"Two Ton" Tony Galento

[boxingchick]

I was on vacation and was looking for a good beach read-I came across a book titled "Two Ton; One Fight, One Night; Tony Galento V Joe Louis" I remembered seeing highlights of this fight and was intrigued. What a colorful character he was :"I'll moida da bum" was his all too famous quote. This is a guy who once bet $10 he could eat 50 hot dogs before a heavyweight match-won the bet AND the fight. This is a guy who rarely trained yet had a very long and colorful boxing career. I can't even imagine such a fighter in todays world. I would like to start a discussion thread- questions up for discussion. Has there ever been such a boxer since (at that upper level of competition)? Could such a fighter be at that level today? If he trained properly- could he have been a champion? Obviously- he made an impact because of the fighters that he took on- he was a street fighter (and a dirty one at that) who took it to the next level. Discuss...

[Tantum]

This is a guy who once bet $10 he could eat 50 hot dogs before a heavyweight match-won the bet AND the fight. I can't even imagine such a fighter in todays world.

I can

[Diamond WEAPON]

This is a guy who once bet $10 he could eat 50 hot dogs before a heavyweight match-won the bet AND the fight. I can't even imagine such a fighter in todays world.

I can

Yup, exactly. Galento was just a tough guy with pretty good but limited skills and enough power that he could give trouble to the world class fighters of his time. James Toney is definitely more skilled, but then I believe he'd have to be as I think someone like Galento could be massacred early by some of today's big punchers, while Toney's excellent chin and defense essentially save him from such a fate.

Aside from that little comparison Butterbean is somewhat of a similar fighter in today's world as far as being a fat tough guy with a punch and little else, only difference is although he had a couple impressive W's in his prime against solid journeyman, he was never gonna do anything at the World Class level.

Nowadays and since the mid-80's there have been a pretty good amount of fatties who had pretty good skills/techniques and/or power that allowed them to be relatively competitive at the World Class level. Corrie Sanders was typical of that even though he wasn't exceptionally fat, just a fleshy "average joe" type physique, or Danny Williams, whose weight issues have taken on epic proportions. Then of course there's the trio of an old George Foreman, old Larry Holmes, and Riddick Bowe, all of whom would come into the ring with flab often or on occasion and yet they were still great fighters on the World level.

Chris Arreola and Alexander Povetkin are pretty chubby HWs as well, yet both are at least fringe top 10 material in the current HW scene.

[dempseyfire]

Galento was much better than Butterbean . . he had a very good chin, decent (not very good mind you) ring skills (fought from a crouch, good feinter) and kept up a work-rate which would essentially wear out most current Heavyweights for at least 6 rounds. He'd most likely lose to Klitschko as Wlad would keep the distance vs the cruder Tony and probably avoid any bombs (but one left hook would take Wlad spark out). I think he would have a good chance of taking out any of the easier to find Povetkin, Chagaev, Haye, Ruiz etc. But on any given night he could be flatter and lose a decision.

[boxingchick]

Butterbean rarely goes past 4 rounds- Galento had most of his career in 10 rounders. Actually- Butterbean was one who did come into my mind also. I will say that the book on Galento brought a smile on my face and took me back to an era of boxing that was before my time. There was another story where he used to fight without a mouth guard- caught an uppercut and bit his tongue in half- continued to fight and won on points. Later he was stitched up in a hospital and took off against doctors orders. The doctor tracked him down drinking at a local bar to find his stitches had loosened and needed to be redone- Tony refused to leave and made the doctor stitch him up right there at the bar (without anesthetic). Definitely a guy who lived life on his own terms.

[Robinson]

BC,
Their is a thread not that old, which goes into alot about Tony Galento.

Apparently Galento can beat most modern fighters and has better technique
than many of the post Ali HW's.

Good thread to have a read of, as I learned alot of about Galento, who I
know feel is one of the sports most talented yet under appreciated
fighters.

