Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

[Rick Farris]

Photos and caption courtesy of Bruce Smith

Expug Said:

Nate Collins had an interesting career.
He must have been tough as he went out to Philly and stopped an undefeated Cyclone Hart.
Hart could knock a building down with his left hook.
Thanks for the story BW.

Giardello was another guy who I think of when I think of "fighters ,fighters"
Joey sounds like he could start a fight in an empty room.

Nate Collins decks Jimmy Lester

Nate certainly did have an interesting career, if you take a section of his career between Feb. 1966 & Aug. 1972 he goes 24 - 4 with loses to Andy Heilman, Rafeal Gutierrez, George Cooper and Emile Griffith and wins over Lonnie Harris, Jimmy Lester, Andy Heilman, Juarez DeLima, Orlando de la Fuentes and the afore mentioned Eugene Hart.
About Harts left hook; Nate said Hart knocked him down with it & there is no way he's getting up for more of that, but a very cocky Hart used some unpleasant verbiage towards Nate & it snapped him out of it and the rest is history.
How do you explain all of those losses before 1966 & after 1972; he was a waiter, had the big punch & boxed well so he would stick & move & move & stick looking for the right opening, let a lot of guys stay in the fight & win rounds while he waited for his opening. The Griffith fight consisted of Emile darting in & out building up points, winning round after round not taking any chances & when the bell rang at the end of the fight Nate was still looking for the opening & Emile won virtually every round.
By the way Nate is one of the nicest guys around, a real gentleman, very popular at all of the Veteran Boxer events.
Bobbin & Weavin

Nate Collins KOs Lonnie Harris

I knew Lonnie Harris and watched him train for years at the Main St. Gym. I fought on the undercard of his bout with John Claude Boutiere (spelling?) and knew he could hold his own with any middleweight of his era. He also could take a helluva punch, however, Nate Collins' was the exception. I love these Northern Cal photos, especially of the great middleweights I remember coming from up there. Nate Collins would have a field day with today's lot. No disgrace losing to an Emile Griffith. In today's world where a guy with twenty pro fights can hold six titiles in four divisions, I guess Griffith would hold twelve titles in eight divisions???? I mean, how else can we figure? Why don't they just assign boxers a world title when they sign their first pro contract, the fighting is just meaningless today when it comes to World titles.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I would really like to some day workout with Gene and Gokors students.
I have alot of respect for what they have going on at Hayastan. They are very solid grapplers and fighters.
I respect Gene and Gokor too.
They have fighting figured out.They are outstanding competitors and teachers.Its not always easy being both in any combat sport.
I fought at the Judo Nationals in Las Vegas in 2003 .Gokor was there with a Judo team from his dojo and I believe they did real well.
Rick, how do you find training with Gokors student?.Probably a great workout and fun also.
I first got into Judo and grappling in the early nineties .I was really intrigued at how easily the experienced judo guys threw me around.I mean I caught my ass.I had to learn however. I was hooked.
No doubt however that even though I hold Dan rank in judo and have competed and taught in that,
Boxing is my first love.Nothing compares to the thrill of it, the history,and the fantastic people .Like the guys on this thread.

Pug, as a kid I took Judo classes before I started boxing. However, we are talking when I was about ten. I became involved again when a guy I worked with on a film set came to me and asked if I would help him learn boxing. I discovered that he had been with Gokor for five years, had competed with his team and wanted to expand his horizons in fighting. I was a bit pressed for time, but he said he lived close tome and had his own gym in his garage. He was going to pay me $50 an hour, but I didn't need to do it for the money. I just love to teach and workout like I did when I was fighting. After I saw this guy picked up on my instruction quickly, had heart and the right attitude, our sessions became fun. I told him I wouldn't charge him if he'd share his knowledge of grappling/judo with me. We began to cross train and have done so ever since. He no longer competes due to his schedule in the film business, which is more than 70 hours a week, like mine. However, we always get back together between productions, or on weekends when we can when we are working. John has been an instructor for Gokor and Gene, as well.

-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Lonnie Harris

[Expug]

Rick, I would really like to some day workout with Gene and Gokors students.
I have alot of respect for what they have going on at Hayastan. They are very solid grapplers and fighters.
I respect Gene and Gokor too.
They have fighting figured out.They are outstanding competitors and teachers.Its not always easy being both in any combat sport.
I fought at the Judo Nationals in Las Vegas in 2003 .Gokor was there with a Judo team from his dojo and I believe they did real well.
Rick, how do you find training with Gokors student?.Probably a great workout and fun also.
I first got into Judo and grappling in the early nineties .I was really intrigued at how easily the experienced judo guys threw me around.I mean I caught my ass.I had to learn however. I was hooked.
No doubt however that even though I hold Dan rank in judo and have competed and taught in that,
Boxing is my first love.Nothing compares to the thrill of it, the history,and the fantastic people .Like the guys on this thread.

