Best white boxer of all time?

[granberry]

Yeah, but don't forget, according to Granberry, Young and Shavers were "under instruction" to lose.

Show me where I said that, Collins.

Do you read with difficulty

or just like to make things up?

Young beat the sh*t out of Ali for 15 rounds. He didn't lose a round.

Herbert Muhammed, Ali's manager, left the arena before the decision was given, because he knew Ali lost.

[Collins2000]

Yeah, but don't forget, according to Granberry, Young and Shavers were "under instruction" to lose.

Show me where I said that, Collins.

Do you read with difficulty

or just like to make things up?

Young beat the sh*t out of Ali for 15 rounds. He didn't lose a round.

Herbert Muhammed, Ali's manager, left the arena before the decision was given, because he knew Ali lost.

Maybe it wasn't you, Granberry. Someone said Shavers and Young were told not to try too hard and that these were 'half-arranged' fights (whatever that may mean).

I can't be bothered going back over all the posts so I'll take your word for it that you didn't say that and apologise.

Sorry.

You don't remember who did say it, do you?

[Collins2000]

Cranberry, maybe I read too much into your posts in the Cooper torn glove thread.

What exactly did you mean by:

The Shavers-Ali fight was what is called half-arranged fight.
EVERY TIME Shavers clobbered Ali he then would not follow up.

or this gem from the same thread:

It was obvious that Shavers was not following up after he clobbered Ali. Over and over. Anyone who saw the fight could see that.
I remember Young Gene Buffalo describing that fight as an obvious example of a "half-arranged" fight.

Ali was at Jimmy Young's mercy in the 13th, 14th, 15th rounds of their fight.

Watch as Young hits Ali with a right hand, then lets him recover.
Repeatedly. One time as Ali suddenly backed away, showing he was hurt by a right hand, Young came forward and threw a sham right hand two feet off to the side of Ali's head, so that the stupid people watching would think he was trying to hit Ali again.

So, are you saying those fights were fixed or not? If not, can you explain what you are trying to say cos it isn't clear at all.

[Thunder and Lightning]

Well Terap, I notice you dont deny your identity... I advise you to be more respectful in future, otherwise I may have to get you banned all over again matey.... 8)

Can you realy do this

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Cranberry, maybe I read too much into your posts in the Cooper torn glove thread.

What exactly did you mean by:

The Shavers-Ali fight was what is called half-arranged fight.
EVERY TIME Shavers clobbered Ali he then would not follow up.

or this gem from the same thread:

It was obvious that Shavers was not following up after he clobbered Ali. Over and over. Anyone who saw the fight could see that.
I remember Young Gene Buffalo describing that fight as an obvious example of a "half-arranged" fight.

Ali was at Jimmy Young's mercy in the 13th, 14th, 15th rounds of their fight. Watch as Young hits Ali with a right hand, then lets him recover.
Repeatedly. One time as Ali suddenly backed away, showing he was hurt by a right hand, Young came forward and threw a sham right hand two feet off to the side of Ali's head, so that the stupid people watching would think he was trying to hit Ali again.

So, are you saying those fights were fixed or not? If not, can you explain what you are trying to say cos it isn't clear at all.

That's a crock of shit as the youtube attests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwGPnie ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5NSX5nq ... re=related

Ali was the aggressor...We can debate how effectively aggressive he was...

[tennessee]

charley white was easily the best white fighter of all time. he was a hard punching lightweight with a booming left hook.

[elmersalsa]

Willie Pep, no doubt!

[p4p1]

Willie Pep, no doubt!

that was gonna be my suggestiom

[Jaclem]

....lots of great fighters mentioned ..... the first one i thought of was willie pep...

it's been a long time since i first entered on this topic, so after i made this post i checked back to see who i picked then,,and it was willie pep...and again, i'd like to throw mickey walker's name into the mix..

[Diamond WEAPON]

It's funny how a thread about white fighters suddenly turned into another pro-con Ali debate. Willie Pep is the obvious choice, and is essentially the highest ranked white fighter on every boxing expert's P4P list.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Some Questions:

Are Ali and Young fighting it out for the title of best white boxer of all time? Were they part of the famous fighting Minstrel Troop and their real names are Hank Smith and Jimmy O'Oirish?

Is Granberry correct in that Young seems to be only famous for ducking his head out of the ropes?

Should one call for a ban just because they disagree with a person?

Is Silkov's 'real' head yellow, perfectly round and comprised off a limited number of expressions that can only be grasped via broadband?

Why is no one mentioning Joe Calzaghe as best white fighter of all time? He beat Jeff Lacy and Jeff is the best fighter ever!

If Ali was white Granny wouldn't bag on him so much...


