WHAT AMATEUR BOXER.........?

[CoreyWash]

what amateur boxer has the fastest hands?
what amateur boxer has the most devastating punch?
these are current amateur boxers by the way..and i would prefer it be the USA we're talkin about because idk a whole lot of non-american amateur boxers..


to me the fastest i can think of is rau'shee, but i havent seen too many others for me to make a better choice..

most devastating-i have no clue..

your opinions please..

[boxmel]

Since there are over 20,000 registered amateur boxers, it would be really hard to answer your questions, Corey. Among the Olympians, Rau'shee would stand out with the fastest hands. I don't know if any "power" testing was done at the OTC this year, but Jeff Lacey was tested as an amateur and had the hardest punch.

[Canada]

Most devastating punch= Jeremiah Graziano

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Actually, I heard that our team was tested and Wilder and Russell had the hardest punches. Wilder #1 and Russell #2 when they were tested in Colorado. I read it several times. I'll see if I can find the articles. . .If you've seen these two in person, that doesn't surprise me.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I haven't seen an amateur with FASTER and MORE ACCURATE punches than Warren. When I watch his combinations in slow motion, they appear to be well-placed and dead on. Pretty remarkable.

[Gray-Fox]

Raushee is quick, but I think he is too quick for his own good sometimes.

[CoreyWash]

canada u made me think..ive seen graziano all over youtube, but at ringside i was able to catch nearly all of his fights and from all the fighters i've seen in person graziano prolly is the most devastating in my eyes..i've never really seen wilder so i cant say much about him..and cullen i read it somewhere too where russell had the 2nd best punch behind deontay wilder..

[DCAmateurBoxing]

From Sport's Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/o ... index.html
"Wilder could use more amateur bouts to hone his skills, but his punishing power -- in a test prior to the Olympics, his jab measured stronger than all but one other U.S. boxer's power punch -- may ensure this is his last Olympics"

Couldn't find the other mention, but it also referred to these test they did in Colorado for all the Olympic boxers. If anyone has that information, that would be interesting to see how everyone compared. If it is true that Wilder's jab was harder than ALL BUT ONE OF THE OTHER BOXERS power punches, that explains a lot. I saw him hurt opponents with punches that didn't seem (from the comfort of my couch) that hard. I said before that I think he is ten times stronger than he looks. Test data may support that too.

[JMac]

From Sport's Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/o ... index.html
"Wilder could use more amateur bouts to hone his skills, but his punishing power -- in a test prior to the Olympics, his jab measured stronger than all but one other U.S. boxer's power punch -- may ensure this is his last Olympics"

Couldn't find the other mention, but it also referred to these test they did in Colorado for all the Olympic boxers. If anyone has that information, that would be interesting to see how everyone compared. If it is true that Wilder's jab was harder than ALL BUT ONE OF THE OTHER BOXERS power punches, that explains a lot. I saw him hurt opponents with punches that didn't seem (from the comfort of my couch) that hard. I said before that I think he is ten times stronger than he looks. Test data may support that too.

Yes they have a heavybag at the OTC that is wired up and can measure the power of punches. Campbell told me tha Wilder's jab tested stronger than anybodys power punches.

[Canada]

WOW . Wilder is a freak. In the good sort of way of course

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Yes they have a heavybag at the OTC that is wired up and can measure the power of punches. Campbell told me tha Wilder's jab tested stronger than anybodys power punches.

The good thing about Deontay is that he doesn't have a lot of "miles" in the sport, he's freakishly strong and seems really eager and willing to LISTEN. If he gets with the right team, he can do well as a pro. A 6'7" cruiserweight with power!!!

[squarering]

As I have seen in the gym many boxers that can generate significant power on the bag have a difficult time connecting that power to an opponent that is moving and punching. Hence the testing bag in Co is only a partial indicator. When you factor in proper angle and targeting and timing, the hardest hitter may not even be one of the top boxers on the Tech Bag. Quaid Mohamed was so strong on mitts that I though he hitt harder that the light heavyweight. His punches actually hurt my shoulder and jolted me, but in the ring he had problems connecting with it. On the other hand Robert Mariquan worked clean and sharp but not with devastating power, , at least until he got in the ring.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I personally do not believe anyone can be TESTED with their punching power as Jeff Lacy and other olympians were that time...punching power depends on the result it has on what it hits...Jeff supposedly hit harder than heavyweights but he often didnt KO 168 pounders...I would have to think of Rahman, Tua etc landed a decent shot on a 168 pounder they would sleep...punching power is demonstrated by the effect it has on a target... the target, a human being, would get knocked out by the best shots of a big puncher. Take a guy that scores a ridiculously high number on the test and put him in the ring....does that automatically mean he will get Tommy Hearns-Bob Foster results? No way

[squarering]

I agree Ice, When tested in Co. they said that Brian Villaria was the hardest hitter on the team. I can't remember the acutal force he recorded but it was up there with the heavier weights. With a record of 22-2 with 13 kos Something don't add up. They should donate that bag to the Cuban National team ( if they had a place to plug it in) then just ask sparring partners who hits harder. It' s way more accurate.

