I was reading a Feb. 1929 newspaper article entitled "Remember This Fight?" It was a frequently-published column that recalled the details of some former battle. Anyway, for Feb. 25, the article spoke about the first time Wilde and Moore met - sometime in December 1918 at London. Moore won. The article says that because of Moore's peculiar slapping style that mystified Wilde and caused a roar of protest throughout England, that a rematch was demanded. It was held the following year and that time Wilde won. BoxRec has the 1919 bout, but not the December 1918 one. Can someone confirm this Dec. 1918 bout?
Ric
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=09023
Jimmy Wilde-Memphis Pal Moore
This bout was in the nature of an exhibition; here are the complete results BUT PLEASE -- NONE OF THESE should make their way into the official records!
Inter-Allied King's Trophy Competition,
Dec 11 & 12, 1918, London, England
Heavyweight
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Joe Cox (USN)
Joe Beckett (Eng) KO1 Sgt. Borthwick (Can)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Seaman Powell
Eddie McGoorty (USA) W 3 Pte. C. Horrocks (SA)
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Cpl Stephenson (Aust)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Eddie McGoorty (US)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Joe Beckett (Eng) Championship Bout
Light-heavyweight (Cruiserweight)
Harry Greb (USN) KO1 L-Cpl. Baker (SA)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 Harry Greb (USN)
P.O. Murton (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Borcham (NZ)
Pte. Mike O'Dowd (US) W 3 Sgt. Harold Rolph (Can)
Dick Smith W 3 Sgt. Sale (RAF)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 P.O. Murton (Aust)
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Dick Smith
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) Championship Bout
Middleweight
Sgt. J. Ponsford (RN) KO 2 Sgt. Cole (SA)
(Ponsford broke arm & withdrew from competition)
Pte Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Seaman Wallach (Marty Cross) (US)
Cpl Jack Blumenfeld (RAF) W 3 Pte. McFarlane (NZ)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Sgt. Godfrey (Aust)
Pte. Blanchard (Can) W w/o Sgt. Ponsford
Augie Ratner (US) TKO 3 Pte. Blanchard (Can)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Cpl. Jack Blumenfeld (RAF)
Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Billy Fullerton Championship Bout
Welterweight
Seaman Wilkinson (RN) W 3 Pte Jake Abel (US)
P.O. Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 Seaman Wilkinson (RN)
A.M. Swinnerton (USA) W 3 Pte. Thomson (SA)
(Jim Prendy)
Johnny Basham W 3 Joe Attwood (Can)
Pte. Tierney (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Lawless (NZ)
Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 A.M. Swinnerton (US)
Johnny Basham W 3 Pte. Tierney (Aust)
Johnny Basham W 3 Cal Delaney (USN) Championship Bout
Lightweight
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Richie Mitchell (US)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Cpl. Green (SA)
George Gamester W3 Eddie Shannon (US)
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Jimmy Clarke (Can.)
Sgt. Miller (Aust.) W3 RFN Gunn (NZ)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 George Gamester
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Miller (Aust.)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Seaman A. Smith (RN) Championship Bout
Featherweight
Cpl. Bingham (Can) W3 Tommy Spearman (NZ)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Cpl. Bingham (Can)
Tom Evans (BA) W3 Ernie Proudlove (RAF)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) W3 Seaman Davis (RN)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Tom Evans (BA)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) KO2 Nipper Peakes (Aust.)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Eddie Coulon (US Army) Championship Bout
Bantamweight
Pal Moore (US Navy) W3 A.B. Patten (RN)
Johnny Hughes (ENG) W3 Sapper Benson (NZ)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Joe Lynch (US)
Digger Evans (AUS) W3 Pte. Jones(CAN)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Johnny Hughes (RAF)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Digger Evans (AUS)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Jimmy Wilde (Wales) Championship Bout
Flyweight
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte. Aylott (Aust.)
