Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Everytime I see a Starbucks,I want to puke.

There is no way to describe how much I hate Starbucks. Give me regular cup of Joe any day of the week. I don't get it. It's lousy cup of coffee. It's the Starbucks mentality in this country that is tearing down the old classic buildings. It's all about image.

Randy
Cardenas was born in that house that Frank posted for me. Everything has been left alone. That town is very proud of him.

[dagosd2000]

Its gotta be The Olympic Rog.
I never had the honor of going there.But, Ive always been intrigued by the place .
A real boxing venue.
I also miss the old Chicago Stadium.I loved that place.
You guys here would have really appreciated that place also.

My father took me to a Blackhawk game there once. I always loved the sound of the big Wurlitzer Organ. The echo was incredible.

[Randyman]

Good point Randy.
A person who doesnt care at all about their health probably aint interested in preserving a landmark.

Lucky for boxing and the country there are guys like us that still believe in old fashioned values, morality and hard work. No joking, I see it as all being related. Symptomatic of what's wrong with the country and so many people. It has somehow become all about image, or the obsession with money, or and don't laugh, the preoccupations of the Britney Spears and Paris Hiltons of the world. No one wants to contribute. They just want to reap the benefits of someone else's hard work. I could go on and on but you get the picture. It's not a lot of little problems, it's one big problem. Lot's of apathy.

Hey Randy
I don't know about the morality part. I guess i'm getting a little better at it. But I remember the day 30 years ago when they tore down the Blue Fox. Since we're talking about tearing down National treasures,I'll never forget when the bulldozers smashed down the most notorious "cat house" in the world. The neon sign read "The Green Note',but there was one of those big sandwich boards out side the door with a painting of a sly old fox in a tux smoking a cigarette and holding a martini glass..He's saying,"Eat At The Blue Fox."Use your imagination on that one.

The thing was you always wanted to sneak in without paying the 75 cents for a long neck Tecate. You'd always tell the doorman,"Free look. I want a free look."
But if you were going inside they'd steer you to the bar and it was the long neck.

The place was big inside. Two floors with shows top and bottom. Plenty of girls,not bad lookin' either. What I also liked was the music. They had these old musicians that played "La Cucaracha" and "Mama Inez" with a jazz/latin beat so the girls who came out on stage could get to dancin'. A cornet,sax,upright piano,and timbales. These guys were real good musicians and new how to swing it. Hell jazz came from the Red Light District in Storyville. This was a natural for them. Then the girl would come out. The big stars were Georgina and Septiembre. They were drop dead in the looks department,but I think they spent all their money on "nose candy". They'd dance two,then the lights would dim. The doorman would give the signal. The emcee(Enos the Penis)would then ask all the horny animals if you wanted to "eat"Georgina,you'd have to clap your hands. Well let me tell ya' Ruth or Dempsey never heard so much clapping in their careers. Then it was just the bongos. Well you couldn't see too well and everybody is leanig backwards over the rail. Don't ask me how I behaved in there,but afterwards when I'd go to the Kentucky Diner,I swore those cat tacos had hair in them.

Well, you got me there Rog. But that was old fashioned decent immorality. There's a big difference. (I just made that up but it sounded good didn't it.)

[Randyman]

Well guys, that's it for me tonight. I'm going to kick back with my wife for a while before I go to bed. Good night.

Randy

[kikibalt]

Well guys, that's it for me tonight. I'm going to kick back with my wife for a while before I go to bed. Good night.

Randy

Nite, Randy....

[kikibalt]

Tail O' The Pup

I used to go to one of these on Whittier Bl. in the late 1940's and early 50's

[Rick Farris]

On the subject of Dave Shade and Bert Colima, I found results of bouts which weren't listed on their records. Early in his career while fighting in four-round bouts, Shade fought a lot of fighters who had interesting boxing careers, including Oakland Jimmy Duffy, Frankie Farren, Phil Salvadore, Willie Hunefeld, Charley Moy, Joe "Petie" Coffey, Danny Nunes, Danny Kramer, Earl France, California Frankie Burns, Teddy O'Hara, Georgie Spencer, Johnny Webber, Willie Capelle and Henry "Smiley" Bricker.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck, in those days everybody was involved in boxing . . . Wops, Micks, Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Polaks, German, and . . . well you get the picture. People were all tough then, they had to be. Who's the best? Well, the best place to look is at the bottom of the economic scale. Am I wrong? Who is the hungriest?

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

I'm going to McDdonalds.....

Hey Frank,
That's cool. I've never been to McDdonalds.Now I've been to McDonalds,and that place sucks. But you're going to McDdonalds. That must be a diffrent place. What is it like? Good food? Menudo con Pata? Or is it McMenudo?

Hey Rog . . . What? You've never been to a MacDonalds? That's bad, amigo. I mean, you can't make sense of America if you've never tied into a "Big Mac". Mexico you might have down, but NO MacDonalds . . .No U.S.! That's a big NO! You probably haven't been made aware that MacDonald's founder, the late Ray Kroc, made a deal with Reagan to deport all natural Americans who don't eat at MacDonalds. That's what funded George "W" Bush's vote count this past election.

-Rick "Whimpy's Ghost" Farris

[Rick Farris]

Good point Randy.
A person who doesnt care at all about their health probably aint interested in preserving a landmark.

