Though I’d comment having just seen the fight on Sky. It was quite like the Lewis-Klit fight in that it was awful on finesse and skill but very compelling, a pub brawl even. I guess the common denominator in the fights is Vitali so there must be something about the way he makes you fight, he is just so big and strong that skill goes out of the window and it gets a bit wild. But (especially) in those first few rounds he looked soooo vunerable, there for the taking in my opinion.
I honestly feel watching that fight that if Audley Harrison can negotiate the next 18-24 months of his career he would be in a position to have a chance against those guys. A big Heavyweight who can stand and put together some sleek sharp combinations against fighters so low on technique would surely have a chance? And I think Audley has more mental strength in that he wouldn’t get bulldozered like Danny Williams did against Samil Sam for example, he wouldn’t just stand there and allow himself to be blitzed away.
The way Sanders was popping Vitali with the left hand, I don’t see why Harrison couldn’t repeat that and maybe with even more success.
Perhaps at Heavyweight more than any other weight the name of the game is safely manoeuvring yourself into world class level without coming a cropper, it’s about just getting there. Once you’re there then we’ll see what you’re truly made of. I’m not saying for a minute that Harrison is a cert to win the world title, just that in 18 or so months time I think he is in the same ballpark.
Can’t leave without giving my respect to Corey Sanders as well who was very very brave, took some massive shots and kept on coming, even in that final round had Vitali wobbling a little.
Klit/Corey and where Audley fits in....
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13274
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
I thought Vitali's chin looked fine Goz, those left hand bombs of Sanders would have an effect on any heavyweight I think.
He might be still around when Audley hits the top 5, but I doubt Harrison hits hard enough to stop him. There's still questions about Audley's chin too - I didn't see the Ellis (?) fight, but apparently he was rocked a bit?
He might be still around when Audley hits the top 5, but I doubt Harrison hits hard enough to stop him. There's still questions about Audley's chin too - I didn't see the Ellis (?) fight, but apparently he was rocked a bit?
Good reflection, Goz. Klitschko is someone the fans of the future will look at on tape and think: "What was the fuss about?" He makes Frank Bruno look smooth. But he got the job done over a potential bogeyman and needs to fight Byrd again to clean up his record. My overriding view on the fight concerns the referee's performance: superb, which kind of sums up the protagonists. Sanders was game and had a go, but let us down in training.
As for Audley. Well, the sky's the limit. The division is awful.
As for Audley. Well, the sky's the limit. The division is awful.
Funnily enough the Ellis fight was the only Harrison fight I haven't seen (I think).
I didn't say Vitali looked chinny, nor that Audley would beat him, just that surely he can't be dismissed. Audley may not be able knock him out with one shot but he might with 5 of them and as I said Vitali looked real vunerable. I mean, whilst very brave, Sanders was dreadul, square on, just walking forward with his hands down and was still able to give Vitali a torrid time, a good boxer banging a hard sotuhpaw jab into Vitali's face and letting go with smooth fast combos might have even more success.
I didn't say Vitali looked chinny, nor that Audley would beat him, just that surely he can't be dismissed. Audley may not be able knock him out with one shot but he might with 5 of them and as I said Vitali looked real vunerable. I mean, whilst very brave, Sanders was dreadul, square on, just walking forward with his hands down and was still able to give Vitali a torrid time, a good boxer banging a hard sotuhpaw jab into Vitali's face and letting go with smooth fast combos might have even more success.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45229
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
The Lewis Klitchsko fight just showed how rusty and old Lewis was, his timing was non existent, and he hardly landed the jab at all until about the 4th round. It was the worst performance of his career for me, aside from his very early bouts.
Withou the Jab, Lewis becomes an ordinary heavyweight, albeit one with huge punchpower and great physical strength, Vitali was flattered because Lewis was reduced to wading forward into the line of fire to drop bombs on Vitali.
When Lewis did finally get untracked and start popping the jab, Vitali was like a rabbit in the headlights, but by then Lewis was winded and couldn't maintain the output.
Even 2 years earlier Lewis would have toyed with Vitali and broken him apart, but the Lewis that faced Vitali was spent and old.
This is precisely why he musn't come back, the timing just won't return like it used to, and you cannot afford to give away the first 4 rounds to a big strong bastard like Vitali at the age of almost 39, suicidal.
However, Vitali showed that when under pressure he is the big robot we always used to describe him as, it's just the underlying nature, and that is something no amount of technical training can completely eradicate.
If Audley is around and improved in 2 years time, I give him a shot at beating Vitali, Vitali looks good when he is in against someone who doesn't give him trouble, or is physically overmatched , but a smart fighter who can keep him guessing like Audley could have the tools. It all depends though on how good Audley's chin is, and how much better he can become before age starts to dull his reflexes.