Pug, as a kid I took Judo classes before I started boxing. However, we are talking when I was about ten. I became involved again when a guy I worked with on a film set came to me and asked if I would help him learn boxing. I discovered that he had been with Gokor for five years, had competed with his team and wanted to expand his horizons in fighting. I was a bit pressed for time, but he said he lived close tome and had his own gym in his garage. He was going to pay me $50 an hour, but I didn't need to do it for the money. I just love to teach and workout like I did when I was fighting. After I saw this guy picked up on my instruction quickly, had heart and the right attitude, our sessions became fun. I told him I wouldn't charge him if he'd share his knowledge of grappling/judo with me. We began to cross train and have done so ever since. He no longer competes due to his schedule in the film business, which is more than 70 hours a week, like mine. However, we always get back together between productions, or on weekends when we can when we are working. John has been an instructor for Gokor and Gene, as well.

-Rick Farris

Outstanding.
Croostraining is great it really is.
I have fun working with wrestlers who want to learn how to box.
Strikers who want to learn how to throw/grapple.
Its fun to see them learn.
However I have also found many close minded people in Martial Arts who think that the only way is there way.
Boxers and wrestlers( including Judoka and Bjjers) dont really walk around thinking this way.
They are just into getting in there and fighting.They are confident in there abilities, there are no illusions and hypothetical situations.
They train full on and truly test themselves.
It aint about looking tough in the mirror.
In certain "arts" you see 9 yearolds walking around with black belts on, soccer moms running the dojo, fat ass instructors etc etc.Its an illusion.
I could really rant on this .

[kikibalt]

Damsel in Distress

NJ cops kick in door over bird's cries for help

TRENTON, N.J. - Cries for help inside a Trenton, N.J., home turned out to be for the birds. Neighbors called police Wednesday morning after hearing a woman's persistent cry of "Help me! Help me!" coming from a house. Officers arrived and when no one answered the door, they kicked it in to make a rescue.

But instead of a damsel in distress, officers found a caged cockatoo with a convincing call.

It wasn't the first time the 10-year-old bird named Luna said something that brought authorities to the home of owner Evelyn DeLeon.

About seven years ago, the bird cried like a baby for hours, leading to reports of a possible abandoned baby and a visit to the home by state child welfare workers. But it was only Luna practicing a newfound sound, DeLeon says.

DeLeon says her bird learns much of her ever-growing vocabulary from watching television, in both English and Spanish.

___

[kikibalt]

Speaking of wrestlers


Walter Kowalski
Pro wrestler was in 6,000 matches

Walter "Killer" Kowalski, 81, a pioneering wrestler who appeared in more than 6,000 matches in a 30-year career on the professional wrestling circuit, died of a heart attack Aug. 30 in Everett, Mass.

The 6-foot-7, 275-pound Kowalski garnered the reputation as a villain in the ring during a 1954 match with Yukon Eric in Montreal. Kowalski told the Chicago Tribune in 1989 that he jumped on Eric from the ropes and "I thought I had missed, but all of a sudden something was rolling across the ring. It was his ear."

He visited his opponent in the hospital and, according to his website, "the two men began laughing at how silly Eric's bandages looked." A reporter overheard the laughter and assumed that Kowalski was making fun of his opponent.

Kowalski later became famous for various moves, including a stomach vise grip called the "Killer Clutch."

He retired from the ring in 1977, a year after he and Big John Studd captured the WWF World Wrestling Tag Team Championship as members of "The Executioners" team.

The son of Polish immigrants, Kowalski was born Wladek Spulnik in Windsor, Canada.

He had hoped to become an electrical engineer but turned to wrestling when a friend said it would help pay his way through school. He put his education aside and continued on the mat.

After retiring from the ring, he founded Killer Kowalski's Pro Wrestling School in North Andover, Mass. He sold the business in 2003.

[kikibalt]

From Dan Hanley

Frank, who eventually promoted this bout?



Cal & Aileen Eaton promoted the Moore/Anthony fight at the Olympic with George Parnassus been the matchmaker.

Btw I was there at that fight.

