USA Boxing Rankings

[Jamel]

Does anybody know where you can find the latest rankings in USA boxing? They seemed to take the page off their website.

[Jamel]

Thanks for the link, does anybody know when they're going to change the rankings because these stats are kind of old now and the National P.A.L just ended.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Thanks for the link, does anybody know when they're going to change the rankings because these stats are kind of old now and the National P.A.L just ended.

USAB announced in a recent email that they are redoing the rankings and will also be include junior boxers somehow. Not sure what the criteria will be, but that's what they said.

[Jamel]

The new rankings probably won't come out until November or December.

Ok that sounds cool with me

[Dennis]

The rankings are not that important. They favor boxers who compete the most, not necessarily those who do well, but only compete in one ranking tournament.

[usaboxing574]

the ranking are important it decides who fights international....shouldnt it favor boxer who compete the most and do well.....

[Jamel]

the ranking are important it decides who fights international....shouldnt it favor boxer who compete the most and do well.....

I agree

[Dennis]

the ranking are important it decides who fights international....shouldnt it favor boxer who compete the most and do well.....

Last year some guys boxed in every qualifier before making it to the U.S. Championships. They would earn points in each tournament and jump ahead of boxers who defeated them in early tournaments. The boxers that won the earlier tournaments were not permitted to enter the remaining qualifiers (Midwestern Trials, National Golden Gloves, Eastern Trials and finally the Western Trials). So the boxer who competed in all of them would have more ranking points than the boxer who won the first or second tournament. Obviously the higher ranked boxer under those circumstances was not the better boxer.

[boxmel]

The rankings are not that important. They favor boxers who compete the most, not necessarily those who do well, but only compete in one ranking tournament.

As DCAB said, they do determine who is picked for international events. Used to be the rankings would start with the U.S. Championships in March. Other ranking tournaments were the Golden Gloves and the PAL. Any athletes participating in international events would get "X" number of points for a tournament placing or a dual meet result.

[Jamel]

Obviously the rankings are there for a reason so...

[boxmel]

Jamel - did you say you were at the PAL in California? Did you participate or just there to watch?

[Jamel]

Jamel - did you say you were at the PAL in California? Did you participate or just there to watch?

I fought under the United States Marine Team at 141 open I fought the guy who won, also a few of my teammates did well, Edgar Ramirez made it to the quarter finals at 132 Open, Andre Ramirez 125 open took Silver, and Bryant Tune won in the 201+ open which was his first open bouts and tournament with only 6 bouts so we did good I guess.

[boxmel]

Thanks. :) You were in Ring 1 - that's why I didn't remember seeing you - I was in Ring 2. Were you one of the Marines who came to Southern California this year and boxed at two of our local shows at the Westminster Boxing Gym?

[Jamel]

Thanks. :) You were in Ring 1 - that's why I didn't remember seeing you - I was in Ring 2. Were you one of the Marines who came to Southern California this year and boxed at two of our local shows at the Westminster Boxing Gym?

Yes I was in ring one that night but I wasnt part of the marines who boxed in Westminster Gym, that had to been the Marine Corps. team stationed out there in California, I'm on the All Marine Team who actually go to all the national tournaments and we're stationed in Camp Lejeune under coach Ron Simms who you can find on this site as HBomb2. I was one of the winners of the Invitational we had at the end of August.

[Dennis]

The rankings are not that important. They favor boxers who compete the most, not necessarily those who do well, but only compete in one ranking tournament.

As DCAB said, they do determine who is picked for international events. Used to be the rankings would start with the U.S. Championships in March. Other ranking tournaments were the Golden Gloves and the PAL. Any athletes participating in international events would get "X" number of points for a tournament placing or a dual meet result.

They were being hand picked for the international competitions so certain boxers would get ranked very high even though someone who had defeated them would be ranked behind them since they didn't get those extra ranking points for the international bouts.

[Jamel]

overall theres a good side and bad but hopefully it benefits the good more so often

[Jamel]

Jamel - did you say you were at the PAL in California? Did you participate or just there to watch?

I fought under the United States Marine Team at 141 open I fought the guy who won, also a few of my teammates did well, Edgar Ramirez made it to the quarter finals at 132 Open, Andre Ramirez 125 open took Silver, and Bryant Tune won in the 201+ open which was his first open bouts and tournament with only 6 bouts so we did good I guess.

How is Edgar doing?

Hes doing fine now but I believe 2 days ago he had to actually get surgery, I havent really seen him since we returned back from the PALs because hes been all over seeing doctors and resting but from the last time speaking to him hes been good about everything.

[Dennis]

If they really wanted to have the ranking be useful, they could give points for defeating a ranked boxer by another boxer. That way guys who were ranked might want to compete against a ranked boxer. Many ranked boxers find it difficult to get bouts other than at national tournaments.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

If they really wanted to have the ranking be useful, they could give points for defeating a ranked boxer by another boxer. That way guys who were ranked might want to compete against a ranked boxer. Many ranked boxers find it difficult to get bouts other than at national tournaments.

I agree, points should be awarded on the level of competition you face. It would give boxers a lot more incentive to compete at a higher level rather than protect their record.

