Ernie Terrell v Muhammad Ali

[observer1]

Ernie Terrel, an incredibly under-rated fighter against a Prime Muhammad Ali.
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An infamous fight where Terrel Called Muhammed Ali by his old name : Cassius Clay.

Ali insisted Terrel call Ali by his real name (Ali), and not by his old name: Clay. Terrel refused. Ali insisted he would punish Terrel.

In their fight, Ali Punished Terrel, occasionaly Taunting Terrel: " What's my name? What's my name? "

Ali was critisized for Punishing Terrel.

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I feel Ali was Har-Done. He was treated as a bully. IMO, The referee could have stopped the fight easily had he felt the fight had gone on long enough, similarly, the corener could ave pulled Terrel out.

At the same time Terrel was a little hard-done, since he may have said Cassius Clay initially by accident.

Both at the end are however, Legends. Terrel being a very under-rated one.

[Robinson]

Terrel just got out classed. I dont really care for the sensationalism
of Terrel not using Ali's new name. Who cares...

It was a fight against two greats of the 1960s that turned into a
boring one sided match, that exposed the awkwardness of Terrel.

Ali looked great in this fight. Unfortunately for Terrel, who had some
good wins and great fights, the casual fans only remember him for
this fight because the 'great' Ali taught him a lesson.

[Expug]

Ive met Terrell a few times.
He was a boxing promoter here in Chicago for many years after his retirement.
In fact, I think that throughout the seventies he was the only promoter in town.
In the eighties Cedric Kushner came into town and started putting on fights and that was competition for Ernie.
I fought on some of Kushners cards.Ernie would put on shows at the old Aragon Ballroom, and Kushners were at the Congress Americana Hotel.They would put on cards elsewhere on occasion but those were the main spots.
I always thought Ernie was a nice guy .Frankly, Im real skeptical of whether Ernie insulted Ali.I know the story is the Terrell wouldnt call him by his new name and all that, but Im still not sure.
Like I said Ernie seemed like a quiet guy who really didnt have an Axe to grind with Ali or anybody.
What Im saying is, he didnt seem like a shit talker.
Who knows?

[Robinson]

Pug

Id say the whole thing is over blown hype by people from the Ali
camp to sell the fight, make it more dramatic.

Even if he didnt call him by his new name, so what. I get called nasty
names all the time, they are just words. At times Ali seems somewhat
tempermental when it comes to him coping crap, even though he is
quite happy to dish it out.

In more recent interviews Terrel seems like a big gentle giant. I am not
a big fan of watching him fight, but I do not question his talent.

[Expug]

Pug

Id say the whole thing is over blown hype by people from the Ali
camp to sell the fight, make it more dramatic.

Even if he didnt call him by his new name, so what. I get called nasty
names all the time, they are just words. At times Ali seems somewhat
tempermental when it comes to him coping crap, even though he is
quite happy to dish it out.

In more recent interviews Terrel seems like a big gentle giant. I am not
a big fan of watching him fight, but I do not question his talent.

Exactly how I would describe him Kym"a gentle giant".
There are so many legends and stories etc in boxing, who knows whether half the stuff is true or not? Theres a lot of hype man. Lots of hype.
It makes it the most colorful exciting sport around I guess.
Look, in my experience around fighters, they are guys who are not really gonna give a f..k if a guy changes his name or not.
They are thinking about more important things.
Maybe Terrells words will show up on a youtube video somewhere and I'll be wrong. I would be surprised though.

[Robinson]

Terrel most likely did not take any notice of the new name and knew
Ali as Clay..the name he won the olympic gold and world title under
thats all one needs to remember.

Maybe it was a big thing for Ali...but I am sure to Terrel, Patterson,
etc it meant very little. They may have kept their 'slave names' but
neither one of them were ever close to being enslaved.

You come across Terrel much these days ?

[Expug]

Kym, I dont think Ernie promotes boxing anymore.
I dont know what he is doing these days.
The last time I saw him was the eighties.
Seems strange, it doesnt seem that long ago.

[Robinson]

Pug

I think the doco that he was on, was filmed in the late
1990s, maybe early 00's. He looked ok in it.
Its amazing that such a tall guy like that fought in the
early 200s.

[Expug]

Its amazing he fought at that weight.
Ernie is a BIG guy.
Of course, I met him long after his career was over, and he was much heavier, but nevertheless, its hard to figure.
I didnt see the doco about him. Did it mention his promoting days?
He promoted many many fights.
Some guys who fought on his cards.
Johnny Lira
John Collins
Leroy Murphy
Warren Thunder
Luke Capuano
George Mostardini
Pete Podgorski- A great ref nowadays
Tom "Roughouse" Fisher
Lenny Lapaglia
Harlen Holden
Waune Lynum
Leroy Murphy
Johnny Heard
Randy Smith
Danny Blake

Many many more clubfighters from all over the midwest

[Robinson]

Nah the doco was about him and Ali. As usual. No one is
that interesting as to make a doco about other boxers
other than Ali or Tyson.

would be interesting in itself to see a doco or read a book
about his promotions alone, not to mention his boxing career.

[My2Sense]

I thought this fight was Ali's best performance.

Terrell did seem to choke a bit IMO. He was tentative from the get-go, and didn't really try to make his fight.