[kikibalt]

From Dan Hanley

Frankie, do you remember any of this going on? What was your take on Babe McCoy? I read somewhere he was also under scrutiny for putting Keeny Teran in very, very deep. The article suggested it was more for revenge on Keeny that he did so. Anyways, it's interesting reading about the involvement of Melville Himelfarb, who was very close at this time to reinventing himself as Harry Kabakoff. Just curious.



Dan,

I don't remember too much on this, I do remember that Keeny was pissed-off at McCoy at one time, I myself didn't know McCoy well at all, McCoy was ban from boxing for life for fixing fights, he did fix one or two of Art Aragon fights.

[kikibalt]

I remember been told by some of the old time managers in L.A. back in the early 1950's, when McCoy was still on top of his game, that no local fighters could go fight anywhere else, unless McCoy got 10 percent of the fighter purse.

[Rick Farris]

Check the date guys, this edition of the Los Angeles Times came out fifty-years-ago today. Exactly half a century since Basilio KOed Aragon. Where were you exactly fifty years ago today? Me, I was about to enter the first grade in Burbank, California.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I would really like to some day workout with Gene and Gokors students.
I have alot of respect for what they have going on at Hayastan. They are very solid grapplers and fighters.
I respect Gene and Gokor too.
They have fighting figured out.They are outstanding competitors and teachers.Its not always easy being both in any combat sport.
I fought at the Judo Nationals in Las Vegas in 2003 .Gokor was there with a Judo team from his dojo and I believe they did real well.
Rick, how do you find training with Gokors student?.Probably a great workout and fun also.
I first got into Judo and grappling in the early nineties .I was really intrigued at how easily the experienced judo guys threw me around.I mean I caught my ass.I had to learn however. I was hooked.
No doubt however that even though I hold Dan rank in judo and have competed and taught in that,
Boxing is my first love.Nothing compares to the thrill of it, the history,and the fantastic people .Like the guys on this thread.

Pug, as a kid I took Judo classes before I started boxing. However, we are talking when I was about ten. I became involved again when a guy I worked with on a film set came to me and asked if I would help him learn boxing. I discovered that he had been with Gokor for five years, had competed with his team and wanted to expand his horizons in fighting. I was a bit pressed for time, but he said he lived close tome and had his own gym in his garage. He was going to pay me $50 an hour, but I didn't need to do it for the money. I just love to teach and workout like I did when I was fighting. After I saw this guy picked up on my instruction quickly, had heart and the right attitude, our sessions became fun. I told him I wouldn't charge him if he'd share his knowledge of grappling/judo with me. We began to cross train and have done so ever since. He no longer competes due to his schedule in the film business, which is more than 70 hours a week, like mine. However, we always get back together between productions, or on weekends when we can when we are working. John has been an instructor for Gokor and Gene, as well.

-Rick Farris

Outstanding.
Croostraining is great it really is.
I have fun working with wrestlers who want to learn how to box.
Strikers who want to learn how to throw/grapple.
Its fun to see them learn.
However I have also found many close minded people in Martial Arts who think that the only way is there way.
Boxers and wrestlers( including Judoka and Bjjers) dont really walk around thinking this way.
They are just into getting in there and fighting.They are confident in there abilities, there are no illusions and hypothetical situations.
They train full on and truly test themselves.
It aint about looking tough in the mirror.
In certain "arts" you see 9 yearolds walking around with black belts on, soccer moms running the dojo, fat ass instructors etc etc.Its an illusion.
I could really rant on this .

How true, Brian. Street corner dojos that cater to parents who are impressed over a mega number of belts in every color of the rainbow have nothing to do with fighting, just the illusion of fighting. You hit the nail right on the head. In the eighties, I was doing this TV series (Riptide) down in the South Bay. I was close to Torrance and took the time to familiarize myself with Brailian JJ at the Gracie's Club. I learned a lot in a short time, about five months, and what I liked was their instruction was all about fighting, really getting it on, things that would run off anybody not fully committed to the reality of actual fighting. It wasn't about katas, or belts, or BS. I wanted to expand my abilities to control an opponent when my punches would fall short. Today, my left hand is weakened from arthritus around my thumb and wrist area, injuries not from boxing but from slammimg the heavy bag later in life with an unwrapped fist, not to mention a couple of street fights. This gives me other options, should I ever need them, and I hope I won't. Who knows?

-Rick

[scartissue]

Check the date guys, this edition of the Los Angeles Times came out fifty-years-ago today. Exactly half a century since Basilio KOed Aragon. Where were you exactly fifty years ago today? Me, I was about to enter the first grade in Burbank, California.