I really, really, really like that idea Dennis. For those boxers that are unable to attend some of the national tournaments like the Natl. GG or the PAL, which are both a really big investment of time and money - they could still receive some credit for defeating ranked boxers. That's a really good solution and I hope someone is reading this that can suggest that.

[Dennis]

I can come up with good ideas once in awhile.

[Jamel]

I can come up with good ideas once in awhile.

That is a really good idea but I just know theres always going to be that ONE person who'll complain and say "it'll be just like professional boxing if you take that idea :" Yeah that may be the case but it still would make alot more sense when you put the term in RANKING, ranking shouldnt mean "well I made it to a tournament that nobody else showed up because it was to expensive to travel so now I get these points I dont deserve and I'm in the top 10" and thats the case for it most of the time, its to expensive or to far because the PALs was a very important tournament for ranking but no one that was up there in skill level really showed up because its to expensive to get out there and it would suck if you paid all that money then lost right before you made it to the quarter finals to even get ranked. I dont know if its true or not but I heard that you can get ranked just from losing to the guy who wins the whole tournament.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I can come up with good ideas once in awhile.

That is a really good idea but I just know theres always going to be that ONE person who'll complain and say "it'll be just like professional boxing if you take that idea :" Yeah that may be the case but it still would make alot more sense when you put the term in RANKING, ranking shouldnt mean "well I made it to a tournament that nobody else showed up because it was to expensive to travel so now I get these points I dont deserve and I'm in the top 10" and thats the case for it most of the time, its to expensive or to far because the PALs was a very important tournament for ranking but no one that was up there in skill level really showed up because its to expensive to get out there and it would suck if you paid all that money then lost right before you made it to the quarter finals to even get ranked. I dont know if its true or not but I heard that you can get ranked just from losing to the guy who wins the whole tournament.

That's one way to look at it, but how the points are awarded (it used to be listed on the old USAB site, I'll try to find an old version of it) are based on placement at the tournaments, not just winning it. So, for 2nd and 3rd place, I believe some of the tournaments did earn points.

Sure, if you show up to a tournament and no one else does, you win. There's really nothing that can be done about that. The boxer that shows up and wins (regardless of how) and earns the points. But the value of identifying these tournaments beforehand, from the coache's/boxer's prospective, is that we know which tournaments are important and can even rank their value towards the gaining rank- if that is your goal. IMO, participating in a tournament that has points awarded for 1st and 2nd place would be of more value than one that awards points only for 1st place. To me, knowing all of this before hand would help plan on which tournaments to go to and which to skip.

[Dennis]

Ranking tournaments also are impacted by luck of the draw. If you lose a close bout to the eventual champ in the preliminaries, you won't get any ranking points. Then a boxer who has an easy draw makes it to the ranking points rounds (quarter, semi and finals) and gets dominated, but still earns points. Who is the better boxer between the two boxers who lost? It happens all the time at tournaments.

[Jamel]

I can come up with good ideas once in awhile.

That is a really good idea but I just know theres always going to be that ONE person who'll complain and say "it'll be just like professional boxing if you take that idea :" Yeah that may be the case but it still would make alot more sense when you put the term in RANKING, ranking shouldnt mean "well I made it to a tournament that nobody else showed up because it was to expensive to travel so now I get these points I dont deserve and I'm in the top 10" and thats the case for it most of the time, its to expensive or to far because the PALs was a very important tournament for ranking but no one that was up there in skill level really showed up because its to expensive to get out there and it would suck if you paid all that money then lost right before you made it to the quarter finals to even get ranked. I dont know if its true or not but I heard that you can get ranked just from losing to the guy who wins the whole tournament.

That's one way to look at it, but how the points are awarded (it used to be listed on the old USAB site, I'll try to find an old version of it) are based on placement at the tournaments, not just winning it. So, for 2nd and 3rd place, I believe some of the tournaments did earn points.

Sure, if you show up to a tournament and no one else does, you win. There's really nothing that can be done about that. The boxer that shows up and wins (regardless of how) and earns the points. But the value of identifying these tournaments beforehand, from the coache's/boxer's prospective, is that we know which tournaments are important and can even rank their value towards the gaining rank- if that is your goal. IMO, participating in a tournament that has points awarded for 1st and 2nd place would be of more value than one that awards points only for 1st place. To me, knowing all of this before hand would help plan on which tournaments to go to and which to skip.

Oh I know that the winner isnt the only one that gets points, I know that they really start from the quarter finals and on up to the finals is where they start to rank boxers but I was told after they rank those guys/girls from the quarters up they start ranking guys who fought the guy/girl who wins the entire thing, but I dont know if its true or not I was always told you had to make it to the quarter finals to get in the top 10

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Ranking tournaments also are impacted by luck of the draw. If you lose a close bout to the eventual champ in the preliminaries, you won't get any ranking points. Then a boxer who has an easy draw makes it to the ranking points rounds (quarter, semi and finals) and gets dominated, but still earns points. Who is the better boxer between the two boxers who lost? It happens all the time at tournaments.

Yup. I look at that and try to use that as motivation We had a boxer who went to National Silver Gloves and had 4 other National Silver Gloves Champions in his side of the bracket. We just looked at it as much more impressive if we made it to the finals. The judges said that we lost to the eventual runner-up. So, it's just like you were saying, if this were a ranking tournament, we would get zero. No system is flawless.