Joe Percival (Eng) KO2 Pte. Sims (Can)
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte Callender (US)
Stephens (RN) W3 Goves
KO Brown (US) W3 Joe Percival
KO Brown W3 Stephens Championship
Inter-Allied King's Trophy Competition,
Dec 11 & 12, 1918, London, England
Heavyweight
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Joe Cox (USN)
Joe Beckett (Eng) KO1 Sgt. Borthwick (Can)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Seaman Powell
Eddie McGoorty (USA) W 3 Pte. C. Horrocks (SA)
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Cpl Stephenson (Aust)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Eddie McGoorty (US)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Joe Beckett (Eng) Championship Bout
Light-heavyweight (Cruiserweight)
Harry Greb (USN) KO1 L-Cpl. Baker (SA)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 Harry Greb (USN)
P.O. Murton (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Borcham (NZ)
Pte. Mike O'Dowd (US) W 3 Sgt. Harold Rolph (Can)
Dick Smith W 3 Sgt. Sale (RAF)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 P.O. Murton (Aust)
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Dick Smith
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) Championship Bout
Middleweight
Sgt. J. Ponsford (RN) KO 2 Sgt. Cole (SA)
(Ponsford broke arm & withdrew from competition)
Pte Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Seaman Wallach (Marty Cross) (US)
Cpl Jack Blumenfeld (RAF) W 3 Pte. McFarlane (NZ)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Sgt. Godfrey (Aust)
Pte. Blanchard (Can) W w/o Sgt. Ponsford
Augie Ratner (US) TKO 3 Pte. Blanchard (Can)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Cpl. Jack Blumenfeld (RAF)
Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Billy Fullerton Championship Bout
Welterweight
Seaman Wilkinson (RN) W 3 Pte Jake Abel (US)
P.O. Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 Seaman Wilkinson (RN)
A.M. Swinnerton (USA) W 3 Pte. Thomson (SA)
(Jim Prendy)
Johnny Basham W 3 Joe Attwood (Can)
Pte. Tierney (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Lawless (NZ)
Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 A.M. Swinnerton (US)
Johnny Basham W 3 Pte. Tierney (Aust)
Johnny Basham W 3 Cal Delaney (USN) Championship Bout
Lightweight
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Richie Mitchell (US)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Cpl. Green (SA)
George Gamester W3 Eddie Shannon (US)
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Jimmy Clarke (Can.)
Sgt. Miller (Aust.) W3 RFN Gunn (NZ)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 George Gamester
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Miller (Aust.)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Seaman A. Smith (RN) Championship Bout
Featherweight
Cpl. Bingham (Can) W3 Tommy Spearman (NZ)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Cpl. Bingham (Can)
Tom Evans (BA) W3 Ernie Proudlove (RAF)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) W3 Seaman Davis (RN)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Tom Evans (BA)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) KO2 Nipper Peakes (Aust.)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Eddie Coulon (US Army) Championship Bout
Bantamweight
Pal Moore (US Navy) W3 A.B. Patten (RN)
Johnny Hughes (ENG) W3 Sapper Benson (NZ)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Joe Lynch (US)
Digger Evans (AUS) W3 Pte. Jones(CAN)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Johnny Hughes (RAF)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Digger Evans (AUS)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Jimmy Wilde (Wales) Championship Bout
Flyweight
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte. Aylott (Aust.)
Joe Percival (Eng) KO2 Pte. Sims (Can)
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte Callender (US)
Stephens (RN) W3 Goves
KO Brown (US) W3 Joe Percival
KO Brown W3 Stephens Championship
This bout was in the nature of an exhibition; here are the complete results BUT PLEASE -- NONE OF THESE should make their way into the official records!