-Rick

Living on the west side of Chicago, having just mastered this new fad called 'walking' and leaving a nasty trail behind me.

Scartissue

[Bobbin & Weavin]

Check the date guys, this edition of the Los Angeles Times came out fifty-years-ago today. Exactly half a century since Basilio KOed Aragon. Where were you exactly fifty years ago today? Me, I was about to enter the first grade in Burbank, California.

-Rick[/quote]

Living on the west side of Chicago, having just mastered this new fad called 'walking' and leaving a nasty trail behind me.

Scartissue[/quote]

I was living in S.F., two years old and working on the early stages of my footwork too in shoes very similar to boxing shoes! Good pick up on that date Rick and what a news day it was!
Bobbin & Weavin

[kikibalt]

Check the date guys, this edition of the Los Angeles Times came out fifty-years-ago today. Exactly half a century since Basilio KOed Aragon. Where were you exactly fifty years ago today? Me, I was about to enter the first grade in Burbank, California.

-Rick

I was there watching Artie getting his ass handed to him.

[kikibalt]

1958, Connie and I had been married 4 years, we were living on Williamson Ave. East Los Angeles. Its the day of the Aragon/Basilio fight and I can't fine anybody to go with me, so I tell Connie, "Call your sister Emily and see if she will baby sit Linda and Frankie and I'll take you with me", she does, Emily says yes, to pick her up, I do, Connie and I jump in our 1954 Chevy and head to Wrigley Field to see Aragon get beat, after the fight we went to a Mexican restaurant for dinner, and some of the fight crowd were there, I remember having a beer with Luis Magana, (Connie was to young to drink) who did the Spanish PR work for the Olympic.

What an era for boxing that was, and I was fortunate to have lived it.

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWE8I9pzOz0
Amir Khan vs Breidis Prescott

[dagosd2000]

From Dan Hanley

Frank, who eventually promoted this bout?



Cal & Aileen Eaton promoted the Moore/Anthony fight at the Olympic with George Parnassus been the matchmaker.

Btw I was there at that fight.

Italians have mixed feeligs about Frank Sinatra. He did a lot of good as far as helping people out. Especially people he didn't know. He'd read about someone down on his luck in the papers,and then Sinatra would tell his lawyer to cut an anonymous donation to the poor soul. Sinatra helped Joe Louis and Ray Robinson. That was more out in the open. But Sinatra was full of himself. And he wasn't that tough. He tried to convey that image,but he was compensating for insecurities.

My father didn't like him because he dodged the draft in WW II with the broken ear drum story. When I see him in a War Movie,I switch channels. I remember that time in Vegas when he hijacked the golf cart and was driving through the lobby. The manager knocked his teeth out.

But this is what always got me about Sinatra. He was always hitting on your woman. He did it with Bogart when he was married to Lauren Bacall,and he did it with Joe DiMaggio when Joe was having problems with Marilyn Monroe.Sinatra turned her on to drugs. The thing is ,Bogey and DiMaggio trusted Sinatra. Nothing worse than your friend trying to screw your wife.

More Italians will tell you Dean Martin was the smooth one. Now Dean was tough. He'd fight in his hotel room with a friend and charge admission when he was bummin' around the Apple. Dean knew how to handle Sinatra. Dean knew what Frank was like. A show off. Dean was cool.

Dean also warned Sinatra about the Kennedy's. Dean didn't want to hang with JFK and Bobby. He told Sinatra that one day they'd turn on him, and they did.

But Sinatra songs are classics. So are Deans',and Bobby Darin's,and Perry Como(my mother's favorite). We still have Tony Bennet. I hear he's coming to one of the Indian Casinos.I'll be there when he comes. He's got to be in his 80's. I don't care. He can still sing with style, even if he was in a wheel chair.

[Expug]

From Dan Hanley

Frank, who eventually promoted this bout?



Cal & Aileen Eaton promoted the Moore/Anthony fight at the Olympic with George Parnassus been the matchmaker.

Btw I was there at that fight.

Italians have mixed feeligs about Frank Sinatra. He did a lot of good as far as helping people out. Especially people he didn't know. He'd read about someone down on his luck in the papers,and then Sinatra would tell his lawyer to cut an anonymous donation to the poor soul. Sinatra helped Joe Louis and Ray Robinson. That was more out in the open. But Sinatra was full of himself. And he wasn't that tough. He tried to convey that image,but he was compensating for insecurities.

