Lewis v Ironfist - What would have happened?

[johnswan1]

Don't see this fight mentioned much on this BB, but I remember it for being one of the most anticipated and exciting of the last few years of Lewis's career. Just wondering what those who remember the fight well think it would have panned out had there not been the cuts stoppage of Ironfist?

Ironfist was 58-56 up on the three judges scorecards at the time of the stoppage in what was a pretty brutal fight. Had it continued I believe it had the potential to be a classic.

Do you think that Lewis had Ironfists number and would have beaten him in that fight had it continued without the cut? Apart from Mercer & Holyfield I believe that this was the most competitive and perhaps most difficult fight of Lewis's career.

As for Ironfist - Boxrec have him ranked 60th. Maybe this is just based on the lack of quality opponents and the injuries he picked up late in his career, but I think he would have been big trouble for ANY top 15 heavyweight in his prime. I'm not saying he would have beaten them all, but apart from the Lewis fight NOBODY was competitive against him. Even in the retirement against Byrd with a shoulder injury he was way ahead on the scorecards.

I know he is coming back now for a proposed fight with Peter. This is an intriging fight in itself but one would have to think he is well past it now having not fought for four years.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Having watched this many times, I believe Lewis would have prevailed.

Vitali had thrown his best shots and hadn't managed to dent Lewis, in fact, by the 3rd, Lewis was walking through Vitali's shots.

Vitali was slowing down and was beginning to ship big punishing shots.

Lewis would have stopped him 2-3 rounds later, I think Vitali had given his best already.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Agreed, what's also interesting is that in round 2 I remember everyone shouting about how Vitali was on the verge of KO'ing Lewis. Watching it again, that wasn't the case at all. Lennox was coming back into it and Vitali was fading. Lewis takes over, but Vitali would have put up some awkward resistance still.

[banjo]

From what I remember(I've only seen it once) just before the stoppage LL was landing some pretty hefty shots at will so I'd be suprised if VK made it to the 10th.
Vitali is massively overrated for his early performance against Lewis and people seem to forget he was being outclassed in the 2 rounds leading up to the stoppage.

[johnswan1]

But wasn't Lewis out of shape and gasping at the end of the 5th or 6th round? Just found the MaxBoxing Round by Round from the time - Probst had given both the 5th and 6th rounds to Ironfist.

Round 1
After an intense staredown, the opening bell. Nice opening right by Lennox as Vitali paws with lead jab. Vitali ties up and Lennox scores first good shot. Both men are poking soft punches out to try and find the distance adjusting to the size of the other. Vitali misses a right cross high on Lennox's guard. Vitali bulls Lennox into the ropes without effective punches. Vitali shoots out a series of punches that don't land clean but they are powerful and back Lewis up. The two trade lefts and Lennox gets the better of the jab exchange. Vitali lands a few good pawing jabs. Good right by Vitali and Lennox seems affected by it. Lennox seems respectful of Vitali's power at this point but it's hard to tell if he's waiting out the opening-round jitters or feeling Vitali out. Huge blazing right misses by Lennox, and a follow-up glances off Vitali's head.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 2
Good pair of jabs by Lennox. They back Vitali up. Good right by Vitali and Lewis clinches. Vitali seems brimming with confidence and is clearly not afraid to let his hands go. Good one-two by Vitali. Gorgeous right cross lead by Vitali, and Lewis is hurt. He seems to have been badly shaken. Lewis smiles in the clinch but Vitali is looking clearly better at this point. Another good right lead, a chopping shot by Vitali. Lewis is unsteady. Vitali isn't explosive or fast but he's persistent and powerful. Lewis lands a nice stiff jab and knocks Vitali back. Solid left from Vitali stumbles Lennox, Lewis trades again and wobbles, and Vitali seems to be feeling Lennox shots but he's fired up. Vitali blocks a monster hook but eats a right, they are trading wildly! Vitali is firing huge and landing solidly! Lennox in bad shape at the bell's end and he's taken a bad pounding. Lennox has taken some good shots though and shown a respectable chin.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 3
Lennox opens with big one-two that smacks Vitali. Vitali seems a little shaken and taken aback. Lennox clearly is trying to establish control of the bout. Vitali is now cut over his left eye and it seems fairly bloody, and it's a deep, wide gash right above the eye, a truly massive one. Huge right from Lennox after Vitali presses forward with a gutty charge. Big right from Vitali. Vitali jabs more and lets his hands go, Lennox seems to be wilting a bit. But Lennox comes back, firing with both hands. It's a serious fight and both men look tired and yet hungry to finish it. Nice right hand by Vitali as Lennox misses a lead punch. Lennox backs Vitali up and eats another right for his efforts. Either guy looks like he could go as both seem to lack balance. Vitali misses a huge overhand right.