Ill see if I can dig the thread up.

[Diamond WEAPON]

The Butterbean reference was meant more as a way of saying a fat bald white guy who can fight is very appealing to the general public, because frankly, it gives fat guys, balding guys, and white guys (or any combination thereof) everywhere some hope and inspiration, not every fighter can be a super-cut anatomy-chart looking adonis of athleticism.

[dempseyfire]

BC,
Their is a thread not that old, which goes into alot about Tony Galento.

Apparently Galento can beat most modern fighters and has better technique
than many of the post Ali HW's.

Good thread to have a read of, as I learned alot of about Galento, who I
know feel is one of the sports most talented yet under appreciated
fighters.

Ill see if I can dig the thread up.

Shame if you're referring to me! :)

Galento definitely did not have 'better technique' than most post-Ali HWs. What I have said is that Galento's skill-level was better than it's often summarized.

Tony could beat some top modern HWs who were technically superior just as he did guys in his time who had superior technique and were much superior boxers (Nathan Mann, Otis Thomas, Lou Nova)
Via his aggression, incredible durability, extremely rough and often dirty tactics, and no-joke one-punch knockout power in his left hook.

I can also see Galento losing to many modern guys via his flaws like he did in the 1930s . . . crude technique, openness to counters, and often suspect conditioning.

[I Feel Fine]

Watching a prime Louis wobbled by Galento in the first and then dropped by him in the third makes you wonder what a Dempsey or Liston or Frazier or Tyson left hook would have done to him. Louis stated that his plan had been to carry Galento into the late rounds and punish him for all his trash talking prior to the fight, but he had to abandon that plan when Galento started hurting him. Not Louis' best night.

[Robinson]

:)

[Diamond WEAPON]

Watching a prime Louis wobbled by Galento in the first and then dropped by him in the third makes you wonder what a Dempsey or Liston or Frazier or Tyson left hook would have done to him. Louis stated that his plan had been to carry Galento into the late rounds and punish him for all his trash talking prior to the fight, but he had to abandon that plan when Galento started hurting him. Not Louis' best night.

Yeah, that's where the trouble of trying to compare fighters from different eras. I think a number of less accomplished more recent HWs could've beaten Louis but Louis is easily one of the most dominant and accomplished HWs ever era-4-era

[Robinson]

I think Louis got floored because he was in some was confident that
Galento had nothing. And wham....that chunk of ham he calls a fist
put the brown bomber on his backside and Galento secures his place
in history.

It is safe to say that had Louis been going in against a Dempsey, Tyson
etc he would have trained accordingly. Being KD by Galento and getting
up with a vengence is less tarnishing than say being KO'd 1 by a
Jim Flynn.

[dempseyfire]

Watching a prime Louis wobbled by Galento in the first and then dropped by him in the third makes you wonder what a Dempsey or Liston or Frazier or Tyson left hook would have done to him. Louis stated that his plan had been to carry Galento into the late rounds and punish him for all his trash talking prior to the fight, but he had to abandon that plan when Galento started hurting him. Not Louis' best night.

Well what do you know, more Louis hate from IFF right on cue.

Ali was much more hurt vs the lighter hitting Cooper, but I won't parade threads saying "imagine what Tyson or Dempsey would have done" . .

Louis was stopped twice in 68 fights, once when he was 21 vs a 30 year old knockout hitter who was an ex-champion in a great competitive fight and then at the tale end of his career vs Rocky Marciano. Along with the way he took flush shots from both Baer brothers, Galento, Walcott etc. and survived. He proved to have a very good chin, as did Ali.

Vs Louis got caught flush with a perfect counter shot, didn't 'wobble' at all (he got caught off-balance in the 1st), got up completly clear-headed, and beat the CRAP out of Galento until the stoppage.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I'm not convinced Galento can beat Esch and the fact that we can even speculate about it shows Galento is every bit the circus act Esch is and was...

