the only one most people see and know of.

Guys who are bulky, are bulky because they posses an abundance of Type 2a and 2b muscle-fibres... the kinds that are explosive but run out of fuel very quickly. It's like sprinters can run powerfully fast, but they could NEVER keep up with a middle-distance runner or marathoner. So, in that sense, bulky fighters may be disadvantaged over longer sessions.

But there's no way bulk hurts reflexes and hand speed. Reflexes are, quite simply, just your reaction time. Large muscle should help hand speed because the larger the muscle, the more force you can move those arms with. But probably this stereotype gets reflected due to the bad stamina of these fighters and the way they slow down as a result.

[Ezzard]

Didn't Archie Moore shadow box with irons in his hands? Hagler, a Moore fan, copied this regime as a boy...

[IKSRTFO]

Whenver someone claims that weight training slows you down all I say is Bruce Lee. He lifted plenty of weights everyday but it was mainly how he lifted them. I'd take Lee's speed over yours anyday.

[Poncey]

Didn't Archie Moore shadow box with irons in his hands? Hagler, a Moore fan, copied this regime as a boy...

David Haye also does it now (appreciate it isn't BOTP). I've seen him do it with 20KG dumbells in his hands side jumping a bench.

I lasted 20 seconds.

[dempseyfire]

Norton, Weaver, and Tyson at their peaks were very lean for their body frames (also, none of them lifted weights in their primes).

Yes... very lean fellows...

Now you have guys like Rahman and Briggs who lift weigh too much and have excess mass on their frame, slowing them down and adversly affecting their speed and stamina.

They're just not in shape most of the time...

It has nothing to do with the body carrying all that mass. If that's the case, then only the legs should get tired because that's what's really carrying all that mass against gravity. The upper body doesn't "carry" any mass. The upper body just moves the torso, arms and head.

In which case, the larger the upper body muscles, the easier it is to move the torso, arms and head. But its possible that the added upperbody weight can weigh down upon the leg muscles and make those tired, but all you need to do there is condition those leg muscles a little more.

But if the muscles are not trained to sustain effort, then they can get tired. In other words, muscle mass doesn't get you any more tired in and of itself. But being out of shape surely will.

Norton was 6'3 and about 212-218 at his peak. Compared to the oafs today that's incredibly lean. Weaver was 6'1 and 200-210 at his peak. And that pic is not of a prime Tyson.

The upper-body doesn't carry any mass? Huh? So putting on increased mass on your arms and shoulders won't increase lactic acid build-up?

The more disproportionate a fighter's height/frame to mass ratio, the quicker he will tire in the wide majority of cases. And the actual in-ring evidence backs me up.

Do I think ALL weight lifting is detrimental, no of course not. But overall it does more harm than good.

[Ambling Alp]

Excessive bulk can hurt your stamina, even if it's muscle. The proof is in the pudding. Really big fighters seldom have good stamina. Excessive bulk also hurts your reflexes and hand speed.

Not all weight-training makes you bulky. Power-training means you're trying to get as much muscle power generated in as short a time as possible. The kind of weight-training I'm sure you're referring to is the old body-building routines, the only one most people see and know of.

Guys who are bulky, are bulky because they posses an abundance of Type 2a and 2b muscle-fibres... the kinds that are explosive but run out of fuel very quickly. It's like sprinters can run powerfully fast, but they could NEVER keep up with a middle-distance runner or marathoner. So, in that sense, bulky fighters may be disadvantaged over longer sessions.

But there's no way bulk hurts reflexes and hand speed. Reflexes are, quite simply, just your reaction time. Large muscle should help hand speed because the larger the muscle, the more force you can move those arms with. But probably this stereotype gets reflected due to the bad stamina of these fighters and the way they slow down as a result.

I know that not all weight lifting makes you bulky, and I'm sure most other people know that as well. If you read what I wrote you will see that weight training can be benificial in certain circumstances but if fighters that bulk up too much will have negative consequences.

