I am reading the late great Archie Moore`s autobiography, Any Boy Can.
There are two things I would like to find out more about, firstly is the A.B.C. he set up still about in America.
And secondly a different sort of question, when he fought Marciano he noticed the Rocks seconds covertly rubbed Vaseline onto Marciano `s face and neck before the fight got underway.
Archie saw this as underhand and against the rules, so much so his seconds brought it to the referee `s attention.
Nowadays Vaseline is used as a basic part of the kit, but for how long has it been used on the face as a norm in boxing?
2 questions about Archie Moore.
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Marciano Frazier
- Heavyweight
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Re: 2 questions about Archie Moore.
I don't know about the A.B.C. thing.tonyevs wrote:I am reading the late great Archie Moore`s autobiography, Any Boy Can.
There are two things I would like to find out more about, firstly is the A.B.C. he set up still about in America.
And secondly a different sort of question, when he fought Marciano he noticed the Rocks seconds covertly rubbed Vaseline onto Marciano `s face and neck before the fight got underway.
Archie saw this as underhand and against the rules, so much so his seconds brought it to the referee `s attention.
Nowadays Vaseline is used as a basic part of the kit, but for how long has it been used on the face as a norm in boxing?
As for vaseline, that's very odd. I've never heard of rubbing vaseline on a fighter being illegal. I don't even know why Moore would really care. Vaseline can help you not get cut, as I understand, but it hardly provides you with any major advantage. Marciano's camp must not have thought it was illegal if they were doing it in plain sight right in front of Moore, so much so that he himself could see it and realize what they were doing. However, it would be strange for a veteran like Moore to not know the rules in a case like that.
i saw that fight and have it on tape and there's no complaint recorded and i don't recall it at the time. sometimes referees will have the corner wipe what the ref thinks is EXCESSIVE use.... and if archie's corner did complain it might have breen about this. probably it was just an archie ploy to get the marciano people upset...archid did a lot of things to bug the othe guy hoping to throw him off stride. that's the only possible explanation I can think of.
Archie Moore wrote the following in his book Any Boy Can.
“I saw Marciano sitting in his corner across from me, and I saw his trainer reach down into the bucket and rub his hands inside the bucket, and I knew what was happening. He was taking Vaseline from the bucket and rubbing it on Marciano `s neck and scalp and brows. This was so that blows would glance off, doing the least damage, and I pointed this out to my trainer and told him to go over and take the Vaseline off, but when he went over and complained to the referee. The referee ordered him to go back to my corner, so I said, “That’s all right. I’ll knock it off him.”
I know Vaseline is an important part of boxers kits today, but how Archie wrote the above I got the impression it may not have been back then?
“I saw Marciano sitting in his corner across from me, and I saw his trainer reach down into the bucket and rub his hands inside the bucket, and I knew what was happening. He was taking Vaseline from the bucket and rubbing it on Marciano `s neck and scalp and brows. This was so that blows would glance off, doing the least damage, and I pointed this out to my trainer and told him to go over and take the Vaseline off, but when he went over and complained to the referee. The referee ordered him to go back to my corner, so I said, “That’s all right. I’ll knock it off him.”
I know Vaseline is an important part of boxers kits today, but how Archie wrote the above I got the impression it may not have been back then?
petroleum jelly (vaseline is a trade name for other products too) was around way way back then....and, again, refs have often wiped off excessive amounts. Apparently the ref didn't agree with archie that this was excessive. archie was a great fighter and a fascinating and intelligent person....but he always had a touch of the con man in him...i don't mean financially...i mean in his description of some of his fights..especially his losses, and i think this is one of them. for example, in another auto bio, he refers to his loss (he keeps it singular) to ezzard charles as ..paraphrased...."sometimes a good fighter will inexplicably lose to an obscure one...as I did to ezzard charles, for example.)
when archie was called on some of his comments a lot of time he'd wink and say he was happy that so many remembered what he had written or said, as often he "has produced so many words I can't remember them all, and you help me keep track of some of them."
i think the major thing ali learned in his brief stay with archie's training camp was how to mess with your mind.
when archie was called on some of his comments a lot of time he'd wink and say he was happy that so many remembered what he had written or said, as often he "has produced so many words I can't remember them all, and you help me keep track of some of them."
i think the major thing ali learned in his brief stay with archie's training camp was how to mess with your mind.
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perrycarter
- Heavyweight
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Marciano Frazier
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 Jul 2003, 13:13
Yes, that's true. Moore was generally a nice guy, but he always liked to spin tall tales and various stories in his favor. I remember hearing about an instance in which Moore was telling some people how he had slept in his car while on his stay in a town for one of his fights with Maxim, but unfortunately for him, a reporter who had been there at the time already knew that he had been staying in a hotel room at the time and it was on record. There's also that story he told about how the ref had saved Marciano after the knockdown by giving him a standing eight count when he shouldn't have gotten one. Of course this is obviously not true if you just watch the fight, and the break after the knockdown was no longer than an ordinary one, but like you said, Archie always did seem to enjoy twisting every story to his advantage.Jaclem wrote:petroleum jelly (vaseline is a trade name for other products too) was around way way back then....and, again, refs have often wiped off excessive amounts. Apparently the ref didn't agree with archie that this was excessive. archie was a great fighter and a fascinating and intelligent person....but he always had a touch of the con man in him...i don't mean financially...i mean in his description of some of his fights..especially his losses, and i think this is one of them. for example, in another auto bio, he refers to his loss (he keeps it singular) to ezzard charles as ..paraphrased...."sometimes a good fighter will inexplicably lose to an obscure one...as I did to ezzard charles, for example.)
when archie was called on some of his comments a lot of time he'd wink and say he was happy that so many remembered what he had written or said, as often he "has produced so many words I can't remember them all, and you help me keep track of some of them."
i think the major thing ali learned in his brief stay with archie's training camp was how to mess with your mind.
...right...and then of course there's that "secret diet" he "learned from the aboriginies" while he was in australia that explained how he was able to take off so much weight when he had to get down to 175 for his light heavy title fights. of course it was just his ultra strong will power that was the real reason....some say it was because he'd chew meat but just swallow the juice and spit the meat out. try that one when you're hungry. a most colorful guy , a great fighter and marvelous spinner of tales.