Withou the Jab, Lewis becomes an ordinary heavyweight, albeit one with huge punchpower and great physical strength, Vitali was flattered because Lewis was reduced to wading forward into the line of fire to drop bombs on Vitali.
When Lewis did finally get untracked and start popping the jab, Vitali was like a rabbit in the headlights, but by then Lewis was winded and couldn't maintain the output.
Even 2 years earlier Lewis would have toyed with Vitali and broken him apart, but the Lewis that faced Vitali was spent and old.
This is precisely why he musn't come back, the timing just won't return like it used to, and you cannot afford to give away the first 4 rounds to a big strong bastard like Vitali at the age of almost 39, suicidal.
However, Vitali showed that when under pressure he is the big robot we always used to describe him as, it's just the underlying nature, and that is something no amount of technical training can completely eradicate.
If Audley is around and improved in 2 years time, I give him a shot at beating Vitali, Vitali looks good when he is in against someone who doesn't give him trouble, or is physically overmatched , but a smart fighter who can keep him guessing like Audley could have the tools. It all depends though on how good Audley's chin is, and how much better he can become before age starts to dull his reflexes.
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13274
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
Yes Audley could defintely pick up a world title, I've always said that, just because the division has never looked so dire.
The big four titles will all be split and there's going to be big chances coming his way. Keep him clear of the big punching danger men if possible. Barrett would be a great test for him in 12 months or so.
I really hope he does it, just to see the pissed off expression of Warren's face when he does!
The big four titles will all be split and there's going to be big chances coming his way. Keep him clear of the big punching danger men if possible. Barrett would be a great test for him in 12 months or so.
I really hope he does it, just to see the pissed off expression of Warren's face when he does!
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Eric the Viking
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1354
- Joined: 03 Apr 2003, 21:40
My main concern is that in the fights I've seen him in, Audley has responded even more poorly to aggression on the part of his opponents than Vitali does. Vitali may become robotic when pressured, but Audley completely freezes up - it's only that he hasn't been in with any guys that have had the skill/balls to try to take the fight to him AND had any kind of big punch. In a contest of robot vs. no-bot, I take the robot. ;)
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2658
- Joined: 28 Feb 2004, 18:03
This is a concern i've had about Harrison for a while now. I don't see it as being a terminal problem though. Because of the lack of depth in the division he'll have plenty of time to iron out this and other defensive weaknesses before he fights someone who may be able to capitalise on them.Eric the Viking wrote:Vitali may become robotic when pressured, but Audley completely freezes up
I'd give him a reasonable chance with Vitali now. For me both fighters are good offensively, but have slightly suspect defenses. I really don't like Vitali's defense at all, it's a good job he's nowhere near as chinny as his brother. I could see Audley being able to hit Vitali very easily, and he'll almost certainly throw more punches than Sanders did. I really don't see any other heavys at the moment who are as accurate and fast as Audley. As James says it will all come down to Audleys chin. If it's good i can see him not only living with the top guys, but beating the top guys. If his chin isn't good he's going to find it tough to even make his way to the big fights.
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Bard of Boxrec
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13114
- Joined: 22 Feb 2002, 20:00
totally agree. all through the broadcast tonight i was telling my housemates that Audley will have a real chance when he gets to klitschko. talent and skills wise, he's streets ahead. he's also got the persona of a winner, which bodes well for how his fighting spirit will stand up when he gets hit back.
when audley gets to vitali, his defence will have improved. he's already difficult to tag with muliple shots- and vitali won't have the skills to repeatedly catch an awkward southpaw who always looks to counter and rarely trades. i see audley causing vitali hell with those lightning combinations.
i actually think audley will hold up in the chin department. i don't see him being able to take repeated bombs like sanders did, but he won't get hit by so many shots anyway.
when audley gets to vitali, his defence will have improved. he's already difficult to tag with muliple shots- and vitali won't have the skills to repeatedly catch an awkward southpaw who always looks to counter and rarely trades. i see audley causing vitali hell with those lightning combinations.
i actually think audley will hold up in the chin department. i don't see him being able to take repeated bombs like sanders did, but he won't get hit by so many shots anyway.
First sensible post you've made. 8)Eric the Viking wrote:My main concern is that in the fights I've seen him in, Audley has responded even more poorly to aggression on the part of his opponents than Vitali does. Vitali may become robotic when pressured, but Audley completely freezes up - it's only that he hasn't been in with any guys that have had the skill/balls to try to take the fight to him AND had any kind of big punch. In a contest of robot vs. no-bot, I take the robot. ;)
Audley is saying and doing the right things at the moment but when he steps up in class I expect things to change suddenly. World class fighters are not going to fear Harrison one bit, he's just not a puncher nor is he that difficult to back up for such a big man.