Lucky for boxing and the country there are guys like us that still believe in old fashioned values, morality and hard work. No joking, I see it as all being related. Symptomatic of what's wrong with the country and so many people. It has somehow become all about image, or the obsession with money, or and don't laugh, the preoccupations of the Britney Spears and Paris Hiltons of the world. No one wants to contribute. They just want to reap the benefits of someone else's hard work. I could go on and on but you get the picture. It's not a lot of little problems, it's one big problem. Lot's of apathy.

Hey Randy
I don't know about the morality part. I guess i'm getting a little better at it. But I remember the day 30 years ago when they tore down the Blue Fox. Since we're talking about tearing down National treasures,I'll never forget when the bulldozers smashed down the most notorious "cat house" in the world. The neon sign read "The Green Note',but there was one of those big sandwich boards out side the door with a painting of a sly old fox in a tux smoking a cigarette and holding a martini glass..He's saying,"Eat At The Blue Fox."Use your imagination on that one.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Wasn't it: "Eat OUT at the Blue Fox?" Just curiosity from a squeaky clean gabacho, who would never engage in an immoral sexual act. I'm serious. Johnny Flores and Mel Epstein had axes to grind. Really.

-Rick

[bennie]

From fightviews.com:

"I've got no excuses, the better man won," said a disappointed Amir Khan following his shock 54 second KO loss to little-known Breidis Prescott. "He caught me cold in the first round, it was just one of those fights where I got caught cold. I lost in the amateurs and came back, and I will do the same again. I am going to come back stronger. I am going to take a week off, and then work on all the mistakes. I will be back to the gym, work hard, train a lot harder and come back a totally different fighter." Khan (18-1, 14 KOs) is scheduled to return to the ring on December 6 at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham. He also commented he plans to remain with trainer Jorge Rubio, whom he worked with for the first time in preparation for this fight.

That's the way I like to hear a fighter talk. No excuses, no finger pointing. Guys like that always come back. Usually with a better disposition and attitude too.
Randy

I'm sure Khan will come back OK. He is a nice kid (nothing like Hamed) and has undoubted ability. At his best his hands are a blur. He needs to tighten up his defence, obviously, and learn to pace himself and 'think' more in there. He walked straight out and traded with a proven puncher and a fast starter (15 wins inside three rounds). I would like to see Khan fight in the States a few times, which he certainly could, given trainer Rubio has a gym in Florida. Less pressure.

[kikibalt]

TSS Where Are They Now: Dave "Boy" Green
By Shawn Murphy from The Sweet Science

Former welterweight contender Dave "Boy" Green is one of Britain's all-time favorite pugilists. Green had an excellent amateur career over a span of 105 fights. He turned pro in 1974. Over his seven year career he won the British and European Light-Welterweight titles and the European Welterweight title. He lost in two bids for a world title, against Carlos Palomino in 1977 and against Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980. Although an excellent fighter he had the unfortunate luck of fighting at a time when the welterweight division was absolutely loaded with talent. He retired in 1981 with a final record of 37-4 with 29 KO'S.

(SM) Mr. Green, tell me when you got started and what kind of amateur
career did you have?
(DG) A friend and I joined the local amateur boxing club. I really enjoyed the
competition. I think I was about thirteen years old. As an amateur I was
a bantamweight, a featherweight, and then a lightweight. I won three
Eastern Counties championships and got through to the A.B.A semi-
finals. I lost to Terry Waller who had won the A.B.A six times.

(SM) Where did the nickname "Boy" come from?
(DG) My manager/trainer Andy Smith suggested it. There probably was a lot
of guys named Dave Green, so he said we needed to have a nickname.
It came from a fighter in Chatteris named Eric Boon, he fought in the
1930s. That was his nickname and we just used that. It just stuck, it was
a good nickname.

(SM) Who would you say was your first big name opponent you faced?
(DG) Probably Joey Singleton. That was my fifteenth fight, I won in six.

(SM) What fight would you say was your career highlight?
(DG) Probably the Jean-Baptiste Piedvache fight for the European title.
That was the hardest one. He had won forty out of forty-one fights to
that point. It was a very tough fight for me.

(SM) Tell me about the John Stracey fight.
(DG) That was March 1977. Stracey was a former champion, had lost to
Carlos Palomino. Whoever won this fight was going to fight Palomino.
That one was a hard fight for me.

(SM) How close was your fight with Palomino before you were knocked out?
(DG) I was one or two rounds ahead at the time. Palomino had three cuts
around his eyes. But he caught me in the end. That was the first time I
was knocked down as a pro. I had won twenty-four fights in a row, my first
loss was a tough one.

(SM) You went to Denmark to defend your European title against Joergen
Hansen. What happened in that fight?
(DG) I was perhaps a bit too cocky. I knocked him down in the second round. I
just went for him and he was a big puncher, he caught me. I got up and
he knocked me down again and the referee stopped it. It was a big
mistake by me, the biggest mistake of my career.

(SM) How did you like your chances going into the Sugar Ray Leonard fight?
(DG) Well Leonard fought Benitez and I thought Benitez wasn't as rough or as
solid as I was. I thought I could go a good eight or ten rounds. Leonard
was such an outstanding fighter though, the best in the thirteenth or
fourteenth rounds there was.

(SM) You retired after a tough loss to Reggie Ford in 1981, only twenty-eight
years old, why?
(DG) I had won the British and European Light-Welter titles, the European
Welterweight title and my manager suggested it. He said out there is
Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Wilfred Benitez. He told me
to get out and do something else. At the time I didn't think he was right,
I thought I could fight for three or four more years. But he was a great
manager, he cared about me and I just got out.