I strongly disagree with you saying that "there's no way bulk hurts reflexes and hand speed." Of course it can. Add several pounds to person who is already in good shape and they are going to be much slower.
Really big heavyweights are almost always slow and don't react well.
Look at Shannon Briggs after he bulked up. He became much slower.
Fighters at lower weights almost always have faster hand speed than fighters in the upper weights.

[sockdolager]

Whenver someone claims that weight training slows you down all I say is Bruce Lee. He lifted plenty of weights everyday but it was mainly how he lifted them. I'd take Lee's speed over yours anyday.

I was about to mention this. Lee trained with weights daily but he also used to stretch his muscles not allowing them to limit his movement. As long as you don't go extremely overboard and continue to stretch the muscles you work, weight lifting should not impede a fighter.

[elmersalsa]

The great Pernell Whitaker used weights to improve his upper-body strenght against certain opponents.

Also Terry Norris lifted weights as part of his training regime.

I also believe that the great Sugar Ray Leonard lifted weights for his upper body strenght for the second fight against the great Roberto Duran.

[elmersalsa]

I like this topic...It is different, and entertaining.

[dagosd2000]

At the height of his career, Ken Norton stated that he had never lifted weights in his life.

i knew Kenny. Sparred with him. You're right, he never touched weights.

[boxbible]

The upper-body doesn't carry any mass? Huh? So putting on increased mass on your arms and shoulders won't increase lactic acid build-up?

For your body to be affected by "carrying" a heavier load, or mass, it has to be working against the downward pull of gravity. In that sense, the upper-body doesn't "carry" the mass. The legs "carry" the mass. When people get heavier, do their shoulders pop? Does there ribcage explode? No... But their knees sometimes give out. It's not used to the added weight. Substitute upper-body muscle mass for stomach fat and its the same effect, "carrying"-wise.

Now, if you added muscle mass only to the legs to gain weight, and the legs are the biggest muscles in the body anyway, and just strengthened the upper body without added mass, you would get stronger, and faster, without a doubt. Afterall, it's the legs that generate the majority of punching power anyway. The comparatively tiny upper body muscles just transfer that power.

The more disproportionate a fighter's height/frame to mass ratio, the quicker he will tire in the wide majority of cases. And the actual in-ring evidence backs me up.

Does that mean the skinnier you are, the less tired you're gonna get? Tommy Hearns always got a bit tired. How about those two power-houses Tua and Ibeachi going toe-to-toe for twelve rounds? Two bulky athletes who were well conditioned.

Do I think ALL weight lifting is detrimental, no of course not. But overall it does more harm than good.

Selective evidence to back up deeply-seated dogmas just won't cut it. Sometimes, it's better to realise that the old methods, or times, WEREN'T as good as some of the new ones. Weight training is a prime example evidenced by almost every major sport on this planet.

[boxbible]

...but if fighters that bulk up too much will have negative consequences.

Not if it's done correctly... it sure didn't hurt Bernard Hopkins go up 2 divisions... and neither did it hurt RJJ move up to heavyweight!!!

I strongly disagree with you saying that "there's no way bulk hurts reflexes and hand speed." Of course it can. Add several pounds to person who is already in good shape and they are going to be much slower.

Then how come sprinters can bulk up and keep getting faster? If you add 10 pounds of muscle to your legs, it's gonna be that much easier to propel your bodyweight in the direction of your opponent. You'll be able to do it faster, and with more power. Of course, bulking up the tiny arm and chest muscles while not strengthening the leg muscles will have the opposite effect of making it harder for those same leg muscles to propel the heavier body-weight forward. that is definitely counter-productive weight training.

Really big heavyweights are almost always slow and don't react well.

Lennox Lewis would disagree... it is a smaller pool of talent to pick from when it comes to huge people, therefore there should be far less exceptional athletes amongst them leaving the division with a bunch of average talent (slow, clumsy and not too powerful).

Look at Shannon Briggs after he bulked up. He became much slower.

He was quite a bit older too...

Fighters at lower weights almost always have faster hand speed than fighters in the upper weights.

Fighters at higher weights almost always have more power than fighters at lower weights...

An F-15 will surely outspeed a B-52... but which one would you choose to pulverize your enemy?