Fantasy night of Heavyweight bxoing.

[Crease]

Okay guys, here's my attempt to bring together a bill of fantasy Heavyweight match-ups that I think that everyone would enjoy.

I wanted to involves all the greats from down the ages and put them into the ring together, see how well they faired against each other.

*I have two conditions while doing doing this:
01. I have consciously matched boxers that I think would give close fights... In other words, there's gonna be no 15 round walkovers.... AND
02. Boxers who ave already fought CANNOT fight again... For example Ali can NEVER fight Frazier.

And here's the matches:

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Gene Tunney VS James Toney

And finally

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun)

[Crease]

Here's my predictions for the fights:

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Marciano wins by KO round 14.

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Louis wins by points decision

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
Walcott wins by points decision, but is knocked down in the 6th and 9th.

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Foreman wins by KO round 3.

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Holmes wins by KO round 7.

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
Baer wins by stoppage in round 8.

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
Frazier wins by KO round 9.

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Schmeling wins by points decision

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
Dempesy wins by KO round 11.

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Vitali wins by points decision.

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
Norton wins by points decision

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Johnson wins by KO round 10.

Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Firpo wins on points decision

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Liston wins by KO round 5.

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
Tunney wins by stoppage round 8.

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun)
Shavers wins by KO round 2.

[theone]

[quote="Crease"]Here's my predictions for the fights:

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Marciano gets cut up, dominated, and eventually stopped in 8.

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Although i think he is the overall better fighter, I don't think Louis matches up well style wise with Holyfield. Evander's physical strenght, counter punching ability and comparatively better movement would trouble Louis throughout. Holyfields superior chin would see him through more tough spots and Louis's would. Holyfield by late stoppage, somewhere around the 11th or 12th.

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
I could see Walcott duplicating Quarry's success against the bigger man, except that I don't believe Walcott had Quarry level toughness to get the job done throughout the entire fight. Lyle by tko in 9.

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Foreman by ko in 2.

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Holmes verrrrry carefully boxes his way to a clear cut, but difficult decision.

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
All Baer had was a punch. Bonavena had the chin to take it for a few rounds. Thats all he would need. Bonavena by tko 5.

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
Probably the hardest fantasy match for me to pick. All i can guess is Tyson early or Frazier late.

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Schmeling wins this handidly I suppose.

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
Although Dempsey's skills are vastly overrated in my opinion, his power and speed cant be denied. I imagine he'll catch Patterson somewhere before the 5th round and ko him.

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Vitali by destruction whenever he feels like ending it.

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
Klitchsko has the power to put Norton out early, but he isn't aggressive enough to make it happen. Norton wins a close and tough decision.

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Bowe way too big, too strong for Johnson. Bowe fantastic infighting for a guy his size is the icing on the cake. Bowe mid rounds ko.

Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Firpo greatest asset was his size; and that wont matter in this fight. Bruno tko 3.

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Roy runs runs runs the entire fight to survive, but ultimately lose by lopsided decision.

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
Tunney by decision. No way is he knocking Toney out.

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun)
Shavers by staredown.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well put together, Crease.

My take, briefly...

Ali TKO12 Marciano --- Scorecards through eleven: 7-3-1, 6-5, 6-5 Ali

Louis TKO9 Holyfield --- Scorecards through eight: 6-2, 5-2-1, 5-3 Louis

Walcott UD12 Lyle --- Scorecards through twelve: 7-5, 8-4, 8-4 Walcott

Foreman TKO4 Carnera --- Scorecards through three: 3-0, 3-0, 3-0 Foreman

Holmes UD12 Lewis --- Scorecards through twelve: 7-5, 6-5-1, 7-5 Holmes

Baer TKO7 Bonavena --- Scorecards through six: 4-2, 4-2, 3-3 Baer

Tyson TKO3 Frazier --- Scorecards through two: 2-0, 2-0, 2-0 Tyson

Schmeling UD12 LaStarza --- Scorecards through twelve: 7-5, 8-4, 8-3-1 Schmeling

Dempsey KO2 Patterson --- Scorecards through one: 1-0, 1-0, 1-0 Dempsey

Klitschko TKO4 Spinks --- Scorecards through three: 3-0, 2-1, 3-0 Klitschko

Norton MD12 Klitschko --- Scorecards through twelve: 6-5-1, 6-6, 7-5 Norton

Bowe TKO5 Johnson --- Scorecards through four: 3-1, 4-0, 3-1 Bowe

Firpo TKO11 Bruno --- Scorecards through ten: 5-5, 5-4-1, 6-4 Bruno

Liston TKO3 Jones Jr. --- Scorecards through two: 1-1, 1-1, 2-0 Liston

Tunney UD12 Toney --- Scorecards through twelve: 8-4, 8-3-1, 7-5 Tunney

Shavers KO2 Harrison --- Scorecards through one: 1-0, 1-0, 1-0 Shavers

[dempseyfire]

Here's my predictions for the fights:

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Marciano wins by KO round 14.