(SM) Any regrets looking back?
(DG) I had over one-hundred amateur fights. My goal was to win a Southern
Area title in Britain. I far exceeded what I thought I would do. I got two
shots at a world title. I've been to Carlos Palomino's home
in California for dinner and Sugar Ray Leonard has been to my home and
had dinner with my wife and I. It's been good.

(SM) Any fighters you would have liked to have got a chance at but didn't?
(DG) I think Duran and Hearns would have beaten me. Maybe a Benitez
fight would have been a different story, but he was a great champion.

(SM) So after boxing what kind of career did you get into?
(DG) I was working for a packaging company as a packaging agent. One of
my partners said he going to get out of it. I bought out some more partners
and it became a fifty-fifty split. My partner retired a few years ago. It's
called Renoak. I also do a lot of charity work as well.

(SM) Do you keep up on boxing much these days?
(DG) Not so much. I think there is now like five or six champions at each weight.
When I was there it was the WBA and WBC. I think the game has been
spoiled now, you don't know who the real world champion is. When I was
fighting I could tell you who every world champion was in every weight
class and now I couldn't name two in any division. I think it has been
spoiled that way. I was lucky to be in the best welterweight division ever.

(SM) Mr. Green, any final comments?
(DG) Boxing has been very good to me. It's a dangerous sport. You should go
in, make as much money as you can and get out. I've been one of the
lucky ones. I had a great manager and I think that’s what you really need.
I had a great time.

Please take a minute to log on to Murphy's favorite organization, the Retired Boxers Foundation. The website is: retiredboxers.com.

[bennie]

TSS Where Are They Now: Dave "Boy" Green
By Shawn Murphy from The Sweet Science

Former welterweight contender Dave "Boy" Green is one of Britain's all-time favorite pugilists. Green had an excellent amateur career over a span of 105 fights. He turned pro in 1974. Over his seven year career he won the British and European Light-Welterweight titles and the European Welterweight title. He lost in two bids for a world title, against Carlos Palomino in 1977 and against Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980. Although an excellent fighter he had the unfortunate luck of fighting at a time when the welterweight division was absolutely loaded with talent. He retired in 1981 with a final record of 37-4 with 29 KO'S.

(SM) Mr. Green, tell me when you got started and what kind of amateur
career did you have?
(DG) A friend and I joined the local amateur boxing club. I really enjoyed the
competition. I think I was about thirteen years old. As an amateur I was
a bantamweight, a featherweight, and then a lightweight. I won three
Eastern Counties championships and got through to the A.B.A semi-
finals. I lost to Terry Waller who had won the A.B.A six times.

(SM) Where did the nickname "Boy" come from?
(DG) My manager/trainer Andy Smith suggested it. There probably was a lot
of guys named Dave Green, so he said we needed to have a nickname.
It came from a fighter in Chatteris named Eric Boon, he fought in the
1930s. That was his nickname and we just used that. It just stuck, it was
a good nickname.

(SM) Who would you say was your first big name opponent you faced?
(DG) Probably Joey Singleton. That was my fifteenth fight, I won in six.

(SM) What fight would you say was your career highlight?
(DG) Probably the Jean-Baptiste Piedvache fight for the European title.
That was the hardest one. He had won forty out of forty-one fights to
that point. It was a very tough fight for me.

(SM) Tell me about the John Stracey fight.
(DG) That was March 1977. Stracey was a former champion, had lost to
Carlos Palomino. Whoever won this fight was going to fight Palomino.
That one was a hard fight for me.

(SM) How close was your fight with Palomino before you were knocked out?
(DG) I was one or two rounds ahead at the time. Palomino had three cuts
around his eyes. But he caught me in the end. That was the first time I
was knocked down as a pro. I had won twenty-four fights in a row, my first
loss was a tough one.

(SM) You went to Denmark to defend your European title against Joergen
Hansen. What happened in that fight?
(DG) I was perhaps a bit too cocky. I knocked him down in the second round. I
just went for him and he was a big puncher, he caught me. I got up and
he knocked me down again and the referee stopped it. It was a big
mistake by me, the biggest mistake of my career.

(SM) How did you like your chances going into the Sugar Ray Leonard fight?
(DG) Well Leonard fought Benitez and I thought Benitez wasn't as rough or as
solid as I was. I thought I could go a good eight or ten rounds. Leonard
was such an outstanding fighter though, the best in the thirteenth or
fourteenth rounds there was.

(SM) You retired after a tough loss to Reggie Ford in 1981, only twenty-eight
years old, why?
(DG) I had won the British and European Light-Welter titles, the European
Welterweight title and my manager suggested it. He said out there is
Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Wilfred Benitez. He told me
to get out and do something else. At the time I didn't think he was right,
I thought I could fight for three or four more years. But he was a great
manager, he cared about me and I just got out.

(SM) Any regrets looking back?
(DG) I had over one-hundred amateur fights. My goal was to win a Southern
Area title in Britain. I far exceeded what I thought I would do. I got two
shots at a world title. I've been to Carlos Palomino's home
in California for dinner and Sugar Ray Leonard has been to my home and
had dinner with my wife and I. It's been good.

(SM) Any fighters you would have liked to have got a chance at but didn't?
(DG) I think Duran and Hearns would have beaten me. Maybe a Benitez
fight would have been a different story, but he was a great champion.

(SM) So after boxing what kind of career did you get into?
(DG) I was working for a packaging company as a packaging agent. One of
my partners said he going to get out of it. I bought out some more partners
and it became a fifty-fifty split. My partner retired a few years ago. It's
called Renoak. I also do a lot of charity work as well.

