Ezzard Charles

[hoodsyeahright]

I've always picked Archie Moore as the best LH champ ever (with Michael Spinks and Bob Foster) following close behind.

I've never properly appreciated the fact (until recently) that Ezzard Charles fought at light-heavy and beat Moore.

He never fought for the light-heavy title, but is Ezzard Charles the best LH ever?

[Robinson]

Many would consider him to be, his record speaks for itself. Ignore his fights after
his first Marciano loss, as he got to be some what ring worn and perhaps his
illness was showing effect.

He beat and fought some of the LHW divs best men, as well as facing and
beating a top crop of HW's including a somewhat handy Joe Louis.

[HomicideHenry]

I have it as being this:


Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster

[Robinson]

And from that list we would make some great and exciting matches at
LHW and HW.

[hoodsyeahright]

I have it as being this:


Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster

I'm showing my ignorance here but I had no idea Gene Tunney fought at light-heavy, and I agree with your list. My new updated greatest lists in the 5 weights:

Muhammad Ali
Ezzard Charles
Carlos Monzon
Sugar Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran

[hoodsyeahright]

Many would consider him to be, his record speaks for itself. Ignore his fights after
his first Marciano loss, as he got to be some what ring worn and perhaps his
illness was showing effect.

He beat and fought some of the LHW divs best men, as well as facing and
beating a top crop of HW's including a somewhat handy Joe Louis.

Hi Robinson

Ezzard wasn't a bad HW champion, and probably gave Marciano his 2 toughest fights. Maybe if Rocky hadn't got Ezz when he did in the second fight, it would have been stopped shortly after. That cut was horrendous.

[HomicideHenry]

Yes Tunney fought as a light heavyweight for many years before he moved up to heavyweight and beat such men as Johnny Risko before taking on the likes of Jack Dempsey for the heavyweight title. He could have fought the likes of Battling Siki, Mike McTigue, Paul Berlenbach and others for the 175 pound crown, but he didn't, though I believe it is very likely he would have won decisions over any of those I just listed. He could have been an ATG light heavyweight champion, but sadly, due to his decision to go to heavyweight, I have him down as being one of the greatest p4p fighters that ever lived; mind you I dont hold the heavyweight Tunney as being an ATG heavyweight, though such historians as Bert Sugar and Nat Fliescher did.

[hoodsyeahright]

I will research Tunney as a LH. I'm not much of a boxing historian am I?!!

I've never had Tunney on my own personal ATG HW list, but as a LH he is obviously up there. Would have been interesting to see him against a pre Carpentier Battling Siki.

For years I wanted to see Siki-Carpentier as I had read so much about it as a kid. Recently found it on Youtube although I think it's been removed now. Siki's strange behaviour certainly adds weight to the claim made in a book I have that Siki was supposed to take a dive against an untrained champion, but changed his mind and went on to win.

[Robinson]

Many would consider him to be, his record speaks for itself. Ignore his fights after
his first Marciano loss, as he got to be some what ring worn and perhaps his
illness was showing effect.

He beat and fought some of the LHW divs best men, as well as facing and
beating a top crop of HW's including a somewhat handy Joe Louis.

Hi Robinson

Ezzard wasn't a bad HW champion, and probably gave Marciano his 2 toughest fights. Maybe if Rocky hadn't got Ezz when he did in the second fight, it would have been stopped shortly after. That cut was horrendous.

Agreed and it is hard to imagine many ref's or ringside doctors allowing a fight to
continue with such a hideous cut-tear. It is safe to say that under some circumstances
that would have been a TKO win for Charles. Impressive fortitude on Marciano's behalf
though.

[Ambling Alp]

I have it as being this:


Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster

There are probably more guys that you could reasonably pick as the best lightheavyweight than at any other major weight division.
Those 5 do seem to stand out from the other lightheavyweights, and are very even with each other. You could really rank them from #1 to #5 in any combination.
(I suppose you could add Langford to this, but we really don't know how and which fights he had were within this weight class.)

It's a shame that Charles and Tunney never got a shot at the lightheavyweight title, but at least they did get a chance to win the heavyweight title.

[raylawpc]

Many would consider him to be, his record speaks for itself. Ignore his fights after
his first Marciano loss, as he got to be some what ring worn and perhaps his
illness was showing effect.

He beat and fought some of the LHW divs best men, as well as facing and
beating a top crop of HW's including a somewhat handy Joe Louis.

Hi Robinson

Ezzard wasn't a bad HW champion, and probably gave Marciano his 2 toughest fights. Maybe if Rocky hadn't got Ezz when he did in the second fight, it would have been stopped shortly after. That cut was horrendous.

Agreed and it is hard to imagine many ref's or ringside doctors allowing a fight to
continue with such a hideous cut-tear. It is safe to say that under some circumstances
that would have been a TKO win for Charles. Impressive fortitude on Marciano's behalf
though.

Why? If it wasn't obstructing his breathing or preventing him from defending himself, why stop the fight? The ringside physician was quoted after the fight saying that he had no intention of stopping it since it did not appear Marciano was affected by it in anyway. I think all that blood caused a bigger problem for Rocky in that (a) it might motivate Charles to start fighting a little (I think Marciano had won all the rounds on all scorecards to that point), or (b) all that blood might have effected the judge's scoring.

[BoxBuzz]

Ray...these days they seem to stop fights for hangnails. I'm waiting for the day that they stop a fight because someone was accused of "hitting" their opponent.

It's going to happen....mark my words.

[raylawpc]

But they didn't in the 1950s. That's when the fight took place. According to the ringside doc, Marciano was never in danger of losing the fight on a stoppage due to the nose injury.

[My2Sense]

He never fought for the light-heavy title, but is Ezzard Charles the best LH ever?

Not only was he the best LHW ever, but IMO a case could even be made that he was the best fighter ever, period.

[HomicideHenry]

Amen, he was that god damned good.

[Minotauro]

Charles was one of the greatest he has one of best resume in boxing, I would have him at no1 at light heavy and no5 p4p.