If Audley had a genuine chip on his shoulder, a nasty side to him, I'd give him more of a chance of long term success. But you just don't suddenly develop a mean streak when you're a 32yr old millionaire.
I know many would disagree but I'd pick Skelton over him big time. Too strong, works too hard.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45229
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
I'd bung Williams with Brewster now. I think the reason he "lost" to Sprott the last time was because he is bored with the domestic heavies.
Check out Brewster's record, he's not much kop even in this climate - neither is Danny I know, but this is his best opportunity. Kandelaki is not a bad step for Williams at least on paper he is undefeated with an excellent amateur pedigree - Williams should win comfortably though.
Check out Brewster's record, he's not much kop even in this climate - neither is Danny I know, but this is his best opportunity. Kandelaki is not a bad step for Williams at least on paper he is undefeated with an excellent amateur pedigree - Williams should win comfortably though.
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Guest
- Heavyweight
cobblers he has power technique and heart, anyone who saw the potter fight woudlnt have a bad word to say bout Danny, remarkable courage.The Original Hurricane wrote:Williams must be one of the most overrated heavies. The reason he lost was because he was no bloody good.
he just seems mentally to switch off and get lazy. but when you have dislocated your shoulder 3 or four times in one night thats gonna stick in the subconscious.,
Surely you mean Sam fight. Potter was his best win - how could that display of guts and a conclusive finish damage him mentally.J wrote:Depends which danny turns up doest it, really starting to feel that fight against potter damaged him mentally, shame I like DW. Tho hope he comes back bigger better and winning 8)
There is only one way this could have damaged him in that he started to believe his own hype.
no Stu i do mean the potter fight did you see it?
did you his shoulder popped back in at the end of the round 3-4 times?
Did you see one shoulder and arm dangling uselessy has he battled on with only his left.
When he emerged victorious did you see hinm sprawl on the canvass in tears as they popped back in again later sat on his stool again in tears of pain, later being quoted as saying once the adreneline stopped it was the worst pain Ive ever experienced.
That type of thing has a psychological effect mate.
Ive been injured enough times sport in the past to know it can go through your mind at the most in-opportune of moments in the end that why I gave up rugby / karate.
And that was pretty horrific for anyone to go through that by anyones standards.
it does leave a mental scar mate trust me .
did you his shoulder popped back in at the end of the round 3-4 times?
Did you see one shoulder and arm dangling uselessy has he battled on with only his left.
When he emerged victorious did you see hinm sprawl on the canvass in tears as they popped back in again later sat on his stool again in tears of pain, later being quoted as saying once the adreneline stopped it was the worst pain Ive ever experienced.
That type of thing has a psychological effect mate.
Ive been injured enough times sport in the past to know it can go through your mind at the most in-opportune of moments in the end that why I gave up rugby / karate.
And that was pretty horrific for anyone to go through that by anyones standards.
it does leave a mental scar mate trust me .
Good point, however I don't think Danny has been re-injured (which is the biggest sourse of fear amongst seriously injured athletes). Yes, Danny might have fears about his arm not being the same, but surely that was erradicated with his stoppage wins over Francis, Sprott, Mivoriic, Robinson, Meehan etc.J wrote:no Stu i do mean the potter fight did you see it?
did you his shoulder popped back in at the end of the round 3-4 times?
Did you see one shoulder and arm dangling uselessy has he battled on with only his left.
When he emerged victorious did you see hinm sprawl on the canvass in tears as they popped back in again later sat on his stool again in tears of pain, later being quoted as saying once the adreneline stopped it was the worst pain Ive ever experienced.
That type of thing has a psychological effect mate.
Ive been injured enough times sport in the past to know it can go through your mind at the most in-opportune of moments in the end that why I gave up rugby / karate.
And that was pretty horrific for anyone to go through that by anyones standards.
it does leave a mental scar mate trust me .
You have a point, but it was after the Potter performance where Danny has put in some of his best wins (Francis, Meehan, Long - which I still think was good, etc). It seemed after the Sam fight where it went down hill.
I am hopefull that the ref raising Sprott's arm in their last meeting has given him the kick up the backside he needed. Certainly looks promising on his last performance.
Hey, Sanders and Williams are apples and pears. Sanders still has more of a world class future than Danny Williams ever had!stujones wrote:So how come the thread title has Corey in it?Goz wrote:Hey come on guys, this thread was meant to be about Heavyweights with a future!
One fighter who in 2003 didn't have a future is Lamon Brewester, the guy has lost to Etteine.
Anything can happen in this devision.
Anything can happen, within reason, Danny Williams won't be shaking any big trees for the rest of his time as a boxer, you can bet on that.