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Louis wins by points decision

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
Walcott wins by points decision, but is knocked down in the 6th and 9th.

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Foreman wins by KO round 3.

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Holmes wins by KO round 7.

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
Baer wins by stoppage in round 8.

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
Frazier wins by KO round 9.

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Schmeling wins by points decision

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
Dempesy wins by KO round 11.

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Vitali wins by points decision.

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
Norton wins by points decision

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Johnson wins by KO round 10.

Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Firpo wins on points decision

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Liston wins by KO round 5.

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
Tunney wins by stoppage round 8.

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun)
Shavers wins by KO round 2.

I agree basically with your predictions, although I favor Ali by decision over Marciano and a peak Louis stops Evander inside the distance.

[andyc6665]

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Marciano wins by KO in the 13th

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Louis wins by decision

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
Walcott wins by decision

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Foreman wins by K0 in the 2nd

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Holmes wins by decision

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
Baer wins by decision

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
Tyson wins by TKO in the 5th

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Schmeling wins by decision

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
Dempsey wins by K0 in the 3rd

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Klitchsko wins by K0 in the 6th

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
fight is declared a draw

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Johnson wins by decision

Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Bruno wins by decision

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Liston wins by K0 in the 5th

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
Tunney wins by decision

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison
Shavers wins by K0 in the 7th

[observer1]

i cannot imagine Marciano winning Ali... Ever..

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali - Ali Wins TKO 10th Round
Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield - Joe Louis TKO 13th Round
Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle - Walcott in Close UD
George Foreman VS Primo Carnera - Foreman - TKO Middle Rounds
Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis - Holmes UD
Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer - Oscar UD
Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson - Tyson TKO middle Rounds
Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling - Max TKO Latter Rounds
Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson - Hmm... Dempsey wins 2/3 UD
Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko - Leon Spinks TKO Latter Rounds
Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko - Norton TKO Latter rounds
Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe - Jack Johnson UD
Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno - Bruno TKO Middle Rounds
Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR. - Liston TKO Middle-Latter Rounds
Gene Tunney VS James Toney - Tunney by Close UD

And finally

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun) - Earnie Shavers early KO

[p4p1]

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
ali wins in 13 rounds after dominating marciano and cutting him up

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
louis lands some big hits on holyfield through the fight but is taken the distance in a tough fight and get the nod

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
walcott by decision

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
big george is too powerful and to good if baer can drop him 7 times foreman can beat him worse

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
ill pick holmes by a close UD

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
tough hard fight but i think baer could get the decision after landing some bombs through out the fight

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
agree with the one on this one very tough one either tyson wins early or he fails to land flush enough and frazier breaks him down and ends it late

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
schmelling takes an clear win either ko or distance im not sure

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
demolition like the liston fights

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
vitali when ever he wants to

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
norton battles to a hard fought decision

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
jack johnson uses his exellent skill to out manuvor and out think riddick bowe in a decision

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
i can see this going two ways 1 liston's awesome power can get to jones eventually behind the jab and catch jones flush wich he doesnt handle to well or
2 jones uses his blinding handspeed and exellent movement to frustrate liston and eventually wins on points or a late tko if liston gives up

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
tunney by an easy decisioin Toney is a great fighter but not at HW

And finally

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun)
harrison shits himself at the staredown shavers falls over laughing and is unable to continue harrson by tko

[Goodnight, Irene]

i cannot imagine Marciano winning Ali... Ever..

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali - Ali Wins TKO 10th Round
Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield - Joe Louis TKO 13th Round
Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle - Walcott in Close UD
George Foreman VS Primo Carnera - Foreman - TKO Middle Rounds
Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis - Holmes UD
Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer - Oscar UD
Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson - Tyson TKO middle Rounds
Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling - Max TKO Latter Rounds
Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson - Hmm... Dempsey wins 2/3 UD
Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko - Leon Spinks TKO Latter Rounds
Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko - Norton TKO Latter rounds
Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe - Jack Johnson UD
Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno - Bruno TKO Middle Rounds
Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR. - Liston TKO Middle-Latter Rounds
Gene Tunney VS James Toney - Tunney by Close UD

And finally

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun) - Earnie Shavers early KO

Just curious...I can't ever see Patterson beating Dempsey. Care to elaborate?