(SM) Do you keep up on boxing much these days?
(DG) Not so much. I think there is now like five or six champions at each weight.
When I was there it was the WBA and WBC. I think the game has been
spoiled now, you don't know who the real world champion is. When I was
fighting I could tell you who every world champion was in every weight
class and now I couldn't name two in any division. I think it has been
spoiled that way. I was lucky to be in the best welterweight division ever.

(SM) Mr. Green, any final comments?
(DG) Boxing has been very good to me. It's a dangerous sport. You should go
in, make as much money as you can and get out. I've been one of the
lucky ones. I had a great manager and I think that’s what you really need.
I had a great time.

Please take a minute to log on to Murphy's favorite organization, the Retired Boxers Foundation. The website is: retiredboxers.com.

Thanks for posting, Frankie. Dave Green was a tough, tough fighter; Palomino did really well to beat him in London. In fact Carlos has Mando Muniz to thank for that win. Palomino came through that 15-round war with Mando in LA, prior to the Green defence. It brought him on as a fighter, as a champion, otherwise Green might just have done him. The Fen Tiger was right on top of his game going into that one and put in a huge effort until Carlos nailed him in the 11th (see how the Muniz war prepared Palomino).
Forget the loss to Leonard. Green was pretty spent after Palomino.

[kikibalt]

Owner: Ride's over at Coney Island amusement park By RICHARD PYLE, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - When reports circulated over the weekend of a last-minute deal to keep Coney Island's historic Astroland amusement park open for another year, owner Carol Hill Albert was not amused.

Indeed, her tone was bitter as she described plans to close the park Sunday night in lieu of an agreement with the city or with private developer Thor Equities, which have competing plans for the 3-acre Brooklyn site.

"Despite rumors to the contrary, there are absolutely no negotiations going on, and there never were," said Albert, whose family has owned Astroland for more than four decades.

The park would close permanently, she said. Late Sunday night, visitors were herded out of the park and the lights were shut off for the last time.

The Cyclone, the famous Coney Island roller coaster, and the 150-foot-tall Wonder Wheel, a Ferris wheel, are separately owned and landmarked by the city so they are unaffected by the closing.

News that Sunday would be the last gasp for Dante's Inferno fun house, 22 other rides and three arcades drew hundreds of nostalgia-minded visitors, including elderly residents of the beach area and families with children who had never ridden on the Tilt-A-Whirl or the Water Flume.

Bobby Salony said bringing his wife and their daughters from Greenwich, Conn., was a kind of "unfinished business."

"We had to come in and have one more time (at Astroland)," Salony said. "Twenty years from now, they can say they were here on the last day."

On a nearby sidewalk, Amos Wengler strummed a guitar and sang a tune he wrote for the occasion: "Save Coney Island, don't let them take it away, and the whole world wants it to stay."

Wengler was one of a few who said they felt there was "still hope" that Astroland would not disappear. Even if a developer takes over, "you can always make it the same again," he said.

Last fall, Astroland and Thor Equities, which owns 11 acres of seaside property that includes the amusement park, agreed to a one-year lease extension that expires Jan. 31, 2009.

Albert said Sunday that she had sought since June to negotiate an extension with Thor through 2010 but was repeatedly told the company had "no answer." Her spokesman, Joe Carella, said Albert decided to close Astroland when it was clear that Thor had no intention of negotiating with her.

Thor spokesman Stefan Friedman said the firm was "extremely disappointed" that Albert had "decided to give up on the future of Coney Island" with several months remaining on her lease.

The Daily News reported that Astroland's rides were already being offered for sale on the Internet, with prices ranging from $95,000 for the merry-go-round to $199,000 for the bumper cars.

[kikibalt]

TSS Where Are They Now: Dave "Boy" Green
By Shawn Murphy from The Sweet Science

Former welterweight contender Dave "Boy" Green is one of Britain's all-time favorite pugilists. Green had an excellent amateur career over a span of 105 fights. He turned pro in 1974. Over his seven year career he won the British and European Light-Welterweight titles and the European Welterweight title. He lost in two bids for a world title, against Carlos Palomino in 1977 and against Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980. Although an excellent fighter he had the unfortunate luck of fighting at a time when the welterweight division was absolutely loaded with talent. He retired in 1981 with a final record of 37-4 with 29 KO'S.

(SM) Mr. Green, tell me when you got started and what kind of amateur
career did you have?
(DG) A friend and I joined the local amateur boxing club. I really enjoyed the
competition. I think I was about thirteen years old. As an amateur I was
a bantamweight, a featherweight, and then a lightweight. I won three
Eastern Counties championships and got through to the A.B.A semi-
finals. I lost to Terry Waller who had won the A.B.A six times.

(SM) Where did the nickname "Boy" come from?
(DG) My manager/trainer Andy Smith suggested it. There probably was a lot
of guys named Dave Green, so he said we needed to have a nickname.
It came from a fighter in Chatteris named Eric Boon, he fought in the
1930s. That was his nickname and we just used that. It just stuck, it was
a good nickname.

(SM) Who would you say was your first big name opponent you faced?
(DG) Probably Joey Singleton. That was my fifteenth fight, I won in six.

(SM) What fight would you say was your career highlight?
(DG) Probably the Jean-Baptiste Piedvache fight for the European title.
That was the hardest one. He had won forty out of forty-one fights to
that point. It was a very tough fight for me.