[Dennis]

Gary Russell can punch and has fast hands, but I had a hard time believing that he hit 2nd hardest on the team. A 119# boxer(well someone who used to box at 119#) hitting like a 165 or 178 pounder is unfathomable.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I personally do not believe anyone can be TESTED with their punching power as Jeff Lacy and other olympians were that time...punching power depends on the result it has on what it hits...Jeff supposedly hit harder than heavyweights but he often didnt KO 168 pounders...I would have to think of Rahman, Tua etc landed a decent shot on a 168 pounder they would sleep...punching power is demonstrated by the effect it has on a target... the target, a human being, would get knocked out by the best shots of a big puncher. Take a guy that scores a ridiculously high number on the test and put him in the ring....does that automatically mean he will get Tommy Hearns-Bob Foster results? No way

I think it's just a relative test, John. Just like the 40 yard dash in football. There are many football players that wouldn't run a "good" 40 when timed, but no one could ever catch them on the field during a game. Despite that fact, NCAA/NFL teams still use it along with the vertical jump, broad jump, bench press, etc to help gauge football players against each other and to also measure improvement. A punch test (measure lbs. per square inch I believe) will never be the true meausure of strength that is used during a bout because of all the variables that come into play, but I think it is a valid tool to gauge boxers against each other and maybe more importantly to gauge improvement of strength over a period of time.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Gary Russell can punch and has fast hands, but I had a hard time believing that he hit 2nd hardest on the team. A 119# boxer(well someone who used to box at 119#) hitting like a 165 or 178 pounder is unfathomable.

I would completely agree with you if I didn't see him sparring with boxers bigger than 165lbs. with my own eyes. It isn't that unfathomable to me. I know that were talking about boxing, but it really comes down the physics of the sport. Force = (Mass) x (Acceleration) in physics, but in boxing it involves some other variables like leverage and torque. I found this interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehvwjNUUW1o. It talks about the force behind a blow around the 1:20 mark. Sort of explains why some smaller people can generate a lot more power that stronger larger people. I know this is boxing, but Bruce Lee's punching power was legendary and well-documented even though he was about 135lbs. in his prime.

I'm still trying to find out more details on that test. I will ask one of the Olympic coaches about it when I see him and post what he says.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

DC, if Gary could really and truly punch as hard as 165 pounders he would be ANNIHALATING all 119 pounders and would be smashing some of the 165 pounders in the gym, too...in real fight circumstances I just dont see any good punching 119 doing ANYTHING to a 165 pounder. And having those tests as a gague....a gague of what exactly? I mean, if they dont realistically measure the punching power a guy would carry into a real ring...then what good is it???

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I know this is boxing, but Bruce Lee's punching power was legendary and well-documented even though he was about 135lbs. in his prime.

I know of Bruce's rep as well but, can u honestly say that you have ever seen him KO anyone? His rep his huge but the proof of his status is nothing but hearsay. I'll put it this way..if the hardest punching guy at 126 (Marquez maybe?) fought against a legit super middleweight I dont think his power would gain much respect from them

[DCAmateurBoxing]

DC, if Gary could really and truly punch as hard as 165 pounders he would be ANNIHALATING all 119 pounders and would be smashing some of the 165 pounders in the gym, too...in real fight circumstances I just dont see any good punching 119 doing ANYTHING to a 165 pounder. And having those tests as a gague....a gague of what exactly? I mean, if they dont realistically measure the punching power a guy would carry into a real ring...then what good is it???

Let me say that I'm not saying he hits as hard as a fellow 165lbs Olympian. I was just pointing out that a test that measures punching power is still a useful test. It is a gauge of strength. I was also giving credence to the fact that size isn't the only factor to power - scientifically speaking. What good is 40 yard dash time that NFL teams use before spending tens of millions of dollars if the guy they time can't seem to run past safeties in a game when he actually plays an NFL game. They won't really know how he'll do based on his NCAA career right? But they have to use some kind of measurement. You can get "real NFL game circumstances" for a college player before you actually sign him either, but they don't say "what good is testing him" because it won't tell us how he'll play. I don't think professional sports teams would spend millions of dollars on athletes that haven't been in an actual competition at the professional level based on tests that 'mean nothing'. These sports franchises obviously feel that the test are valid and valuable. The reality is nothing is going to measure what a boxer does in the ring, except being in the ring, right? Nothing is going to measure what an athlete does in any sport like the actual competition, but all sports have measurement test for the reasons I state (growth and relative measurement to other athletes). In baseball - it's MPH, in football - it's the 40 yard dash time, in basketball - it's the vertical and shuttle run, in golf - it's how far you can drive the ball.