Lewis' round, 10-9.

Round 4
Big one-two to open round for Lennox. Vitali goes back, and seems to be fading. They clinch and fall down on the canvas with Lewis on top. Big right from Lennox as Vitali misses a pawing left. Vitali's technique seems to have lost a notch. He's pawing and throwing winging shots. A slow round. Good right for Vitali and Lennox comes back with stiff jab. Lennox clubs a couple rights to belly in close. It's plodding action in this round with little sharp punching thus far. Vitali's damaged eye has not been exploited by Lewis and he may have squandered the chance to end the fight.


Lewis' round, 10-9.

Round 5
Big uppercut from Lewis and resounds audibly. Vitali takes it well. A big hook from Lewis and Vitali takes it well again. Lewis' hands look much faster and sharper this round. He may have taken the last round off. They clinch and Lewis bangs a vicious sequence of eight or so right hands to the ribs. Very nice work. Vitali lands a retaliatory right cross as they are at range again. Lewis is backed into the ropes with a series of clubbing shots. Lewis is pacing himself and taking a minute or two off. Clearly, he's having to pick his spots and his conditioning is not what it should be. Nice three punch combo from Vitali, and a huge right cross from Lennox, and amazingly Vitali barely blinks in taking it. Lennox fires a big right and it misses as Vitali ducks under it.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 6
Good right by Vitali. Another big right by Vitali. Lennox takes them well. Nice one-two by Vitali. He's building a solid points lead in the round. Another good right by Vitali, and Lennox comes up the middle with a massive uppercut and Vitali takes it well. Impressive guts from Vitali. He clearly has a strong chin. His eye and face are a horrible mess, though. A slow middle minute of the round. Lewis is backed up by more mauling shots from Vitali, and Lennox closes out round with a pair of good inside clubbing shots.

Klitschko's round, 10-9.
After the sixth round, the fight is stopped by the doctor and Klitschko protests angrily. It seems a very timely stoppage for Lewis, who literally collapses on his stool at the end of the sixth round.

Maxboxing.com's scorecard has Vitali Klitschko ahead 58-56 at the time of the stoppage.

Klitschko was leading on all three judges' cards, 58-56, at the time of the stoppage.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

But wasn't Lewis out of shape and gasping at the end of the 5th or 6th round? Just found the MaxBoxing Round by Round from the time - Probst had given both the 5th and 6th rounds to Ironfist.