[I Feel Fine]

Dempseyfire... Louis hate? Do you associate scrutiny with hatred? I don't hate Louis, but he wasn't perfect or unbeatable, as some of his hardcore fans seem to believe.

Where does Ali come into it? Odd. Either way, if you want to defend Louis' chin go right ahead, but I don't think you want to be doing it by comparing it to Ali's chin. Sure, Clay at that age of 21 got knocked down and hurt pretty bad by Cooper. I'm certain that posters on this forum need to be reminded of that again. And while Louis at that same age was KO'd by Schmeling, Schmeling was certainly much better than Cooper. Goes without saying. But after that, as they went on, Ali took flush left hooks from guys like Liston, Frazier, Quarry and flush right hands from guys like Foreman, Shavers and Norton. People talk a lot about Ali's four knock downs, two of which came before his 20th pro fight and one of which was questionable, but Louis was knocked down ten times in his career, and three of them came in his prime. And Louis wasn't getting dropped by Joe Frazier type fighters in those three fights, he was getting dropped by former Light Heavyweight Braddock who was no huge puncher, a relatively unimpressive fighter in Buddy Baer who I'm certain didn't hit as hard as Shavers, and of course the greatly skilled Galento who I'm positive was not as technically skilled as Folley and not much harder hitting than Lyle. And Louis was still champion when Walcott dropped him three times in two fights. Certainly Walcott could hit, and being dropped by him does not say that you have a bad chin, look at Marciano, but, still, getting dropped by him three times doesn't look great either, at least in comparison to Ali.

And that's quite the point. No one has said that Louis had a bad chin. I think he had an average chin for a Heavyweight champion, and I've said so in the past. But if he could be caught cold in the early rounds by a guy like Galento -and as a two year reigning champion in his prime, not just when he's 21 and relatively inexperienced, which is a bit different- then that raises questions about how he would fare if it was Dempsey or Liston who were catching him early. Dempsey and Liston are not letting him off the hook.

And, no, Galento wobbled Louis in the first round. Pretty clear. Many other fighters also wobbled Louis, which is another point, its not just about knock downs. Farr wobbled him a few times, Light Heavyweight Conn (mind you, not 'former' Light Heavyweight, he was listed as 174 lbs for the fight and even that weight was a tad exaggerated to help sell the match) wobbled him badly, Mauriello supposedly did, I haven't seen that one, Charles had him badly hurt in the late rounds. These are not big Heavyweight punchers.

[dempseyfire]

I'm not convinced Galento can beat Esch and the fact that we can even speculate about it shows Galento is every bit the circus act Esch is and was...

Or widespread ignorance . . . .

[dempseyfire]

Dempseyfire... Louis hate? Do you associate scrutiny with hatred? I don't hate Louis, but he wasn't perfect or unbeatable, as some of his hardcore fans seem to believe.

Where does Ali come into it? Odd. Either way, if you want to defend Louis' chin go right ahead, but I don't think you want to be doing it by comparing it to Ali's chin. Sure, Clay at that age of 21 got knocked down and hurt pretty bad by Cooper. I'm certain that posters on this forum need to be reminded of that again. And while Louis at that same age was KO'd by Schmeling, Schmeling was certainly much better than Cooper. Goes without saying. But after that, as they went on, Ali took flush left hooks from guys like Liston, Frazier, Quarry and flush right hands from guys like Foreman, Shavers and Norton. People talk a lot about Ali's four knock downs, two of which came before his 20th pro fight and one of which was questionable, but Louis was knocked down ten times in his career, and three of them came in his prime. And Louis wasn't getting dropped by Joe Frazier type fighters in those three fights, he was getting dropped by former Light Heavyweight Braddock who was no huge puncher, a relatively unimpressive fighter in Buddy Baer who I'm certain didn't hit as hard as Shavers, and of course the greatly skilled Galento who I'm positive was not as technically skilled as Folley and not much harder hitting than Lyle. And Louis was still champion when Walcott dropped him three times in two fights. Certainly Walcott could hit, and being dropped by him does not say that you have a bad chin, look at Marciano, but, still, getting dropped by him three times doesn't look great either, at least in comparison to Ali.