Personally, I feel Terrell was a bit of a creation by the WBA. He was his era's John Ruiz, in a sense. After Ali was stripped for some completely nonsensical reason, the WBA fed Terrell a faded Eddie Machen (who had just lost a lackluster fight to Floyd Patterson) and Terrell just leaned and held his way to an unimpressive win. He followed up with other unimpressive stinker performances against Chuvalo (some people even thought Chuvalo won) and Doug Jones (who was past his peak as a contender), and after that it seemed he was "exposed" by Ali and Thad Spencer, and then quickly faded out of the title scene.

[Ambling Alp]

Terrell is a hard guy to rate. He stuggled some in his early years, but did seem to hit his stride.
He did beat Cleveland Williams (avenging an earlier KO loss to Williams) and Zora Folley before he won the bogus WBA title.
As mentioned he beat Machen for the title. While Machen was still a contender, he was starting to slip.
Doug Jones still considered a contender when Terrell beat him, but hadn't beaten anyone of consequence in a while.
Terrell did seem to fall apart after losing to Ali.
He wasn't a real champion, and he certainly wasn't the most exciting fighter in the world. (one of the few fighters capable of making a fight with George Chuvalo seem boring.)
However, for a while, he was probably the 2nd best heavyweight in the world. He had some nice wins. That has to count for something.

[overhand_right]

Terrell was only hurt twice in the fight. Rest of the time he was mostly trying, unsucessfylly, to push the fight.

Cant see any justification in stopping Terrell.

Terrell was boring and a paper champ, but effective in his dull way.

[overhand_right]

FYI gents, in his post fight interview Terrell did say to Howard Cossell 'His name is STILL Cassius Clay!!'

[Robinson]

FYI gents, in his post fight interview Terrell did say to Howard Cossell 'His name is STILL Cassius Clay!!'

He is a truely evil man...saying...saying 'Cassius Clay'...does he have
no respect. Ali would have been justified in murdering him for that
insult.

[dempseyfire]

I thought this fight was Ali's best performance.

Terrell did seem to choke a bit IMO. He was tentative from the get-go, and didn't really try to make his fight.

Personally, I feel Terrell was a bit of a creation by the WBA. He was his era's John Ruiz, in a sense. After Ali was stripped for some completely nonsensical reason, the WBA fed Terrell a faded Eddie Machen (who had just lost a lackluster fight to Floyd Patterson) and Terrell just leaned and held his way to an unimpressive win. He followed up with other unimpressive stinker performances against Chuvalo (some people even thought Chuvalo won) and Doug Jones (who was past his peak as a contender), and after that it seemed he was "exposed" by Ali and Thad Spencer, and then quickly faded out of the title scene.

I wouldn't say that at all. He beat a good swath of the division starting with the Williams victory (a pre-shooting Williams BTW). Folley was still near his peak, and Machen was slipping but still a top contender. Then you had Chuvalo, Jones, and an unsuccessful move-up from a pre-title Bob Foster. Yes, he did hot and hold a good deal in some fights, but compared to a Ruiz or Rahman he wasn't nearly as bad. He had great stamina, an excellent stiff left jab, and good handspeed/combination punching. I also thought his fight with Spencer was extremely close and really could've gone either way. Cossel and the crowd loathed Ernie so much they seemed oblivious that he was still scoring as much as Spencer.

Besides Liston I view Terrell as Ali's best 1960s opponent and a very impressive performance.

[Robinson]

I agree that terrel was one of Ali's best wins at the time. He
dominated and controlled most of the fight. A great win over a
'boring' though talented man.

[pete]

This fight is being shown oct 3 at 12 a.m. cst on ESPN classic.Show is an hour so at least a round or two will be cut but better than not seeing it at all I suppose.

[overhand_right]

FYI gents, in his post fight interview Terrell did say to Howard Cossell 'His name is STILL Cassius Clay!!'

He is a truely evil man...saying...saying 'Cassius Clay'...does he have
no respect. Ali would have been justified in murdering him for that
insult.

I wasn't criticising him for it in anyway, just clarifying it as i saw the fight last week and members here were discussing whether the name controversy truly took place. It did. Frankly though, i dont personally care, i like both guys. Mwah x

[Robinson]

just love ok :)

[TigerMoth]

Just in the last couple of weeks, I saw an interview of Terrell. I think its on youtube.

Really laid back nice guy. He basically said, if I remember correctly, he had met Ali a long time before and knew him as Cassius Clay. And, Ali had just recently changed his name. Basically, he was saying it was no big deal to him, he wasn't trying to insult Ali.

He said he currently owns a building cleaning company and does pretty well.

No animosity towards Ali at all and from what I could tell, just a nice guy with no animosity towards anyone.

I was really impressed with the fact that he just seemed to be a very laid back, nice guy.

[Robinson]

Thats the impression I got also from clips I saw of him during
and interview. Even when he was younger, from what I have
seen ( as I have never met the man) he seems very laid back
easy going and genuine.

[observer1]

Indeed. Unforunate for Terrel, like other talents boxers, he was fighting in the 70's. The Peak of HW Boxing.

Can't help but think he would clean up todays HW division without a drop of sweat.

[overhand_right]

I'm sure one of his left hooks would bounce Wlad K.