Inter-Allied King's Trophy Competition,
Dec 11 & 12, 1918, London, England
Heavyweight
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Joe Cox (USN)
Joe Beckett (Eng) KO1 Sgt. Borthwick (Can)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Seaman Powell
Eddie McGoorty (USA) W 3 Pte. C. Horrocks (SA)
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Cpl Stephenson (Aust)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Eddie McGoorty (US)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Joe Beckett (Eng) Championship Bout
Light-heavyweight (Cruiserweight)
Harry Greb (USN) KO1 L-Cpl. Baker (SA)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 Harry Greb (USN)
P.O. Murton (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Borcham (NZ)
Pte. Mike O'Dowd (US) W 3 Sgt. Harold Rolph (Can)
Dick Smith W 3 Sgt. Sale (RAF)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 P.O. Murton (Aust)
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Dick Smith
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) Championship Bout
Middleweight
Sgt. J. Ponsford (RN) KO 2 Sgt. Cole (SA)
(Ponsford broke arm & withdrew from competition)
Pte Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Seaman Wallach (Marty Cross) (US)
Cpl Jack Blumenfeld (RAF) W 3 Pte. McFarlane (NZ)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Sgt. Godfrey (Aust)
Pte. Blanchard (Can) W w/o Sgt. Ponsford
Augie Ratner (US) TKO 3 Pte. Blanchard (Can)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Cpl. Jack Blumenfeld (RAF)
Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Billy Fullerton Championship Bout
Welterweight
Seaman Wilkinson (RN) W 3 Pte Jake Abel (US)
P.O. Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 Seaman Wilkinson (RN)
A.M. Swinnerton (USA) W 3 Pte. Thomson (SA)
(Jim Prendy)
Johnny Basham W 3 Joe Attwood (Can)
Pte. Tierney (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Lawless (NZ)
Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 A.M. Swinnerton (US)
Johnny Basham W 3 Pte. Tierney (Aust)
Johnny Basham W 3 Cal Delaney (USN) Championship Bout
Lightweight
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Richie Mitchell (US)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Cpl. Green (SA)
George Gamester W3 Eddie Shannon (US)
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Jimmy Clarke (Can.)
Sgt. Miller (Aust.) W3 RFN Gunn (NZ)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 George Gamester
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Miller (Aust.)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Seaman A. Smith (RN) Championship Bout
Featherweight
Cpl. Bingham (Can) W3 Tommy Spearman (NZ)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Cpl. Bingham (Can)
Tom Evans (BA) W3 Ernie Proudlove (RAF)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) W3 Seaman Davis (RN)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Tom Evans (BA)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) KO2 Nipper Peakes (Aust.)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Eddie Coulon (US Army) Championship Bout
Bantamweight
Pal Moore (US Navy) W3 A.B. Patten (RN)
Johnny Hughes (ENG) W3 Sapper Benson (NZ)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Joe Lynch (US)
Digger Evans (AUS) W3 Pte. Jones(CAN)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Johnny Hughes (RAF)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Digger Evans (AUS)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Jimmy Wilde (Wales) Championship Bout
Flyweight
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte. Aylott (Aust.)
Joe Percival (Eng) KO2 Pte. Sims (Can)
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte Callender (US)
Stephens (RN) W3 Goves
KO Brown (US) W3 Joe Percival
KO Brown W3 Stephens Championship
Inter-Allied King's Trophy Competition,
Dec 11 & 12, 1918, London, England
Heavyweight
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Joe Cox (USN)
Joe Beckett (Eng) KO1 Sgt. Borthwick (Can)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Seaman Powell
Eddie McGoorty (USA) W 3 Pte. C. Horrocks (SA)
Joe Beckett (Eng) W 3 Cpl Stephenson (Aust)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Eddie McGoorty (US)
Billy Wells (Eng) W 3 Joe Beckett (Eng) Championship Bout
Light-heavyweight (Cruiserweight)
Harry Greb (USN) KO1 L-Cpl. Baker (SA)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 Harry Greb (USN)
P.O. Murton (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Borcham (NZ)
Pte. Mike O'Dowd (US) W 3 Sgt. Harold Rolph (Can)
Dick Smith W 3 Sgt. Sale (RAF)
Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) W 3 P.O. Murton (Aust)
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Dick Smith
Mike O'Dowd (USA) W 3 Sgt. W. Ring (RMA) Championship Bout
Middleweight
Sgt. J. Ponsford (RN) KO 2 Sgt. Cole (SA)
(Ponsford broke arm & withdrew from competition)
Pte Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Seaman Wallach (Marty Cross) (US)
Cpl Jack Blumenfeld (RAF) W 3 Pte. McFarlane (NZ)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Sgt. Godfrey (Aust)
Pte. Blanchard (Can) W w/o Sgt. Ponsford
Augie Ratner (US) TKO 3 Pte. Blanchard (Can)
Billy Fullerton W 3 Cpl. Jack Blumenfeld (RAF)
Augie Ratner (US) W 3 Billy Fullerton Championship Bout
Welterweight
Seaman Wilkinson (RN) W 3 Pte Jake Abel (US)
P.O. Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 Seaman Wilkinson (RN)
A.M. Swinnerton (USA) W 3 Pte. Thomson (SA)
(Jim Prendy)
Johnny Basham W 3 Joe Attwood (Can)
Pte. Tierney (Aust) W 3 Sgt. Lawless (NZ)
Cal Delaney (USN) W 3 A.M. Swinnerton (US)
Johnny Basham W 3 Pte. Tierney (Aust)
Johnny Basham W 3 Cal Delaney (USN) Championship Bout
Lightweight
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Richie Mitchell (US)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Cpl. Green (SA)
George Gamester W3 Eddie Shannon (US)
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Jimmy Clarke (Can.)
