A Joe Louis Question.

[KOJOE90]

I'm currently reading a book on Rocky Marciano, in this book there is quite a bit of interesting information on Joe Louis. In this book it states that before Joe Louis won the Heavyweight Title against Braddock he had only faced one black opponent as a Pro.

Can anyone conferm this?

If this is true, why? There must have been countless black fighters for Louis to face. Or was the Jack Johson backlash so intense there were no rated black fighters for Louis to beat to impove his ratings?

Or was even the great Joe Louis protected as a ypung fighter?

Any info fight fans?

[wouter]

As far as I know Willie Davis was the only black fighter Louis faced before he won the title. Leading up to his title shot Louis was matched tougher than any other champion I can think of.
I think the reason Louis didn't face any black fighter is that they weren't rated that high and there wasn't much money in it anyway. The reason he fought Willie Davis two times, is because he was a friend of Louis.

[Marciano Frazier]

I'm currently reading a book on Rocky Marciano, in this book there is quite a bit of interesting information on Joe Louis. In this book it states that before Joe Louis won the Heavyweight Title against Braddock he had only faced one black opponent as a Pro.

Can anyone conferm this?

If this is true, why? There must have been countless black fighters for Louis to face. Or was the Jack Johson backlash so intense there were no rated black fighters for Louis to beat to impove his ratings?

Or was even the great Joe Louis protected as a ypung fighter?

Any info fight fans?

Most fighters were white in those days. What's so strange about that? How are you protected if you don't fight black fighters, but instead fight the white fighters of the day, who are BETTER than the black fighters? Are you inferring that Louis should have stooped down in opposition again after his early fights and fought a lot of the black journeymen and bums who were around at the time? Marciano fought mostly white fighters, too, and there were no color barriers or racist ratings at the time of his career at all. Up until the late '50s, most fighters were white, and most of the best fighters were white. It doesn't make any difference at all whether Louis' opponents were white or black or green or orange. He beat the best around, and that's what matters.

[KOJOE90]

I'm currently reading a book on Rocky Marciano, in this book there is quite a bit of interesting information on Joe Louis. In this book it states that before Joe Louis won the Heavyweight Title against Braddock he had only faced one black opponent as a Pro.

Can anyone conferm this?

If this is true, why? There must have been countless black fighters for Louis to face. Or was the Jack Johson backlash so intense there were no rated black fighters for Louis to beat to impove his ratings?

Or was even the great Joe Louis protected as a ypung fighter?

Any info fight fans?

Most fighters were white in those days. What's so strange about that? How are you protected if you don't fight black fighters, but instead fight the white fighters of the day, who are BETTER than the black fighters? Are you inferring that Louis should have stooped down in opposition again after his early fights and fought a lot of the black journeymen and bums who were around at the time? Marciano fought mostly white fighters, too, and there were no color barriers or racist ratings at the time of his career at all. Up until the late '50s, most fighters were white, and most of the best fighters were white. It doesn't make any difference at all whether Louis' opponents were white or black or green or orange. He beat the best around, and that's what matters.

Wow hang on MF, you seemed to have misunderstood by post somewhat.

Of course I realise there were a lot of white fighters around in the Louis era many of Italian, Irish, Polish etc origins. And of course I agree that a ambitious fighter should fight the best around regardless of ethnic background that's only right and just.

The point of my initial post was I was just a little suprised at Louis after about 35 fights had only fought on other black fighter, and I was just curious if anyone knew if it was due to:-

There where few black fighters highly rated due to a colour line (which was a vile evil thing) for Louis to beat and thus improve his own World rating.

Money, I've read that, Pre WW2 some promoters felt there was little money in two Black guys fighting. in the same way as in the USA at the same time there was sometimes little interst in having a main event with two non-Americains.

Maybe me tagging on the "was Loius protected" seemed a little flippent for which I apolagise, I was just thinking out load and looking to open a debate, that's all.

[dempseyfire]

I'm currently reading a book on Rocky Marciano, in this book there is quite a bit of interesting information on Joe Louis. In this book it states that before Joe Louis won the Heavyweight Title against Braddock he had only faced one black opponent as a Pro.

Can anyone conferm this?

If this is true, why? There must have been countless black fighters for Louis to face. Or was the Jack Johson backlash so intense there were no rated black fighters for Louis to beat to impove his ratings?

Or was even the great Joe Louis protected as a ypung fighter?

Any info fight fans?