(SM) Tell me about the John Stracey fight.
(DG) That was March 1977. Stracey was a former champion, had lost to
Carlos Palomino. Whoever won this fight was going to fight Palomino.
That one was a hard fight for me.

(SM) How close was your fight with Palomino before you were knocked out?
(DG) I was one or two rounds ahead at the time. Palomino had three cuts
around his eyes. But he caught me in the end. That was the first time I
was knocked down as a pro. I had won twenty-four fights in a row, my first
loss was a tough one.

(SM) You went to Denmark to defend your European title against Joergen
Hansen. What happened in that fight?
(DG) I was perhaps a bit too cocky. I knocked him down in the second round. I
just went for him and he was a big puncher, he caught me. I got up and
he knocked me down again and the referee stopped it. It was a big
mistake by me, the biggest mistake of my career.

(SM) How did you like your chances going into the Sugar Ray Leonard fight?
(DG) Well Leonard fought Benitez and I thought Benitez wasn't as rough or as
solid as I was. I thought I could go a good eight or ten rounds. Leonard
was such an outstanding fighter though, the best in the thirteenth or
fourteenth rounds there was.

(SM) You retired after a tough loss to Reggie Ford in 1981, only twenty-eight
years old, why?
(DG) I had won the British and European Light-Welter titles, the European
Welterweight title and my manager suggested it. He said out there is
Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Wilfred Benitez. He told me
to get out and do something else. At the time I didn't think he was right,
I thought I could fight for three or four more years. But he was a great
manager, he cared about me and I just got out.

(SM) Any regrets looking back?
(DG) I had over one-hundred amateur fights. My goal was to win a Southern
Area title in Britain. I far exceeded what I thought I would do. I got two
shots at a world title. I've been to Carlos Palomino's home
in California for dinner and Sugar Ray Leonard has been to my home and
had dinner with my wife and I. It's been good.

(SM) Any fighters you would have liked to have got a chance at but didn't?
(DG) I think Duran and Hearns would have beaten me. Maybe a Benitez
fight would have been a different story, but he was a great champion.

(SM) So after boxing what kind of career did you get into?
(DG) I was working for a packaging company as a packaging agent. One of
my partners said he going to get out of it. I bought out some more partners
and it became a fifty-fifty split. My partner retired a few years ago. It's
called Renoak. I also do a lot of charity work as well.

(SM) Do you keep up on boxing much these days?
(DG) Not so much. I think there is now like five or six champions at each weight.
When I was there it was the WBA and WBC. I think the game has been
spoiled now, you don't know who the real world champion is. When I was
fighting I could tell you who every world champion was in every weight
class and now I couldn't name two in any division. I think it has been
spoiled that way. I was lucky to be in the best welterweight division ever.

(SM) Mr. Green, any final comments?
(DG) Boxing has been very good to me. It's a dangerous sport. You should go
in, make as much money as you can and get out. I've been one of the
lucky ones. I had a great manager and I think that’s what you really need.
I had a great time.

Please take a minute to log on to Murphy's favorite organization, the Retired Boxers Foundation. The website is: retiredboxers.com.

Thanks for posting, Frankie. Dave Green was a tough, tough fighter; Palomino did really well to beat him in London. In fact Carlos has Mando Muniz to thank for that win. Palomino came through that 15-round war with Mando in LA, prior to the Green defence. It brought him on as a fighter, as a champion, otherwise Green might just have done him. The Fen Tiger was right on top of his game going into that one and put in a huge effort until Carlos nailed him in the 11th (see how the Muniz war prepared Palomino).
Forget the loss to Leonard. Green was pretty spent after Palomino.

Thank you Bennie, knew you would like that.....

[bennie]

Former Contender star Sergio Mora went one better when he wrested the WBC light-middleweight title from Vernon Forrest in a huge upset in June and became the first fighter from the boxing reality TV series to win a world title (Pete Manfredo and Alfonso Gomez had previously failed).
The unbeaten Los Angeles man, who picked up a million bucks for winning Contender in 2005, shrugged off a slow start and dominated the later rounds against the established but aging Forrest to snatch a majority decision in Connecticut. Now the new champion has to do it all over again when he defends against Forrest on the Joel Casamayor-Juan Manuel Marquez show in Las Vegas this Saturday (September 13).
Forrest, "The Viper" from Atlanta, claims he was "flat" last time but clearly underestimated his opponent and probably banked on an early win. This time we can expect him to be much sharper, mentally and physically, although you do wonder about his freshness after 16 years and three world title spells as a pro. Mora, by way of contrast, turned pro eight years ago and is 10 years the younger man at 27. Not a great puncher, "The Latin Snake" is slick and busy and looks strong at light-middleweight, after dropping down from middle. He will be determined to prove his moment of triumph was no fluke - just as Forrest will be out to make amends for what was really a shockingly bad performance (by his standards).
It could go either way, although one leans towards Mora.