Round 1
After an intense staredown, the opening bell. Nice opening right by Lennox as Vitali paws with lead jab. Vitali ties up and Lennox scores first good shot. Both men are poking soft punches out to try and find the distance adjusting to the size of the other. Vitali misses a right cross high on Lennox's guard. Vitali bulls Lennox into the ropes without effective punches. Vitali shoots out a series of punches that don't land clean but they are powerful and back Lewis up. The two trade lefts and Lennox gets the better of the jab exchange. Vitali lands a few good pawing jabs. Good right by Vitali and Lennox seems affected by it. Lennox seems respectful of Vitali's power at this point but it's hard to tell if he's waiting out the opening-round jitters or feeling Vitali out. Huge blazing right misses by Lennox, and a follow-up glances off Vitali's head.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 2
Good pair of jabs by Lennox. They back Vitali up. Good right by Vitali and Lewis clinches. Vitali seems brimming with confidence and is clearly not afraid to let his hands go. Good one-two by Vitali. Gorgeous right cross lead by Vitali, and Lewis is hurt. He seems to have been badly shaken. Lewis smiles in the clinch but Vitali is looking clearly better at this point. Another good right lead, a chopping shot by Vitali. Lewis is unsteady. Vitali isn't explosive or fast but he's persistent and powerful. Lewis lands a nice stiff jab and knocks Vitali back. Solid left from Vitali stumbles Lennox, Lewis trades again and wobbles, and Vitali seems to be feeling Lennox shots but he's fired up. Vitali blocks a monster hook but eats a right, they are trading wildly! Vitali is firing huge and landing solidly! Lennox in bad shape at the bell's end and he's taken a bad pounding. Lennox has taken some good shots though and shown a respectable chin.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 3
Lennox opens with big one-two that smacks Vitali. Vitali seems a little shaken and taken aback. Lennox clearly is trying to establish control of the bout. Vitali is now cut over his left eye and it seems fairly bloody, and it's a deep, wide gash right above the eye, a truly massive one. Huge right from Lennox after Vitali presses forward with a gutty charge. Big right from Vitali. Vitali jabs more and lets his hands go, Lennox seems to be wilting a bit. But Lennox comes back, firing with both hands. It's a serious fight and both men look tired and yet hungry to finish it. Nice right hand by Vitali as Lennox misses a lead punch. Lennox backs Vitali up and eats another right for his efforts. Either guy looks like he could go as both seem to lack balance. Vitali misses a huge overhand right.


Lewis' round, 10-9.

Round 4
Big one-two to open round for Lennox. Vitali goes back, and seems to be fading. They clinch and fall down on the canvas with Lewis on top. Big right from Lennox as Vitali misses a pawing left. Vitali's technique seems to have lost a notch. He's pawing and throwing winging shots. A slow round. Good right for Vitali and Lennox comes back with stiff jab. Lennox clubs a couple rights to belly in close. It's plodding action in this round with little sharp punching thus far. Vitali's damaged eye has not been exploited by Lewis and he may have squandered the chance to end the fight.


Lewis' round, 10-9.

Round 5
Big uppercut from Lewis and resounds audibly. Vitali takes it well. A big hook from Lewis and Vitali takes it well again. Lewis' hands look much faster and sharper this round. He may have taken the last round off. They clinch and Lewis bangs a vicious sequence of eight or so right hands to the ribs. Very nice work. Vitali lands a retaliatory right cross as they are at range again. Lewis is backed into the ropes with a series of clubbing shots. Lewis is pacing himself and taking a minute or two off. Clearly, he's having to pick his spots and his conditioning is not what it should be. Nice three punch combo from Vitali, and a huge right cross from Lennox, and amazingly Vitali barely blinks in taking it. Lennox fires a big right and it misses as Vitali ducks under it.


Klitschko's round, 10-9.

Round 6
Good right by Vitali. Another big right by Vitali. Lennox takes them well. Nice one-two by Vitali. He's building a solid points lead in the round. Another good right by Vitali, and Lennox comes up the middle with a massive uppercut and Vitali takes it well. Impressive guts from Vitali. He clearly has a strong chin. His eye and face are a horrible mess, though. A slow middle minute of the round. Lewis is backed up by more mauling shots from Vitali, and Lennox closes out round with a pair of good inside clubbing shots.

Klitschko's round, 10-9.
After the sixth round, the fight is stopped by the doctor and Klitschko protests angrily. It seems a very timely stoppage for Lewis, who literally collapses on his stool at the end of the sixth round.

Maxboxing.com's scorecard has Vitali Klitschko ahead 58-56 at the time of the stoppage.

Klitschko was leading on all three judges' cards, 58-56, at the time of the stoppage.