And that's quite the point. No one has said that Louis had a bad chin. I think he had an average chin for a Heavyweight champion, and I've said so in the past. But if he could be caught cold in the early rounds by a guy like Galento -and as a two year reigning champion in his prime, not just when he's 21 and relatively inexperienced, which is a bit different- then that raises questions about how he would fare if it was Dempsey or Liston who were catching him early. Dempsey and Liston are not letting him off the hook.

And, no, Galento wobbled Louis in the first round. Pretty clear. Many other fighters also wobbled Louis, which is another point, its not just about knock downs. Farr wobbled him a few times, Light Heavyweight Conn (mind you, not 'former' Light Heavyweight, he was listed as 174 lbs for the fight and even that weight was a tad exaggerated to help sell the match) wobbled him badly, Mauriello supposedly did, I haven't seen that one, Charles had him badly hurt in the late rounds. These are not big Heavyweight punchers.

Farr 'wobbled' Louis? When?

A 'peak' Ali was caught flush several times by Chuvalo and at 29-31 years old was wobbled by Bonavena and Norton . . so the ship sails both ways.

And how the hell do you know Lyle and Shavers hit harder than Galento and Baer? I'd say they are all about in the same league punching-wise, but you just make up concurrent realities.

[Ambling Alp]

That was a peak Ali who fought Bonavena? Really?
I guess I am going to have to ask when did Norton "wobble" Ali?

Baer and Galento hit about as hard Earnie Shavers? Wow.

Galento has got as much noteriety from a knockdown in a fight that he lost as anyone. His 15 minutes is up.

[dempseyfire]

That was a peak Ali who fought Bonavena? Really?
I guess I am going to have to ask when did Norton "wobble" Ali?

Baer and Galento hit about as hard Earnie Shavers? Wow.

Galento has got as much noteriety from a knockdown in a fight that he lost as anyone. His 15 minutes is up.

Re-read the post. A peak Ali fought Chuvalo in 66 and I mentioned Ali's age when he fought Bonavena.

When did Norton wobble Ali? At least twice in their rematch . .

Yes, I can see Max Baer equaling Shavers in terms of punching power. Shavers was a dynamite puncher but I don't see how he suddenly became the defacto number 1 guy b/c he hurt but failed to put away Holmes and Ali . . .

Both Baer brothers, Galento, Lyle, Liston etc. were all knockout punchers and it's a pretty tedious and forever inconclusive exercise to try to ascertain who CLEARLY hit harder.

And yes, I'd match Galento's left hook with any in history, including Liston, Tua, Frazier etc.

[Ambling Alp]

Ali was still in his 20's against Bonavena but he was far from his "peak". He had only the 3 rounds with Quarry since a 3 and half year layoff.

Ali did get hit flush against Chuvalo? So what. It's a fight. He was never remotely in any sort of trouble.

Norton wobbled Ali? I guess we have a differnce in what we consider "wobbled". I don't think norton ever had him ain any serious trouble at all.

If you are calling these things being in trouble than every heavyweight champion was in trouble in a large % of their fights.

Shavers is consider by many to be the hardest puncher ever for several reasons, not just because of the Holmes/ali fights:

-His punches seem to be extremely powerful on film.
-Several fighters who have fought attest to his power. (James Tillis for example, said Shavers was by the hardest puncher he ever faced, and he faced an old Shavers.)
-He has a very high ko ratio
-He knocked out fighters with good chins.
-And of course he hurt Holmes and Ali, who had iron chins.

Not one of these things by itself automatically means he was a brutal puncher, but if you add them up it's pretty good evidence.

Galento simply doesn't match up to this at all. He is one knock down away from obscurity.