[bennie]

Antonio Margarito


"Tony"

By Diego

Mexican sensation Antonio Margarito squares up to former victim Joshua Clottey in a good-looking unification clash in Anaheim, California, in November.
Margarito defends his WBA welterweight title; Clottey, his IBF.
Margarito, "The Tijuano Tornado", comes off a brilliant 11-round destruction of Miguel Cotto in Las Vegas in July to win the WBA belt and is now firmly established as one of boxing's superstars and a man to be feared. Even Oscar De La Hoya wants nothing to do with him when he bids farewell to the sport (good riddance) in a grotesque-looking match with little Manny Pacquiao a month later in Las Vegas (December 6).
Margarito is huge for welterweight, another Tommy Hearns, and can walk through the biggest punches to get off his own, given a chin made of iron. His stamina is immense. He holds two stoppage wins over huge-punching Kermit Cintron and simply wore down the classy, stiff-hitting, previously unbeaten Cotto until the battered-looking Puerto Rican could take no more.
Clottey, however, gave Margarito a pretty good fight when they first met in December 2006 in Atlantic City, before conceding a unanimous decision. The quick, durable, New York-based Ghanaian started well at the Boardwalk Hall that night, then dropped behind in the middle and later rounds, courtesy of Margarito's customary late drive, but Clottey put in a good final frame as "Tony" coasted to the final bell, clearly ahead on points.
The fact that Clottey went the full 12 rounds is a victory in itself in hindsight. He has come back exceptionally well, too, with wins over the likes of Diego Corrales and Zab Judah (for the vacant IBF title). Even though the IBF belt was unfairly stripped from Margarito, Clottey deserves this second go, this payday.
Margarito, however, can presumably do again what he has done before. The big, remorseless, body punching champion works his way to another decision.

[Randyman]

TSS Where Are They Now: Dave "Boy" Green
By Shawn Murphy from The Sweet Science

Former welterweight contender Dave "Boy" Green is one of Britain's all-time favorite pugilists. Green had an excellent amateur career over a span of 105 fights. He turned pro in 1974. Over his seven year career he won the British and European Light-Welterweight titles and the European Welterweight title. He lost in two bids for a world title, against Carlos Palomino in 1977 and against Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980. Although an excellent fighter he had the unfortunate luck of fighting at a time when the welterweight division was absolutely loaded with talent. He retired in 1981 with a final record of 37-4 with 29 KO'S.

(SM) Mr. Green, tell me when you got started and what kind of amateur
career did you have?
(DG) A friend and I joined the local amateur boxing club. I really enjoyed the
competition. I think I was about thirteen years old. As an amateur I was
a bantamweight, a featherweight, and then a lightweight. I won three
Eastern Counties championships and got through to the A.B.A semi-
finals. I lost to Terry Waller who had won the A.B.A six times.

(SM) Where did the nickname "Boy" come from?
(DG) My manager/trainer Andy Smith suggested it. There probably was a lot
of guys named Dave Green, so he said we needed to have a nickname.
It came from a fighter in Chatteris named Eric Boon, he fought in the
1930s. That was his nickname and we just used that. It just stuck, it was
a good nickname.

(SM) Who would you say was your first big name opponent you faced?
(DG) Probably Joey Singleton. That was my fifteenth fight, I won in six.

(SM) What fight would you say was your career highlight?
(DG) Probably the Jean-Baptiste Piedvache fight for the European title.
That was the hardest one. He had won forty out of forty-one fights to
that point. It was a very tough fight for me.

(SM) Tell me about the John Stracey fight.
(DG) That was March 1977. Stracey was a former champion, had lost to
Carlos Palomino. Whoever won this fight was going to fight Palomino.
That one was a hard fight for me.

(SM) How close was your fight with Palomino before you were knocked out?
(DG) I was one or two rounds ahead at the time. Palomino had three cuts
around his eyes. But he caught me in the end. That was the first time I
was knocked down as a pro. I had won twenty-four fights in a row, my first
loss was a tough one.

(SM) You went to Denmark to defend your European title against Joergen
Hansen. What happened in that fight?
(DG) I was perhaps a bit too cocky. I knocked him down in the second round. I
just went for him and he was a big puncher, he caught me. I got up and
he knocked me down again and the referee stopped it. It was a big
mistake by me, the biggest mistake of my career.

(SM) How did you like your chances going into the Sugar Ray Leonard fight?
(DG) Well Leonard fought Benitez and I thought Benitez wasn't as rough or as
solid as I was. I thought I could go a good eight or ten rounds. Leonard
was such an outstanding fighter though, the best in the thirteenth or
fourteenth rounds there was.

(SM) You retired after a tough loss to Reggie Ford in 1981, only twenty-eight
years old, why?
(DG) I had won the British and European Light-Welter titles, the European
Welterweight title and my manager suggested it. He said out there is
Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Wilfred Benitez. He told me
to get out and do something else. At the time I didn't think he was right,
I thought I could fight for three or four more years. But he was a great
manager, he cared about me and I just got out.

(SM) Any regrets looking back?
(DG) I had over one-hundred amateur fights. My goal was to win a Southern
Area title in Britain. I far exceeded what I thought I would do. I got two
shots at a world title. I've been to Carlos Palomino's home
in California for dinner and Sugar Ray Leonard has been to my home and
had dinner with my wife and I. It's been good.

(SM) Any fighters you would have liked to have got a chance at but didn't?
(DG) I think Duran and Hearns would have beaten me. Maybe a Benitez
fight would have been a different story, but he was a great champion.

(SM) So after boxing what kind of career did you get into?
(DG) I was working for a packaging company as a packaging agent. One of
my partners said he going to get out of it. I bought out some more partners
and it became a fifty-fifty split. My partner retired a few years ago. It's
called Renoak. I also do a lot of charity work as well.

(SM) Do you keep up on boxing much these days?
(DG) Not so much. I think there is now like five or six champions at each weight.
When I was there it was the WBA and WBC. I think the game has been
spoiled now, you don't know who the real world champion is. When I was
fighting I could tell you who every world champion was in every weight
class and now I couldn't name two in any division. I think it has been
spoiled that way. I was lucky to be in the best welterweight division ever.