My father didn't like him because he dodged the draft in WW II with the broken ear drum story. When I see him in a War Movie,I switch channels. I remember that time in Vegas when he hijacked the golf cart and was driving through the lobby. The manager knocked his teeth out.

But this is what always got me about Sinatra. He was always hitting on your woman. He did it with Bogart when he was married to Lauren Bacall,and he did it with Joe DiMaggio when Joe was having problems with Marilyn Monroe.Sinatra turned her on to drugs. The thing is ,Bogey and DiMaggio trusted Sinatra. Nothing worse than your friend trying to screw your wife.

More Italians will tell you Dean Martin was the smooth one. Now Dean was tough. He'd fight in his hotel room with a friend and charge admission when he was bummin' around the Apple. Dean knew how to handle Sinatra. Dean knew what Frank was like. A show off. Dean was cool.

Dean also warned Sinatra about the Kennedy's. Dean didn't want to hang with JFK and Bobby. He told Sinatra that one day they'd turn on him, and they did.

But Sinatra songs are classics. So are Deans',and Bobby Darin's,and Perry Como(my mother's favorite). We still have Tony Bennet. I hear he's coming to one of the Indian Casinos.I'll be there when he comes. He's got to be in his 80's. I don't care. He can still sing with style, even if he was in a wheel chair.

Thanks for that info on Frank , Rog. Very interesting .

So he was one of those guys who wasnt good company when there was a pretty girl in the room huh?

I never liked guys like that.

[kikibalt]

Joey Giardello has died,

RIP, Joey....

Joey G.

I just got off the phone with Nate Collins, San Francisco middleweight from the 60s & 70s, he fought Giardello in Giardello's 3rd to last fight; when I told Nate that Joey had died you could tell he was very sad even though they didn't have a great experience, Nate said, Giardello hit me with a left hook in the body in the 2nd round & I could swear someone had shot me, after that I got on my bike & started jabbin", Joey was pretty beat up with both eyes closed but was real pissed when the ref stopped the fight!" Nate also said, "After the fight we were over picking up our checks and Joey started swinging at me, & everyone else...man it was wild, the guy just liked to fight!"

Bobbin & Weavin

Joey Giardello, 78; middleweight boxer who sued over depiction in 'The Hurricane'
By Claire Noland, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 7, 2008

Joey Giardello, a former middleweight boxing champion who won a decision over Rubin Carter in 1964 and then sued over how the fight was depicted in the 1999 film "The Hurricane," has died. He was 78.

Giardello died Thursday of congestive heart failure at a nursing home in Cherry Hill, N.J., the International Boxing Hall of Fame announced.

Elected to the Hall of Fame in 1993, Giardello had a 101-25-7 record with 33 knockouts while fighting from 1948 to 1967. The 5-foot-10, 160-pound boxer captured the middleweight title at the relatively late age of 33, defeating favored Dick Tiger of Nigeria in a 15-round bout Dec. 7, 1963, in Atlantic City, N.J.

He successfully defended the belt against Carter in a unanimous decision in Philadelphia the next year before relinquishing it to Tiger in 1965. Two years later he retired from the ring.

Giardello followed a tortuous path to boxing's pinnacle, and his life outside the ring was marked by colorful episodes.

Born Carmine Orlando Tilelli in Brooklyn, N.Y., on July 16, 1930, he borrowed the identity of one Joseph Giardello to join the Army in 1946. After honing his boxing skills in the service, Giardello settled on the south side of Philadelphia and worked his way up the middleweight ranks.

A speedy, relentless fighter, Giardello might have reached the top of his game sooner had he followed a more rigorous training regimen than one that included a little running, a little punching, and a lot of macaroni and cheese and beer.

"I was a natural," he told Sports Illustrated in 1998. "I wouldn't train. I just fought."

In 1955, one of those fights landed him in jail for four months. His opponent was a South Philly gas station attendant.

The high point of Giardello's career came in 1963, when he beat Sugar Ray Robinson, and then Tiger in the championship match. But the lasting memories fixate on the Carter fight. Although most contemporary observers and boxing historians agree it was a hard-fought contest won by Giardello, Carter has come out ahead in some accounts.

"The Hurricane," directed by Norman Jewison and starring Denzel Washington, tells the story of Carter, a black man who was unjustly imprisoned for the murder of three white people before his conviction was overturned and he was released. In the film, the decision favoring Giardello, who is white, appears to be racially motivated and unfair.