[jezzamundo]

Muhammad Ali TKO13 Rocky Marciano
Joe Louis TKO8 Evander Holyfield
Jersey Joe Walcott UD15 Ron Lyle
George Foreman KO3 Primo Carnera
Larry Holmes UD12 Lennox Lewis
Max Baer TKO10 Oscar Bonavena
Mike Tyson TKO6 Joe Frazier
Max Schmeling UD15 Roland LaStarza
Jack Dempsey KO5 Floyd Patterson
Vitali Klitchsko TKO7 Leon Spinks
Wladimir Klitchsko TKO6 Ken Norton
Jack Johnson UD15 Riddick Bowe
Frank Bruno TKO9 Firpo
Sonny Liston KO2 Roy Jones JR.
Gene Tunney UD15 James Toney
Ernie Shavers KO8 Audley Harrison

[observer1]

i cannot imagine Marciano winning Ali... Ever..

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali - Ali Wins TKO 10th Round
Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield - Joe Louis TKO 13th Round
Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle - Walcott in Close UD
George Foreman VS Primo Carnera - Foreman - TKO Middle Rounds
Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis - Holmes UD
Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer - Oscar UD
Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson - Tyson TKO middle Rounds
Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling - Max TKO Latter Rounds
Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson - Hmm... Dempsey wins 2/3 UD
Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko - Leon Spinks TKO Latter Rounds
Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko - Norton TKO Latter rounds
Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe - Jack Johnson UD
Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno - Bruno TKO Middle Rounds
Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR. - Liston TKO Middle-Latter Rounds
Gene Tunney VS James Toney - Tunney by Close UD

And finally

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison (for fun) - Earnie Shavers early KO

Just curious...I can't ever see Patterson beating Dempsey. Care to elaborate?

When i say Depsey winning 2/3 UD.

I mean I see Depsey winning Patterson. But i felt on a good day, with Patterson's determination, i can see Patterson winning and outboxing Depsey.

Another reason being Demsey fought at around 180lbs, the same weight (if not under) as Floyd Patterson. Patterson held his own against the 210lbs+ HW's, and could easily control fights against guys his own weight.

[Goodnight, Irene]

By the same token, Dempsey KO'ed men twice Patterson's size, & how.

[Robinson]

patterson beats Dempsey. For all of patterson's 'protected' title reign
he atleast gave men of all colours a shot, the best man in town (liston)
after a wait a shot and never sat on the title without defending it
for 3 years.


If fireman Flynn ko's Dempsey so does patterson. Liston is a different
fighter than Dempsey was.

[Ambling Alp]

Ali W15 Marciano (12 rounds to 3)
Louis KO13 Holyfield
Walcott W15 Lyle (10 rounds to 5)
Foreman KO 2 Carnera
Holmes W15 Lewis (9 rounds to 6)
Baer TKO14 Bonavena
Frazier KO 8 Tyson
Schmeling W15 La Starza (10 rounds to 5)
Dempsey KO 2 Patterson
Vitali Ktlischko KO 6 Spinks
Norton KO5 Wladimir Klitschko
Johnson-Bowe Draw
Bruno KO 4 Firpo
Liston KO 1 Jones
Tunney W 15 Toney (13 rounds to 2)
Shavers KO 2 Harrison

[dempseyfire]

patterson beats Dempsey. For all of patterson's 'protected' title reign
he atleast gave men of all colours a shot, the best man in town (liston)
after a wait a shot and never sat on the title without defending it
for 3 years.


If fireman Flynn ko's Dempsey so does patterson. Liston is a different
fighter than Dempsey was.

In over 90 fights, Dempsey is KO'd once under suspicious circumstances, so loses to Patterson

Dempsey's sitting on the title and partying it up through the Roaring 20s says jack about his abilities as a fighter. If you want to critique his title reign that's another thread.

Dempsey style-wise is MURDER to FLoyd. It would make the first Johansson fight look like a dance recital. Patterson would come straight in with the D'Amato style and get floored with the first Dempset counter-hook.

[Crease]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, there was some interesting views and opinions expressed.

For example, some believe that Bonavena would have the better of Baer... Personally, I agree that Bonavena had an excellent chin, and could take considerable punishment, I just think that Baer was a little to skilled and ring-aware to defeat Oscar, wheter it be a point decision or indeed, a KO.