Disagree with Round 6, I'd definately give that 1 to Lewis, Vitali did little in the round and Lewis landed the telling shots. Lewis without doubt was tiring but so was Vitali who looked to be holding allot in the 6th. Lewis hardly collapsed at the end of the 6th, thats editoral bias right there, heres rounds 5 and 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6SlHggAJoY

End of the day Lewis was nearly 38, and clearly didnt have the same stamina/speed he had 5-7years earlier. But Vitali was boxing better, showing better stamina and countering better. Lewis was landing the most telling shots

[DavidPayne]

Lewis was coming on. Both were blowing but Lewis greater natural strength, timing and ability were beginning to tell.

Klitschko was in the fight, and leading quite possibly, but he didn't have the momentum IMO.

I'd go for Klitschko quitting in the 10th.

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, Lewis had the momentum, Klit was blowing and he'd have been finished around the ninth if not before.

[johnswan1]

I'm surprised to see so many people convinced that a Lewis victory would have been the most likely outcome. As robotic as Ironfist could looked against Lewis's more natural althletics, I still felt he had more in the tank than Lewis, who was further from his prime and apparently overweight and underprepared. That is probably the last genuinely exciting heavyweight encounter I have seen that anybody cared about.

[mrbassie]

I think the most likely outcome is it just would have been stopped a little later on for precisely the same reasons. The guy had six cuts and they were only going to get worse. Stopped in the seventh or eighth due to Klitschko's face falling off.

[Captain Hook]

I'm surprised to see so many people convinced that a Lewis victory would have been the most likely outcome. As robotic as Ironfist could looked against Lewis's more natural althletics, I still felt he had more in the tank than Lewis, who was further from his prime and apparently overweight and underprepared. That is probably the last genuinely exciting heavyweight encounter I have seen that anybody cared about.

You like Klitshko don't you mate, just replied to you on the other thread!

Yeah he was better than most out there but there's been nothing out there since Lewis. We'll never know what would have happened but Lewis had the upper hand, was connecting with big shots and had done the distance plenty of times. He'd have won by TKO in my opinion.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I think the most likely outcome is it just would have been stopped a little later on for precisely the same reasons. The guy had six cuts and they were only going to get worse. Stopped in the seventh or eighth due to Klitschko's face falling off.

Yeah, can you imagine how horrific that cut would have got if the fight had been allowed to continue? It would have been shocking. It's incredibly disappointing in hindsight that it had to be stopped, but unfortunately it was the only decision.

[Asterix]

I think the most likely outcome is it just would have been stopped a little later on for precisely the same reasons. The guy had six cuts and they were only going to get worse. Stopped in the seventh or eighth due to Klitschko's face falling off.

Agreed.

[MightyWarrior]

I had the impression Lewis wasn't really prepared for it, he looked wild in there at times, tiring and wide open, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see Vitali twat him later on, bar the cuts.

A real true champ though, the way he took on his main challenger at such short notice, turning what was shaping up to be a non event routine defence against a fat yank (I think?) into a near superfight.

[Max Molyneux]

After round 3 Lewis was winning the rest of the rounds and that cut could of gotten worse for Vitali If the fight was allowed to continue.

Vitali would of been stopped anyway.

[DavidPayne]

I had the impression Lewis wasn't really prepared for it, he looked wild in there at times, tiring and wide open, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see Vitali twat him later on, bar the cuts.

A real true champ though, the way he took on his main challenger at such short notice, turning what was shaping up to be a non event routine defence against a fat yank (I think?) into a near superfight.

I think this performance alongside the Ray Mercer one showed Lewis had bigger balls than many give him credit for. I like the fact despite being 10pounds out of shape, poorly focussed and blowing out of his arse, he didn't go over, he dug deep into his reserves and started smacking VK around in an old fashioned fist fight. Not technical, not deliberate or overly cautious. Just throwing big solid shots in close.

His self-belief was growing and I think he knew VK was ebbing away. VK wasn't accustomed to hitting heavyweights with everything and then seeing them firing back. Lewis had been in with Tua, Mercer and Holyfield by then, and in the latter pairing he hit them plenty and had to keep plugging away.