:(

[donnellon]

Was Monzon not white?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Was Monzon not white?

Why did someone say Jews weren't white?

It's a religion, not a race...

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Harry Greb or Jack Dempsey? Not sure it close between those 2 for me. Any challengers.

Stanley Ketchell
Rocky Marciano
Benny Leonard
Willie Pep
Mickey Walker
Pascual Perez
Nicolino Locche
Carlos Monzon
Eder Jofre
and more ...

[overhand]

He probably should have said caucasian.

indeed.

Or WASP As for the Jewish one, they live in Diaspora, accroding to Toranic scripture they are from the Eastern hemisphere and would be unlikely to have ginger hair and freckles.

I am not a huge fan of Jack Dempsey. Benny Leonard, from what I see, is the type of fighter who makes me think: "I'd like to be able to box like that." Yes, I know he may be be classed as 'white'.

I'm surprised no one has brought up Gerry Quarry, isn't he tied with Vitali for top rank?

Well I dont know. I have a Jewish neighbour and thats exactly how he looks. And I can tell you he is milk white. I dont know how the Jews in your region look like but here in France they are all white.

-as for the the best white/caucasian fighter I nominate Marciano. Big punch, stamina, ability to come back from behind and carried lethal knock out power in the late rounds.

Cheers

[man]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Marciano i thought he would be the prime target huh each day you learn something new.

it was not obvious, but he was of ... chinese origin.

[overhand]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Marciano i thought he would be the prime target huh each day you learn something new.

it was not obvious, but he was of ... chinese origin.

Wherent his parents Italian? -or was that sarcasm?

[man]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Marciano i thought he would be the prime target huh each day you learn something new.

it was not obvious, but he was of ... chinese origin.

Wherent his parents Italian? -or was that sarcasm?

yes. it was sarcasm. ... a little.

[Jaclem]

..man....i once wrote a book that was a parody of the "believe it or not" books and said "john l. sullivan's middle name was louise" and got a lot of mail either "correcting" me or how strange that was for he-man like him.

that was along time ago. I am no longer surprised by anything.

[I Feel Fine]

I think its clearly Greb. You look at his resume and its just a list inundated with big names and big wins. He's arguably the greatest fighter of all time, let alone greatest white fighter.

[man]

I think its clearly Greb. You look at his resume and its just a list inundated with big names and big wins. He's arguably the greatest fighter of all time, let alone greatest white fighter.

you are entitled to your opinion. i just would like to
dispute the "clearly" in your statement since rocky
marciano (49-0) used to walk on this planet and if
i recall correctly the italians count as "white". or are
we here in some arian-type discussion thing and i
am just missing the real point.

[man]

..man....i once wrote a book that was a parody of the "believe it or not" books and said "john l. sullivan's middle name was louise" and got a lot of mail either "correcting" me or how strange that was for he-man like him.

that was along time ago. I am no longer surprised by anything.

i could believe that louis"e" is originally french and therefore
not so surprising. maybe his mother wanted some nobless"e" ...

[TheGoods]

Balboa on the strength of the Drago win. Fair enough Rocko's record was so-so in major fights before his crackerjack display against Laing. But he was a different animal afetr that fight. His whole mindset changed. He grew the beard and chopped the logs. Drago was a straight out monster fighting on HOME soil. But The Eyetie Stallion would not be denied. The fact that he got involved in the unlicenced game after his career ended should not impact on his legacy. Balboa for me.

[I Feel Fine]

I think its clearly Greb. You look at his resume and its just a list inundated with big names and big wins. He's arguably the greatest fighter of all time, let alone greatest white fighter.

you are entitled to your opinion. i just would like to
dispute the "clearly" in your statement since rocky
marciano (49-0) used to walk on this planet and if
i recall correctly the italians count as "white". or are
we here in some arian-type discussion thing and i
am just missing the real point.

I, in fact, am Italian, and Harry Greb is clearly the greatest white fighter of all time, if not the greatest over all fighter of all time. If I had to pick a #2, it would be Pep, not Marciano.

[raylawpc]

I think its clearly Greb. You look at his resume and its just a list inundated with big names and big wins. He's arguably the greatest fighter of all time, let alone greatest white fighter.

you are entitled to your opinion. i just would like to
dispute the "clearly" in your statement since rocky
marciano (49-0) used to walk on this planet and if
i recall correctly the italians count as "white". or are
we here in some arian-type discussion thing and i
am just missing the real point.

I, in fact, am Italian, and Harry Greb is clearly the greatest white fighter of all time, if not the greatest over all fighter of all time. If I had to pick a #2, it would be Pep, not Marciano.

Why is it clear that Greb is the greatest white fighter?