The other benefit IMO of a punching power measurement is to measure how much harder a boxer's punch gets over a period of time during training. Without quantifying the starting point, you can't measure improvement unless you going to go my your eyes or how much harder a punch sounds or asking his sparring partner "Is he hitting harder?".

As far as the 119lbs. doing "ANYTHING" with a 165lbs., I'm just telling you what I saw that's all - firsthand. Was he in their with Andrade? No. But according to you, the simple size of a 165lbs. would prevent a 119lbs. from phasing him at all. I'm telling you I saw different.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I know this is boxing, but Bruce Lee's punching power was legendary and well-documented even though he was about 135lbs. in his prime.

I know of Bruce's rep as well but, can u honestly say that you have ever seen him KO anyone? His rep his huge but the proof of his status is nothing but hearsay. I'll put it this way..if the hardest punching guy at 126 (Marquez maybe?) fought against a legit super middleweight I dont think his power would gain much respect from them

There is almost no video of Bruce Lee in action, especially competing. There have been eyewitness accounts of him competing in western boxing, but no video. There are a lot of legends that don't have video proof either. Earl Manigault is called the best playground basketball player to every live. Any video. Nope? How many people say this is true, too many NBA Hall of Famers to count that played with him.

My only point in mentioning Bruce Lee was that physics does work and size doesn't always equal force or power.

Found interesting articles here:
http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=12995
http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php ... =80&page=1

As far as the Marquez scenario. . .Now, you're talking about professional boxers. Is that a fair comparison to amateur?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I was just giving an example in Marquez...but at the end of the day I feel that a supposed gague of punching power is useless for many reasons, the main one being that it is very misleading. The resiliancy of an oppoents chin is a HUGE factor in determining a guy and his punching power. There were people that said Jeff Lacy hit as hard as heavyweights... I mean is there a heavywight on earth he can match? Sure. But they were comparing him to top PRO heavies...ridiculous...Jeff is a big hitter but he wouldnt KO top heavies. I am sure gary put it on some big guys in the gym...I had a 125 who used to destroy novice heavies all the time. I am just saying that no matter how hard he hits he couldnt hit hard enough to faze a 165 who was a legit guy. We all have our opinions, I just feel that there is no punch meter or anything that can truly measure punching power. Another big reason is that it cant measure how tired a guy is, how warm he is, how much his adrenaline is pumping, what his chin resiliancy is etc etc etc etc.

The best way in my eyes to test punching power is to count how many people fall to the floor when he hits them.

[Dennis]

I'm going to have to side with Scully on this one. He has been in the ring against many guys over the years and has experienced it first hand. I'm a big guy and have sparred against all sizes of boxers. When I just lightly hit the small guys, they complain that I'm hitting too hard. It has to do with the mass of the boxer throwing the punch. Top guys that weigh only 130-147 pounds just don't faze top heavyweights, but the heavies sure do faze the smaller boxers. Some big punching middleweights might hit as hard as some light punching heavies but average heavies hit harder. That doesn't mean that some 165# guys can give it to a 201+ guy. That has to do with hand and foot speed and skills more than punching power.

[Gray-Fox]

The ICEMAN knows what he's talking about.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I was just giving an example in Marquez...but at the end of the day I feel that a supposed gague of punching power is useless for many reasons, the main one being that it is very misleading. The resiliancy of an oppoents chin is a HUGE factor in determining a guy and his punching power. There were people that said Jeff Lacy hit as hard as heavyweights... I mean is there a heavywight on earth he can match? Sure. But they were comparing him to top PRO heavies...ridiculous...Jeff is a big hitter but he wouldnt KO top heavies. I am sure gary put it on some big guys in the gym...I had a 125 who used to destroy novice heavies all the time. I am just saying that no matter how hard he hits he couldnt hit hard enough to faze a 165 who was a legit guy. We all have our opinions, I just feel that there is no punch meter or anything that can truly measure punching power. Another big reason is that it cant measure how tired a guy is, how warm he is, how much his adrenaline is pumping, what his chin resiliancy is etc etc etc etc.

The best way in my eyes to test punching power is to count how many people fall to the floor when he hits them.

I agree, it doesn't translate to what happens during competition. I thought I was clear on that, but if you have a boxer that wants to get more power on his shots and you give him a regimen - is the only gauge of whether or not it's working going to be asking his sparring partners or seeing if they "look" harder? That is where we disagree, but to each his own. Sometimes, I think we tend to dismiss using modern technology to our advantage and this is an example IMO of how it can help training. It is like trying to improve on running, without using a stopwatch. Without measuring exactly, how do you know your doing better or how you compare to others? Does that mean if you run a certain time in training, you are going to do the same in a race? No. There are a lot of other variables that you can't control - but the stopwatch DOES have a place in training. Again, IMO.