(SM) Mr. Green, any final comments?
(DG) Boxing has been very good to me. It's a dangerous sport. You should go
in, make as much money as you can and get out. I've been one of the
lucky ones. I had a great manager and I think that’s what you really need.
I had a great time.

Please take a minute to log on to Murphy's favorite organization, the Retired Boxers Foundation. The website is: retiredboxers.com.

Great interview. I am always interested in hearing about exfighters, especially knowing they are doing well. Dave Green had a very respectable career. Getting two shots at the title speaks volumes, aside from fighting Palomino and Leonard, Green also fought some damned good fighters in John Stracey, Harold Weston and the tough Andy Price, who actually had wins over Palomino and Pipino Cuevas. It's fair to say he fought the best fighters of his day. He ducked no one. It's a career to be proud of. Green also sounds humble and that says a lot as well. He is also right on about the alphabet boys. Too many champions nowadays to keep in my head. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I miss the old days!

[bennie]

Green invested his money wisely and is a millionaire these days. I last saw him at a British Boxing Board 'do' in Cardiff in 2003 and he looks every bit as tough as he did as a fighter, every bit as fit. He has a penchant for earthy one-liners, every bit as earthy as his famous muckspreader right hand (which wobbled Palomino). I still remember, almost as if it were yesterday, when a stablemate of his by the name of Steve Hopkins was stopped on cuts in the 15th and final round of a British title challenge in 1980. It was a cruel time for the fight to be stopped, and immediately after the stoppage, the BBC cameras cut to Green, seated at ringside.
Green is looking on, bewildered. Then, as clear as day, he barks "fornicating Hell!"

[Randyman]

Antonio Margarito


"Tony"

By Diego

Mexican sensation Antonio Margarito squares up to former victim Joshua Clottey in a good-looking unification clash in Anaheim, California, in November.
Margarito defends his WBA welterweight title; Clottey, his IBF.
Margarito, "The Tijuano Tornado", comes off a brilliant 11-round destruction of Miguel Cotto in Las Vegas in July to win the WBA belt and is now firmly established as one of boxing's superstars and a man to be feared. Even Oscar De La Hoya wants nothing to do with him when he bids farewell to the sport (good riddance) in a grotesque-looking match with little Manny Pacquiao a month later in Las Vegas (December 6).
Margarito is huge for welterweight, another Tommy Hearns, and can walk through the biggest punches to get off his own, given a chin made of iron. His stamina is immense. He holds two stoppage wins over huge-punching Kermit Cintron and simply wore down the classy, stiff-hitting, previously unbeaten Cotto until the battered-looking Puerto Rican could take no more.
Clottey, however, gave Margarito a pretty good fight when they first met in December 2006 in Atlantic City, before conceding a unanimous decision. The quick, durable, New York-based Ghanaian started well at the Boardwalk Hall that night, then dropped behind in the middle and later rounds, courtesy of Margarito's customary late drive, but Clottey put in a good final frame as "Tony" coasted to the final bell, clearly ahead on points.
The fact that Clottey went the full 12 rounds is a victory in itself in hindsight. He has come back exceptionally well, too, with wins over the likes of Diego Corrales and Zab Judah (for the vacant IBF title). Even though the IBF belt was unfairly stripped from Margarito, Clottey deserves this second go, this payday.
Margarito, however, can presumably do again what he has done before. The big, remorseless, body punching champion works his way to another decision.

Bennie, that was a pretty accurate assessment. Although Margarito has been a champion for sometime now I think his "time" has come. His confidence level is at an all time high. His confidence is tempered by the fact that he lost before, so he knows the pitfalls of over confidence. My father always said that it is better for fighter to lose early in their career, to get it out of the way. It takes the weight off the fighters shoulders. So I think that both physically and mentally Antonio Margarito is at the top of his game. I believe he'll beat Clottey, and if so, he needs to settle with Paul Williams.

Randy

[bennie]

Antonio Margarito


"Tony"

By Diego

Mexican sensation Antonio Margarito squares up to former victim Joshua Clottey in a good-looking unification clash in Anaheim, California, in November.
Margarito defends his WBA welterweight title; Clottey, his IBF.
Margarito, "The Tijuano Tornado", comes off a brilliant 11-round destruction of Miguel Cotto in Las Vegas in July to win the WBA belt and is now firmly established as one of boxing's superstars and a man to be feared. Even Oscar De La Hoya wants nothing to do with him when he bids farewell to the sport (good riddance) in a grotesque-looking match with little Manny Pacquiao a month later in Las Vegas (December 6).
Margarito is huge for welterweight, another Tommy Hearns, and can walk through the biggest punches to get off his own, given a chin made of iron. His stamina is immense. He holds two stoppage wins over huge-punching Kermit Cintron and simply wore down the classy, stiff-hitting, previously unbeaten Cotto until the battered-looking Puerto Rican could take no more.
Clottey, however, gave Margarito a pretty good fight when they first met in December 2006 in Atlantic City, before conceding a unanimous decision. The quick, durable, New York-based Ghanaian started well at the Boardwalk Hall that night, then dropped behind in the middle and later rounds, courtesy of Margarito's customary late drive, but Clottey put in a good final frame as "Tony" coasted to the final bell, clearly ahead on points.
The fact that Clottey went the full 12 rounds is a victory in itself in hindsight. He has come back exceptionally well, too, with wins over the likes of Diego Corrales and Zab Judah (for the vacant IBF title). Even though the IBF belt was unfairly stripped from Margarito, Clottey deserves this second go, this payday.
Margarito, however, can presumably do again what he has done before. The big, remorseless, body punching champion works his way to another decision.

