How about a fantasy fight with two all-time greats of the same era which was scheduled but cancelled?
Benny Leonard v. Mickey Walker on August 20, 1924 at Yankee Stadium for Walker's world welterweight title.
Historical note: On July 1, 1924, Jimmy Johnston announced that he was negotiating a bout between Leonard and Walker. Tex Rickard soon got into the mix, and signed the fight for August 21, 1924 at Boyle's Thirty Acres in Jersey City. Ultimately, Rickard sold promotional rights in the bout back to Jimmy Johnston, who announced he would hold it in Yankee Stadium on August 20, 1924. (Interesting tidbit: The NY Commission approved the bout only if the contract included a clause requiring the winner to fight Dave Shade for the title.)
In the meantime, Leonard had not boxed since 1923, and manager Billy Gibson arranged a tune-up against Pal Moran in Cleveland on August 11, 1924. Although Leonard won the decision, he badly hurt his right thumb, and the promoter agreed to postpone the match to late September. However, Leonard's hand failed to heal in a timely fashion and five physicians appointed by the NYSAC determined that Leonard could not fight again that year. On September 6, 1924, the NYSAC approved cancellation of the bout.
Leonard announced his retirement in January 1925, claiming that his career had created too much stress for his mother, and he was concerned that the stress was ruining her health.
Fantasy Bout: Benny Leonard v. Mickey Walker, 8-20-1924
Re: Fantasy Bout: Benny Leonard v. Mickey Walker, 8-20-1924
I think Leonard was a true p4p great in every sense of the word but I think at this point he saw the writing on the wall. He was going to end up being forced to fight Walker or look like a dog after having fought everybody of note for years. I think he was at a point where Walker would have been too much and rather than hurt his legacy or his record he retired. He was between a rock and a hard place. I think Walker wins this one. It would be competetive but I think Walker would wear Leonard down and either stop him late or issue an increasingly one sided beating over the final rounds. Not taking anything away from Leonard who earlier in his career might have been able to make Walker look silly.
Re: Fantasy Bout: Benny Leonard v. Mickey Walker, 8-20-1924
Ahhh, great pick, a fantasy bout that makes sense...
These two guys sort of get overlooked in those top 10 p4p debates.
Both men were giants of their eras. The fact that Benny is moving up against a naturally bigger and younger man makes me think that he can't win this one.
When you see what Walker achieved in the higher weight divisions I imagine him to be a monster at 147. Yet his record shows a number of defeats. Maybe someone here and can shed some light on this early inconsistency.
These two guys sort of get overlooked in those top 10 p4p debates.
Both men were giants of their eras. The fact that Benny is moving up against a naturally bigger and younger man makes me think that he can't win this one.
When you see what Walker achieved in the higher weight divisions I imagine him to be a monster at 147. Yet his record shows a number of defeats. Maybe someone here and can shed some light on this early inconsistency.
Re: Fantasy Bout: Benny Leonard v. Mickey Walker, 8-20-1924
This is a fight that I think about a lot because it really could have happened. And but for a fractured knuckle, it would have happened.
I go back and forth on it. Tomorrow, I might have a different answer, but today I would pick Leonard to win by decision.
Here’s why:
1. Lots of folks assume that Leonard was on the downside of his career in 1924; after all, he had been fighting since 1911. But Benny turned pro at age 15, and was 28 in 1924. According to all of the accounts I have read from that era, Benny was at his absolute best in 1922-1923. He had shown no signs of slippage, and may have been one of the few champions to retire at the height of his powers. I do not believe Walker would have faced a diminished Benny Leonard.
2. Walker, on the other hand, had a series of tough bouts in 1925-1926 against Pete Latzo, Dave Shade, Joe Dundee, Harry Greb and Tiger Flowers, losing the Latzo, Greb and Dundee.
3. We perceive that since the middleweight Walker fought successfully against heavyweights, that he might overwhelm Leonard with superior fire power. Yet, if you look over the entirety of his 130+ record, only two of his kayo victims – Mike McTigue and Tommy Milligan – were really top drawer fighters. (Yes, I know the record shows he stopped Dave Shade, but Shade broke his arm or hand - I can't remember which - and that prompted the stoppage). I think Benny could handle Walker’s power. Leonard had a good chin (only four stoppages in his career - three early and one when he was w - a - y over the hill against McLarnin in his comeback).
5. Walker would have been bigger and stronger. But Leonard never won fights by outmuscling his opponent. Leonard would have worked to outbox Mickey.
6. Leonard also had an advantage in reach (71" to 67-1/2"), which lends some support to idea that a slick Leonard could have successfully outboxed Walker.
7. Benny had the edge in experience. Going into an August, 1924 bout, Leonard would have had 13 years of pro experience over nearly 200 fights; Walker would have had 6 years of pro experience over nearly 80 bouts.
Today, I’d take Leonard by a decision.
I go back and forth on it. Tomorrow, I might have a different answer, but today I would pick Leonard to win by decision.
Here’s why:
1. Lots of folks assume that Leonard was on the downside of his career in 1924; after all, he had been fighting since 1911. But Benny turned pro at age 15, and was 28 in 1924. According to all of the accounts I have read from that era, Benny was at his absolute best in 1922-1923. He had shown no signs of slippage, and may have been one of the few champions to retire at the height of his powers. I do not believe Walker would have faced a diminished Benny Leonard.
2. Walker, on the other hand, had a series of tough bouts in 1925-1926 against Pete Latzo, Dave Shade, Joe Dundee, Harry Greb and Tiger Flowers, losing the Latzo, Greb and Dundee.
3. We perceive that since the middleweight Walker fought successfully against heavyweights, that he might overwhelm Leonard with superior fire power. Yet, if you look over the entirety of his 130+ record, only two of his kayo victims – Mike McTigue and Tommy Milligan – were really top drawer fighters. (Yes, I know the record shows he stopped Dave Shade, but Shade broke his arm or hand - I can't remember which - and that prompted the stoppage). I think Benny could handle Walker’s power. Leonard had a good chin (only four stoppages in his career - three early and one when he was w - a - y over the hill against McLarnin in his comeback).
5. Walker would have been bigger and stronger. But Leonard never won fights by outmuscling his opponent. Leonard would have worked to outbox Mickey.
6. Leonard also had an advantage in reach (71" to 67-1/2"), which lends some support to idea that a slick Leonard could have successfully outboxed Walker.
7. Benny had the edge in experience. Going into an August, 1924 bout, Leonard would have had 13 years of pro experience over nearly 200 fights; Walker would have had 6 years of pro experience over nearly 80 bouts.
Today, I’d take Leonard by a decision.