Boxing Prime and Physical Prime

[observer1]

I made a post in the Tyson-Frazier Thread, but i feel i should make a Topic, since many people here seem to have difficulty in differentiating between the two.

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Some people do not understand the term Boxing Prime.

A guys Boxing Prime can be when he is 20-25, it can be when he is 10-13, it can eveb be when he is 49-50. That is Boxing Prime, and a completley different thing to Physical Prime.

Reason why they say Tyson was as a good as shot around the Douglas fight and afterwards was due to his chaotic life, tragic deaths, and losing his hunger for the sport. His Boxing Prime was gone at this point.

You can argue Tyson was in his physical Peak Post-Prison, since he was around 28-30. However, as fantastic as he was ast this period, it was clear he was not even half the elusive fighter he was back when he bcame undisuputed champion the 1st Round in 88.
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Discuss

[Ambling Alp]

I agree that one fighter prime could be at one age and another guy's at another age. Sometimes it's just do to one guy starting his career late and so he doesn't reach his prime until he later.

Of course a lot of hard tough fights can end a fighters prime earlier than average.

Usually fighters in heavier weight classes can still be effective at an older age than fighters at a younger age. As a rule of thumb, most heavyweights start to decline at the age of about 30, and are much worse by the time they are about 35. Of course there are notable exceptions like Jersey Joe Walcott.

Sometimes the past his prime line really is just an excuse. Sometimes he isn't winning anymore simply becasue he now fighting someone better.

If a fighter isn't old, hasn't had many tough fights and starts losing and/or having past performances, it isn't because he is suddenly past his prime. It's probably because he fighting better fighters,fighters who have figured out ways to beat him, or he isn't prepared.
If he isn't prepared, it's his own fault. Everyone has problems in their personal lives; we just usually know exactly what they are. Great fighters deal with it.

[dempseyfire]

I completly disagree Tyson was anywhere near 'shot' for Douglas. He was still in his prime. A little overconfident? Sure, but still very much in his prime.

For most cases, a fighter's boxing prime and physicial prime will over-lap. This is from around 23-28 years old. It will be the exception of the fighter who reaches his 'prime' after 30, whether due to ending bad lifestyle habits, finally gaining focus etc.

When people say Lewis and Hopkins were in their prime at 35 (for Tito and the Rahman II/Tyson fights) they are wrong. They were past their prime, they simply had their defining fights in that period, which they dominated.

Ditto for Joe Walcott. He's said to have a 'late prime' simply b/c that's when he got good management and finally got a crack at the big time (Louis, followed by Charles). If Walcott had proper management which took care of him (he was dirt poor and taking fights regardless of his physical condition at the time to pay bills) from the beginning, he would've burst onto the world class scene much earlier.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's excuse-mongering to retrospectively argue (as no one was doing it at the time, it needs to be noted) that Tyson was, "past his prime," when he met Douglas. Out-of-form or poorly-prepared (both of which Tyson may've been) do not remove you from your prime.

Excuse-making, for a shocking, unforgivable defeat.

[observer1]

It's excuse-mongering to retrospectively argue (as no one was doing it at the time, it needs to be noted) that Tyson was, "past his prime," when he met Douglas. Out-of-form or poorly-prepared (both of which Tyson may've been) do not remove you from your prime.

Excuse-making, for a shocking, unforgivable defeat.

Hmm Quite intresting.

I never actually looked at Boxers having "Form". I always assumed as a Boxer's Skills deteriorated, it was then a Boxer became out of form.

Boxers may have an off-night, but Form wise, hmmm... intresting.

i personally believe, regarding Boxing Prime, when referring to Tyson. His "Peak" was 86-88. Onwards here he had the skillset, but not the mindset.

I feel had Tyson developed like any other boxer, that is not have a chaotic lifestyle, and not have deaths and tragedies befall around every corner, Tyson's Prime could have extended to arouund 94-97 easily.

However, after Rooney, Tyson became a very limited fighter. Tyson may well have been in his Prime against Douglas, but he was no where near his fighting best.