Sgt. Miller (Aust.) W3 RFN Gunn (NZ)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 George Gamester
Seaman A. Smith (RN) W3 Sgt. Miller (Aust.)
Jack "Dusty" Miller (BA) W3 Seaman A. Smith (RN) Championship Bout
Featherweight
Cpl. Bingham (Can) W3 Tommy Spearman (NZ)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Cpl. Bingham (Can)
Tom Evans (BA) W3 Ernie Proudlove (RAF)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) W3 Seaman Davis (RN)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Tom Evans (BA)
Eddie Coulon (US Army) KO2 Nipper Peakes (Aust.)
Young Chaney (USN) W3 Eddie Coulon (US Army) Championship Bout
Bantamweight
Pal Moore (US Navy) W3 A.B. Patten (RN)
Johnny Hughes (ENG) W3 Sapper Benson (NZ)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Joe Lynch (US)
Digger Evans (AUS) W3 Pte. Jones(CAN)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Johnny Hughes (RAF)
Jimmy Wilde (Wales) W3 Digger Evans (AUS)
Pal Moore (USN) W3 Jimmy Wilde (Wales) Championship Bout
Flyweight
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte. Aylott (Aust.)
Joe Percival (Eng) KO2 Pte. Sims (Can)
Groves (RAF) W3 Pte Callender (US)
Stephens (RN) W3 Goves
KO Brown (US) W3 Joe Percival
KO Brown W3 Stephens Championship
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Look at Harry Greb's record. His are included. Could be other fighters, didn't look at any more. Why the exclusion? The fights are documented or you wouldn't have them. Could be a mix between pro and amateur. But, how can you include and exclude on a selective basis. If the combatants are identified as professionals shouldn't they be included? If amateurs (both fighters) excluded? If one is an amateur, is the bout legitimate for the professional? Or should a note be put on the record? Maybe exclusion altogether or "special category"? Remember you had tournaments like these during ww1 and ww2. I believe Gene Tunney would be a WW1 example. Interesting dilemma. Well Ollie, it's another fine mess you've gotten us into.
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Greb's listings are not listed as EX (exhibitions) they are listed as NC (no contest). They are part of his bout total.
Aside from that. Look at the George Ring bout and add up Greb's losses and you will find that Army bout is included in his professional record. If you want to look at another, you can look at Bombadier Billy Wells. Gene Tunney was the American Expeditionary Force champion, in France.
Aside from that. Look at the George Ring bout and add up Greb's losses and you will find that Army bout is included in his professional record. If you want to look at another, you can look at Bombadier Billy Wells. Gene Tunney was the American Expeditionary Force champion, in France.
GEEZE! I created a frankenfurter! These fights were NOT pro fights; they were exhibitions for the troops.
They should NOT be included in the pro records. Same for the military bouts for the AEF championships (ie Tunney); the Inter-Allied Championships, and the WW II bouts -- Ezzard Charles, amopng others won "titles" of the Inter-Allied Bouts, as did Marcel Cerdan.
They should NOT be included in the pro records. Same for the military bouts for the AEF championships (ie Tunney); the Inter-Allied Championships, and the WW II bouts -- Ezzard Charles, amopng others won "titles" of the Inter-Allied Bouts, as did Marcel Cerdan.
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Now you did it Mike. Pandora is out of her box again. You warned them with your original disclaimer. I thought this debate was settled over 50 years ago. Unfortunately, I see these bouts sneaking back in because they happened between two professionals. The reasons for not including the fights far outweigh reasons for inclusion. This is one time I personally believe we ought to "let a sleeping dog lie". If the boxing historians don't they will have to revisit every one of the bouts, again, and rule on validity. If someone questions one of the bouts, in the future, tell them the result, if available, and say it is a non-accredited military bout and not accepted as a legitimate professional contest. Better yet, burn every single available record and pretend they didn't happen.