Most fighters were white in those days. What's so strange about that? How are you protected if you don't fight black fighters, but instead fight the white fighters of the day, who are BETTER than the black fighters? Are you inferring that Louis should have stooped down in opposition again after his early fights and fought a lot of the black journeymen and bums who were around at the time? Marciano fought mostly white fighters, too, and there were no color barriers or racist ratings at the time of his career at all. Up until the late '50s, most fighters were white, and most of the best fighters were white. It doesn't make any difference at all whether Louis' opponents were white or black or green or orange. He beat the best around, and that's what matters.

What's up MF?

I agree that the top HWs of the time were white but you're post seems to precede that all black HWs of the 30s-40s were bums, which is far from the truth. The main reason Louis fought very few black HWs was that the black boxing scene, esp. at HW, post-Johnson was very seedy and shady with many fighters taking dives and basically selling themselves, as the prospect of a black fighter actually getting to the championship was percieved as ridiculous. Larry Gaines and Godfrey were two heavily talanted black HWs who took loads of dives and thrown fights b/c that made them more money then actually winning. By the time Louis was coming up Godfrey was at the twilight of his careers (Gaines was fighting in Europe) and besides those two there wern't any other black HWs who really distinguished themselves from the pack. The applied to Louis's championship run, although a good case can be made the Louis should've been fighting Elmer Ray rather then the likes of Tony Musto. But Walcott eventually beat Ray in 47, and Louis fought him the same year, so any accusations of Louis ducking black fighters is mute.

[TWAN OVERTON]

I personally don't know much about Mr Lewis other than what I remember my grandfather saying to me as an younglady in my twenties. But there were good african-american fighters back in the day.I do remember him telling me his camp was very selective on picking his fights and was sure to avoid those whom they felt may of upset the balance. Mr Lewis was offered a few times a nice sum of money to fight my granddad even though they were friends. They declined A gentleman by the name of Bob Roth wrote a very nice article about my granddad and that's mentioned in the article. I am trying to gather these few things I have to send them along the way to a few people who have requested them, along with the picture of Mr lewis and my grandfather real soon.
But the one clipping I am looking at states that in 1937 lewis was offered 100,00 by a pittsburgh promoter and 50,000 by Mr Ben Kleckner who managed my pops and both were declined. Doesnt seem like chump change to me?? Twan Overton

[Jaclem]

....i don't know about yur grandad but the joe louis record is there in the books. he fought just about every top ten contender on his way to the title...including five former world champions...and he gave every deserving rated challenger....along with some undeserving...a chance..and some of them twice.

i'm not doubting your family's history...i'd just like to know more about your grandfather.

[robert.snell1]

....i don't know about yur grandad but the joe louis record is there in the books. he fought just about every top ten contender on his way to the title...including five former world champions...and he gave every deserving rated challenger....along with some undeserving...a chance..and some of them twice.

i'm not doubting your family's history...i'd just like to know more about your grandfather.

I have been looking up some news items for her and pops was quite a guy. The wiki bio of him is very interesting.

[barry]

Roscoe Toles was black There were quite a few African-American fighters that Joe Louis failed to meet a lot of whom I believe would have given the “Brown Bomber” some quality opposition more so than some of the fighters that he defended the title against. Like Twan's grandfather, Jack Trammell was a really good heavyweight that I would have liked to see Louis fight. Some others that come to mind are Leroy Haynes, Jimmy Bivins, Larry Gains, Harry Bobo, Unknown Winston, “Tiger” Jack Fox, Seal Harris, Lem Franklin, George Godfrey, Buddy Walker, Curtis Sheppard to name a few of the top guys. There were also some very good colored light heavyweights who may have given Louis a tough time as well. Was Louis protected, certainly, to an extent, but regardless I don’t think anyone of that era could beat Joe Louis at the top of his game!

[Sweet Scientist]

I personally don't know much about Mr Lewis other than what I remember my grandfather saying to me as an younglady in my twenties. But there were good african-american fighters back in the day.I do remember him telling me his camp was very selective on picking his fights and was sure to avoid those whom they felt may of upset the balance. Mr Lewis was offered a few times a nice sum of money to fight my granddad even though they were friends. They declined A gentleman by the name of Bob Roth wrote a very nice article about my granddad and that's mentioned in the article. I am trying to gather these few things I have to send them along the way to a few people who have requested them, along with the picture of Mr lewis and my grandfather real soon.
But the one clipping I am looking at states that in 1937 lewis was offered 100,00 by a pittsburgh promoter and 50,000 by Mr Ben Kleckner who managed my pops and both were declined. Doesnt seem like chump change to me?? Twan Overton

Who was your grandfather? Any chance of posting the picture you refer to?