Giardello filed a federal lawsuit claiming defamation and eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. Later versions of the film on DVD included commentary by the director noting that liberties were taken in the fight scenes.

After retiring from boxing, Giardello worked as an insurance salesman, then as an inspector for the New Jersey Department of Weights and Measures.

Survivors include his wife of 58 years, Rosalie; and four sons, Joseph, Carmine, Paul and Steven, who use the name Tilelli.

"It don't bother me none," Giardello told the Post-Standard of Syracuse, N.Y., in 1993. "Everything is in order. My kids? Tilelli. The deed on the house? Tilelli. Tax returns? Tilelli. Me? Giardello. I don't care."

[Expug]

Always liked Bobby Darin.
Theres an unforced coolness to that guy.
One of his signature tunes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dDs_N3kGQk

and one that is different than people might think.
singing in a different style than he is known for.It shows he had range and loads of talent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjFRLOktHXo

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkCuwf-t6o

Puggy

A little Bobby Darin by some Mexican kids, btw, my cousin's son plays sax on the band.

[Expug]

I like those guys Frank.
Very nice.
They are a throwback too.
Old school cool.

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GD8TpHRaYE
Thewiseguys.



Frank, the lead singer of the Wiseguys

[dagosd2000]

From Dan Hanley

Frank, who eventually promoted this bout?



Cal & Aileen Eaton promoted the Moore/Anthony fight at the Olympic with George Parnassus been the matchmaker.

Btw I was there at that fight.

Italians have mixed feeligs about Frank Sinatra. He did a lot of good as far as helping people out. Especially people he didn't know. He'd read about someone down on his luck in the papers,and then Sinatra would tell his lawyer to cut an anonymous donation to the poor soul. Sinatra helped Joe Louis and Ray Robinson. That was more out in the open. But Sinatra was full of himself. And he wasn't that tough. He tried to convey that image,but he was compensating for insecurities.

My father didn't like him because he dodged the draft in WW II with the broken ear drum story. When I see him in a War Movie,I switch channels. I remember that time in Vegas when he hijacked the golf cart and was driving through the lobby. The manager knocked his teeth out.

But this is what always got me about Sinatra. He was always hitting on your woman. He did it with Bogart when he was married to Lauren Bacall,and he did it with Joe DiMaggio when Joe was having problems with Marilyn Monroe.Sinatra turned her on to drugs. The thing is ,Bogey and DiMaggio trusted Sinatra. Nothing worse than your friend trying to screw your wife.

More Italians will tell you Dean Martin was the smooth one. Now Dean was tough. He'd fight in his hotel room with a friend and charge admission when he was bummin' around the Apple. Dean knew how to handle Sinatra. Dean knew what Frank was like. A show off. Dean was cool.

Dean also warned Sinatra about the Kennedy's. Dean didn't want to hang with JFK and Bobby. He told Sinatra that one day they'd turn on him, and they did.

But Sinatra songs are classics. So are Deans',and Bobby Darin's,and Perry Como(my mother's favorite). We still have Tony Bennet. I hear he's coming to one of the Indian Casinos.I'll be there when he comes. He's got to be in his 80's. I don't care. He can still sing with style, even if he was in a wheel chair.

Thanks for that info on Frank , Rog. Very interesting .

So he was one of those guys who wasnt good company when there was a pretty girl in the room huh?

I never liked guys like that.

Pug
A couple of other things came to mind about Sinatra. He went through a messy divorce with his first wife Nancy. They were childhood sweethearts in New York and she stuck with him when he was struggling. Also bore him three children. Then Frank cracks into the big time and wants to marry Ava Gardner. Well Nancy is Catholic and figures Frank is going through a phase. No divorce. But Sinatra puts the pressure on her and she relents. That's why Frank Jr. was never close to his dad. He felt his dad hurt his mother.

Now check this out. While Sinatra's married to Ava Gardner,he's asking his ex wife Nency to send over her homemade Italian food,AND SHE DOES IT ! Brother. Now granted Ava Gardner was probably great in the sack. And could out drink half the guys at the bar. But cooking? Cooking Italian? If Ava Gardner could put a TV Dinner in the oven and remember to turn it on,it was a plus in her favor.

Point two. Sinatra always liked to hang around Made Guys. There's that famous picture of him draping his arms aroung Carlo Gambino. I think Jimmy"The Weasel" is in there too. Shit,all those guys used him for was to put their pecentages in the hotels and casinos in Sinatra's name because they all had records. And of course Frank sang in their joints. The only other thing they needed him for was to sing at their daughters' weddings,for free of course.