Bennie, that was a pretty accurate assessment. Although Margarito has been a champion for sometime now I think his "time" has come. His confidence level is at an all time high. His confidence is tempered by the fact that he lost before, so he knows the pitfalls of over confidence. My father always said that it is better for fighter to lose early in their career, to get it out of the way. It takes the weight off the fighters shoulders. So I think that both physically and mentally Antonio Margarito is at the top of his game. I believe he'll beat Clottey, and if so, he needs to settle with Paul Williams.

Randy

A wise man, your father, Randy. Get that loss out of the way, then settle down and show everyone what you can do. It helped Monzon, Duran and, as you say, Margarito to lose. This obsession with unbeaten records is a curse on the modern game.

[enrique]

I don't like McD's and for coffee I am in Miami, where a cup of the strongest Cuban expresso in the universe can be had for less than a buck. One of my sons says our coffee is "liquid crack" you put a drop on your tongue and it wakes you up before you swallow.

Check this out, next time some politically correct guy gives you a spiel on the evils of boxing, tell them this:


Dr. Elwood Jensen, who was a nominee for the Nobel Prize for Physiology of Medicine last year has stated to the very surprised press that he does not credit science with the transforming moment of his life.

He credits boxing.

"I fought in Golden Gloves. I was champion of my school for my weight class,'' he says.

"I was two years younger than everyone in my class,'' he says. "I didn't have self-confidence, even into college. I was shy in all that. When I started going with Mary [his first wife who died in 1982] that helped a little, quite a bit actually, but the other thing that helped was my match in '39.''

"The fellow raised his hands a little bit,'' Dr. Jensen says, raising his hands like a fighter, his cane beside him, neglected. "I hit him in the solar plexus. He went down for the count."

He is reliving the moment. Behind him a two-story window provides the ring's spotlight. "There were 3,000 people there,'' he continues.

"When this shy person's hand was held up over his head'' - he raises his arm above his head, "and all the applause, that was the turning point in my life.''

No bad eh?

[Randyman]

A wise man, your father, Randy. Get that loss out of the way, then settle down and show everyone what you can do. It helped Monzon, Duran and, as you say, Margarito to lose. This obsession with unbeaten records is a curse on the modern game.

Bennie, I believe that the current obsession with remaining undefeated can be traced back to Julio Cesar Chavez. Through no fault of his own, Chavez' quest began a slew of fighters chasing that elusive perfect record. But the quest for the perfect record pales in comparison to the quest to be the "Pound for Pound" best. Which again, was resurrected by Chavez during his reign as "Pound for Pound" champ. I'm not blaming Chavez but I believe that set the precedence.

Whatever happened to just fighting because you are a fighter? What is even more amazing is that all these fighters want that recognition without fighting each other. By the way, in my opinion, it's not up to a fighter to determine if he is the "Pound for Pound" best, that's up to the fans and writers, in other words, anyone but them.

Randy

[Randyman]

I don't like McD's and for coffee I am in Miami, where a cup of the strongest Cuban expresso in the universe can be had for less than a buck. One of my sons says our coffee is "liquid crack" you put a drop on your tongue and it wakes you up before you swallow.

Check this out, next time some politically correct guy gives you a spiel on the evils of boxing, tell them this:


Dr. Elwood Jensen, who was a nominee for the Nobel Prize for Physiology of Medicine last year has stated to the very surprised press that he does not credit science with the transforming moment of his life.

He credits boxing.

"I fought in Golden Gloves. I was champion of my school for my weight class,'' he says.

"I was two years younger than everyone in my class,'' he says. "I didn't have self-confidence, even into college. I was shy in all that. When I started going with Mary [his first wife who died in 1982] that helped a little, quite a bit actually, but the other thing that helped was my match in '39.''

"The fellow raised his hands a little bit,'' Dr. Jensen says, raising his hands like a fighter, his cane beside him, neglected. "I hit him in the solar plexus. He went down for the count."

He is reliving the moment. Behind him a two-story window provides the ring's spotlight. "There were 3,000 people there,'' he continues.

"When this shy person's hand was held up over his head'' - he raises his arm above his head, "and all the applause, that was the turning point in my life.''

No bad eh?

Not bad, Enrique, not bad at all. God Bless Dr. Elwood Jensen. What a success story. Thanks for sharing that with us.

[Randyman]

By the way, Enrique, I have had Cuban coffee. Strong, strong stuff and not for the faint of heart. The Cuban sandwich is a favorite of my wife and I. We go to small Cuban cafe and pastry shop in Downey, California. The sheer amount of different types of pastries is mind boggling.

Randy

[Randyman]

After finding out Kenny Lane had four fights after he turned 50, I started thinking, Hmmmm. What if? Okay, so I'm about 220 right now and getting grayer by the minute. I fought at welterweight but maybe I can make 175. I mean anything's possible, right. So at dinner last night night I said to my wife Jeri "Honey, do you think I'm to old to fight again?" After she stopped choking, or maybe she was laughing, I couldn't quite tell, she said "Don't even think it!" followed by "The look". So just like that my dreams of boxing immortality were shattered, by my own wife no less! Am I the only guy that still thinks like that?