Personally, I don't think that Patterson (fan of him though I am) would defeat Dempesy, and certainly not by a KO... I could see Dempsey rushing forward, ready to punch hard, while Floyd plays a defensive jabbing game... But untilmately, I think that Old Jack bullies him into a KO, he's just a little too tough for Floyd... (And Floyd has been known to fear an opponent that he struggles to hurt).

And (for fun)
Audley the fraud, would be lucky to last half the fight against Ernie... I would just like to see this fight happen to see Audley run...and run... and run... and run...
THEN BAM!
Goddnight Shirley!!!

[observer1]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, there was some interesting views and opinions expressed.

For example, some believe that Bonavena would have the better of Baer... Personally, I agree that Bonavena had an excellent chin, and could take considerable punishment, I just think that Baer was a little to skilled and ring-aware to defeat Oscar, wheter it be a point decision or indeed, a KO.

Personally, I don't think that Patterson (fan of him though I am) would defeat Dempesy, and certainly not by a KO... I could see Dempsey rushing forward, ready to punch hard, while Floyd plays a defensive jabbing game... But untilmately, I think that Old Jack bullies him into a KO, he's just a little too tough for Floyd... (And Floyd has been known to fear an opponent that he struggles to hurt).

And (for fun)
Audley the fraud, would be lucky to last half the fight against Ernie... I would just like to see this fight happen to see Audley run...and run... and run... and run...
THEN BAM!
Goddnight Shirley!!!

Nobody said floyd would KO Dempsey, but i did say on a good day, Floyd would win by a UD

[Crease]

My aplogies Observer1, you were right, I was wrong...

[ben geoghegan]

And here's the matches:

Rocky Marciano VS Muhammad Ali
Ali KO10

Joe Louis VS Evander Holyfield
Louis W15

Jersey Joe Walcott VS Ron Lyle
Walcott W15

George Foreman VS Primo Carnera
Foreman KO1

Larry Holmes VS Lennox Lewis
Lewis W15

Oscar Bonavena VS Max Baer
Baer W15

Joe Frazier VS Mike Tyson
D15

Roland LaStarza VS Max Schmeling
Schmeling W15

Jack Dempsey VS Floyd Patterson
D15

Leon Spinks VS Vitali Klitchsko
Spinks W15

Ken Norton VS Wladimir Klitchsko
Norton KO2

Jack Johnson VS Riddick Bowe
Bowe W15

Luis Angel Firpo VS Frank Bruno
Bruno KO8

Sonny Liston VS Roy Jones JR.
Jones W15

Gene Tunney VS James Toney
Toney W15

Ernie Shavers VS Audley Harrison
Shavers KO1

[Crease]

Norton KOS Wlad Klitchsko in round 2!!!!

WOW... Dude, you've got some serious confidence in Norton.

Why do you think Wlad won't last 3 rounds with him???

[observer1]

My aplogies Observer1, you were right, I was wrong...

hehehe

Don't worry about it..

[Goodnight, Irene]

Norton KOS Wlad Klitchsko in round 2!!!!

WOW... Dude, you've got some serious confidence in Norton.

Why do you think Wlad won't last 3 rounds with him???

That's the least of his bold predictions :)

[Robinson]

patterson beats Dempsey. For all of patterson's 'protected' title reign
he atleast gave men of all colours a shot, the best man in town (liston)
after a wait a shot and never sat on the title without defending it
for 3 years.


If fireman Flynn ko's Dempsey so does patterson. Liston is a different
fighter than Dempsey was.

In over 90 fights, Dempsey is KO'd once under suspicious circumstances, so loses to Patterson

Dempsey's sitting on the title and partying it up through the Roaring 20s says jack about his abilities as a fighter. If you want to critique his title reign that's another thread.

Dempsey style-wise is MURDER to FLoyd. It would make the first Johansson fight look like a dance recital. Patterson would come straight in with the D'Amato style and get floored with the first Dempset counter-hook.

Under suspicious circumstances....ok.

Anyhow...I personally do not feel that Dempsey does beat Patterson. Thats my
opinion. Floyd had a soft chin and was at times fragile in the ring, but he still
would get back up and often win.

I think a mauler type fighter like Dempsey falls into the style of fighter that Patterson
is...Chuvalo, Bonavena etc....it would make for a sensational and exciting fight.

I shall refrain from any more comments on Dempsey's glorious reign as a champion.

[Goodnight, Irene]

In fairness, the KO loss to Flynn is widely-held to be highly suspect. Patterson's reign was a highly-protected one, especially first-time around, so he doesn't necessarily hold the trump card against Dempsey there, either.

[Jaclem]

..spinks..patterson..lastarza....schmeling..walcott.. and no ezzard charles???