Baer didn't have an extremely high KO rate even though he fought a lot patsies. Of course fights were generally stopped earlier in Shaver's era, but there is a huge difference.

Where is all of this comiong from? Are seriously saying that Louis had about as good of a chin as Ali?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I'm not convinced Two Ton is that much better than Butterbean.

[Robinson]

Baer clobbered guys with his right hand, that battered away.
Shavers threw a perfect right hand the right way, that was also accurate.

Shavers clearly was the better and harder puncher who KO'd a much
better field of fighters. I dont think that too many men have the
single punch power that Shavers could generate from a cross,
OH right, hook or uppercut. If Shavers threw more jabs and was
better schooled in his fights.....

Id favour Shavers to KO Max Baer in about 5 rounds had they both
met at their peaks.

[Robinson]

The thing about Galento is...he is not that big...he is pretty
short and is a very portly 230ish....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=begybILjnuQ
A past it Baer showing how good his power was late in his career

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2DWswsfpmI
Selected rounds from Galento-Baer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUWy4FtdpwI
Shavers doing his thing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK-WNnPsHwo
The late power of a 37yo....extremely ring worn Shavers
vs a clever in shape Tillis.

Ill try and upload some more of Shavers later.

[I Feel Fine]

Farr 'wobbled' Louis? When?

A 'peak' Ali was caught flush several times by Chuvalo and at 29-31 years old was wobbled by Bonavena and Norton . . so the ship sails both ways.

And how the hell do you know Lyle and Shavers hit harder than Galento and Baer? I'd say they are all about in the same league punching-wise, but you just make up concurrent realities.

Look at Louis' legs. He wasn't badly hurt, but he was indeed stunned a couple of times.

Its not about being "caught" by punches, its about being "hurt" or "rocked" by punches. Chuvalo never noticeably rocked Ali that I can remember, maybe once at most. I remember Bonavena stunning Ali a bit, but he was fighting an Ali who was ring rusted as shit, and he didn't hurt him badly either. Norton did stun Ali a couple of times in their fights, but same deal, he never had Ali badly hurt. There's a very big difference between being put on queer street by Billy Conn and being dropped by Jim Braddock and being momentarily stunned by big punching natural Heavyweights like Bonavena and Norton. Very big difference. Frazier was still a young fighter, but Bonavena dropped him twice in their first fight. I don't see Galento doing that to Joe.

Larry Holmes said that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. Ali sort of implied that Shavers hit harder than Foreman. Something tells me that Galento and Baer were not on that level in terms of power. Either way, Baer and Galento knocked Louis down, while Shavers never had Ali down, which you fail to note in your comparison. And its not just that Ali was able to take Shavers' shot, but that Ali was also 35 years old and well past his best when he fought Shavers, while Louis was in his prime against both of those men. How many shot 35 year old fighters do you honestly see taking flush right hands from Earnie Shavers throughout the course of a 15 round fight without even being knocked down by Earnie? I can't see many being capable of it. Compare that to Louis at around that same age when he was being badly hurt by a 184 lbs Ezzard Charles' right hands in the latter portions of their fight.

And yes, I'd match Galento's left hook with any in history, including Liston, Tua, Frazier etc.

That's a ridiculous statement. I know that Louis is supposedly perfect according to his more hardcore fans, but, sorry, dropping the Brown Bomber doesn't automatically put your left hook up there with Frazier's. And we don't have to speculate on Ali's ability to take Frazier's shots; even Frazier, who didn't like Ali, had to admit that he was impressed by Ali's ability to take his punches.

Again, I do not believe that Louis had a bad chin. I never said so here or anywhere else. But his chin is not comparable to Ali's, and it takes bias to say otherwise. And I maintain what I said above; if Louis could get dropped by a Galento, I have doubts about his ability to survive a big shot from a Dempsey or a Liston or a Frazier or a Tyson. They won't let him off the hook if they have him hurt, I don't think I need to inform anyone of that.