Even without cuts. Lewis would have won the fight. But punches caused the cuts. People forget.

[DavidPayne]

Rants are good my unshaven friend.

[MightyWarrior]

Listen, I'm as big a fan of Lewis as anyone, and the yanks who say he was an average fighter are best ignored ( like that prick Wally Matthews for instance ). I remember popping into Maloney's office to pick up a poster for his debut fight, listening to Frank tell us how this guy was going to be the next great HW - then going to the Albert Hall to witness his launch and thinking hmmmm not sure about that....
But watching bug eyed as he laid out Razor changed all that. The real deal no doubt about it.

But he was so careless at times, such as in the Vitali fight I thought, and like you say, his legs looked gone. So considering guys like McCall and Rahman could catch him, I think there's a chance a better/younger fighter like Vitali could have caught up to him as well.
But of course LL never gave him a chance to, and won fair and square - no arguments there.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I'm partly wondering if the opinions on here are what people want to believe rather than what really was happening. Lets say theoretically Vitali didnt cut at all. Lewis was looking tired, flatfooted, frankly old, getting countered, outworked and having problems with Vitalis height. But in round 6 both looked a big shagged, so it probably would have sea sawed back an forth Vitali landing more and Lewis landing bigger. Lewis was not steamrolling his way to victory in round 5-6 at all, watch the last 2 rounds again on youtube and tell me thats the case. Now maybe Lewis would have kept landing hue shots like that huge uppercut and Vitali would have succumbed, but thats conjecture.

[Asterix]

I'm partly wondering if the opinions on here are what people want to believe rather than what really was happening. Lets say theoretically Vitali didnt cut at all. Lewis was looking tired, flatfooted, frankly old, getting countered, outworked and having problems with Vitalis height. But in round 6 both looked a big shagged, so it probably would have sea sawed back an forth Vitali landing more and Lewis landing bigger. Lewis was not steamrolling his way to victory in round 5-6 at all, watch the last 2 rounds again on youtube and tell me thats the case. Now maybe Lewis would have kept landing hue shots like that huge uppercut and Vitali would have succumbed, but thats conjecture.

Except that Klitschko was always going to get cut. It wasn't just one cut. His face was in tatters.

[overhand_right]

Lewis was fat and old, and had trained half-arsed for an easy payday v Kirk Johnson, and STILL he ate Vitalis best whacks.

Like most here, think it was just a contrived controversy to make a story / make a new star. Vitali K was on his way out, LL was going to clobber him.

LL also did all that horrific damage with his fists, which decided the fight.

[Lenny]

If Khan hadn't got knocked out by Prescott I feel he would definitely have won the fight.

[johnswan1]

If Khan hadn't got knocked out by Prescott I feel he would definitely have won the fight.

Hi - have you taken drugs or have you accidentally posted that in the wrong thread?

[overhand_right]

He was joking.

[mrbassie]

I'm partly wondering if the opinions on here are what people want to believe rather than what really was happening. Lets say theoretically Vitali didnt cut at all. Lewis was looking tired, flatfooted, frankly old, getting countered, outworked and having problems with Vitalis height. But in round 6 both looked a big shagged, so it probably would have sea sawed back an forth Vitali landing more and Lewis landing bigger. Lewis was not steamrolling his way to victory in round 5-6 at all, watch the last 2 rounds again on youtube and tell me thats the case. Now maybe Lewis would have kept landing hue shots like that huge uppercut and Vitali would have succumbed, but thats conjecture.

I really think Lewis was on the ascendancy after watching that fight repeatedly. Lewis was knackered in the sixth and Klitschko was tired too but he was also very groggy, he looked smegged walking back to his corner and seemed completely unaware that the doctor was looking him over. Lewis was tired but his head was clear. Something nobody else ever mentions (so I always do) is that his cutman put butterfly stitches on his face before the doctor even came near him, of course he's not allowed to fight with those on his face and I imagine removing them before sending him out is only going to exacerbate the problem. I think his corner were going to pull him out anyway.