[dempseyfire]

Farr 'wobbled' Louis? When?

A 'peak' Ali was caught flush several times by Chuvalo and at 29-31 years old was wobbled by Bonavena and Norton . . so the ship sails both ways.

And how the hell do you know Lyle and Shavers hit harder than Galento and Baer? I'd say they are all about in the same league punching-wise, but you just make up concurrent realities.

Look at Louis' legs. He wasn't badly hurt, but he was indeed stunned a couple of times.

Its not about being "caught" by punches, its about being "hurt" or "rocked" by punches. Chuvalo never noticeably rocked Ali that I can remember, maybe once at most. I remember Bonavena stunning Ali a bit, but he was fighting an Ali who was ring rusted as shit, and he didn't hurt him badly either. Norton did stun Ali a couple of times in their fights, but same deal, he never had Ali badly hurt. There's a very big difference between being put on queer street by Billy Conn and being dropped by Jim Braddock and being momentarily stunned by big punching natural Heavyweights like Bonavena and Norton. Very big difference. Frazier was still a young fighter, but Bonavena dropped him twice in their first fight. I don't see Galento doing that to Joe.

Larry Holmes said that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. Ali sort of implied that Shavers hit harder than Foreman. Something tells me that Galento and Baer were not on that level in terms of power. Either way, Baer and Galento knocked Louis down, while Shavers never had Ali down, which you fail to note in your comparison. And its not just that Ali was able to take Shavers' shot, but that Ali was also 35 years old and well past his best when he fought Shavers, while Louis was in his prime against both of those men. How many shot 35 year old fighters do you honestly see taking flush right hands from Earnie Shavers throughout the course of a 15 round fight without even being knocked down by Earnie? I can't see many being capable of it. Compare that to Louis at around that same age when he was being badly hurt by a 184 lbs Ezzard Charles' right hands in the latter portions of their fight.

And yes, I'd match Galento's left hook with any in history, including Liston, Tua, Frazier etc.

That's a ridiculous statement. I know that Louis is supposedly perfect according to his more hardcore fans, but, sorry, dropping the Brown Bomber doesn't automatically put your left hook up there with Frazier's. And we don't have to speculate on Ali's ability to take Frazier's shots; even Frazier, who didn't like Ali, had to admit that he was impressed by Ali's ability to take his punches.

Again, I do not believe that Louis had a bad chin. I never said so here or anywhere else. But his chin is not comparable to Ali's, and it takes bias to say otherwise. And I maintain what I said above; if Louis could get dropped by a Galento, I have doubts about his ability to survive a big shot from a Dempsey or a Liston or a Frazier or a Tyson. They won't let him off the hook if they have him hurt, I don't think I need to inform anyone of that.

IFF, I can't see how you can't see you selective memory here.

Louis 'seriously hurt' by Charles right hands? Conn put Louis on "queer street"?? Louis was as hurt vs Conn as Ali was vs Oscar in the 9th round of their fight. Both stunned, both forced to hold on. AND EARTH TO ANYONE LISTENING, that doesn't mean either had a bad chin. Louis squared up MUCH more often than Ali and thus was vulnerable to flash KDS, but pluueeze show me any evidence Louis was seriously hurt after the KDs vs Buddy Baer, Galento, Braddock etc. He got right back up, his legs were completly under him, and he went right back to work.

You and others on this thread clearly haven't read up much about Galento. His left hook was regarded as one of the best in the division and the top HWs of the time all greatly respected and feared his punching power and he knocked out some quality fighters who you dismiss simply b/c you haven't heard of them. No, I would NOT rank him over Earnie Shavers, but to say Galento's power was "Clearly not in his league' is just bullshit.

Shavers beats Max Baer? I don't think so. Both big punchers. One had a iron jaw and could go 20 rounds. The other had an average chin and was gasping for air after 8 rounds.