Favorite Not So Greats

[Ambling Alp]

We usually talk about the great fighters, and the nearly great ones. However, you can't have great fighters if you don't have good,above average, average, below average and bad ones.

Actually sometimes it's more interesting watching two good fighters in a competitive fight than watching a great fighter dominate an average opponent.

Anyway, here are some guys that weren't great fighters. None won a major world title. But were fun to watch. None won a major world title. They range from serious contenders to journeyman.

Terrence Alli-On ESPN something like 25 times in the 1980's. Exciting fighter, lost two tough title fights.

Tommy Cordova-Another exciting fighter from the 1980's. Had a great fight with Freddie Roach.

Benny Briscoe-A real pro. Solid middleweight contender for years.

Tim Tomasek- Very limited fighter, but what a character. Literally came out of the audience to fight as a last minute replacement to fight Tommy Morrison on a Televised fight. How can you not like a guy that constantly says "jeepers".

Jerry Martin-Had three title shots, lost them all. (Galindez,Qawi, and Saad Muhammad.)Got cheated against Muhammad. Tough guy who never stopped trying. Went Rahway prison and beat James Scott.(Lopez, Kates and even Eddie Mustapha Muhammad all went there and lost to Scott.)

Earnie Shavers-Great guy, and always exciting.

Mickey Ward-Though often matched against more talented guys, he was usually competitive and occasionally won. Always gave it his all.

Tony Sibson-Tough guy. His win over Dwight Davison is underrated. He really took the fight to him.

Yaqui Lopez-Another lightheavyweight contender who couldn't quite win a title. His battle with Saad Muhammad was one for the ages.

Butterbean-Of course he wasn't that good and he fought mostly tomato cans. However, if you heard he was going to have a fight, you just had to watch it. He was fun.

I was wondering if you guys liked watching these guys and who else that was never world champion or a great fighter that you liked to watch.

[Ezzard]

Pat Cowdell and Errol Christie come to mind straight away.

Pat was very unfortunate to have met 2 top 10 all-time FWs in his 2 shots at the title. He was good enough to have won a belt in mnay other eras.

Chris Pyatt was another fave but he did win a title in the end...

When I think back it was all guys who had regular TV slots. This is how the sport made its superstars, kept popularity. British Title fights were often on regular TV. You'd get say a British title fight, an up and coming fighter on the undercard... then you'd get highlights of a major world title fight around the same weight. Watching the US highlights at the end of the show was always fantastic.

Saturday afternoons used to be great for this kind of thing.

[EriqS]

Reading your post immediately brought to mind a fighter with very limited skills, no defense, and an entertaining personality who put on some exciting shows on USA back in the '90's.

Remember Jesse James Hughes, the welterweight from Alabama who won the USBA title? He bled about a gallon every fight, and I remember one writer commenting that he "has an uncanny ability to get hit with everything thrown at him." But he had a string of spectacular come from behind knockouts that kept you from going to the can or to the fridge for another beer when he was fighting.

He was also found dead in a swamp with two bullet holes in his head. The case is still unsolved. I read somewhere that he had a nasty habit of sticking up dope dealers for their cash. Who knows what happened, but he was fun to watch.

[Expug]

Good thread,
EriqS, Good call on Hughes.I enjoyed watching that guy fight.

I knew Timmy Tomashek, I met him through Marty Jakubowski who I used to work out with on occasion at a gym in Whiting Indiana.
Tim was something else. Always laughing and smiling, he was fun to be around.

Some others,
Bobby Cassidy
Cyclone Hart
Tough Tony Suero
Wilbert Vampire Johnson
Frankie DePaula
Ray Elson
Charlie Devil Green
Bobby Halpern
There are so many, I could list a hundred easy.
These guys come to mind.

[kikibalt]

Manny Lugo....

[EriqS]

Good thread,
EriqS, Good call on Hughes.I enjoyed watching that guy fight.

I knew Timmy Tomashek, I met him through Marty Jakubowski who I used to work out with on occasion at a gym in Whiting Indiana.
Tim was something else. Always laughing and smiling, he was fun to be around.

Some others,
Bobby Cassidy
Cyclone Hart
Tough Tony Suero
Wilbert Vampire Johnson
Frankie DePaula
Ray Elson
Charlie Devil Green
Bobby Halpern
There are so many, I could list a hundred easy.
These guys come to mind.

So, Expug, you knew Marty Jakubowski? I always wondered how he was able to fight so often. I mean, I look at his win/KO ratio and can guess that his style wasn't that of a brawler--which would allow him to fight more often and not have to take time off to heal. But I was looking at his record the other day and noticed that he fought 40+ times in one year! It's almost as if he just fought instead of going to the gym to spar. I know several decades ago fighters fought more often, but the pace he maintained was really rare for this day and age.

[Expug]

Yes, Marty fought all the time here in the Midwest.
He also worked hard in the gym, but the gym he trained out of didnt have alot of guys his size, so he used to spar quite a bit with a fighter named Jack Callahan who fought Matthew Hilton for a belt.
Many people dont realize that early in his career, Marty was almost killed when he was at a carnival in East Chicago Ind. and some idiot stabbed him.
It was rough there for a little while but he recovered obviously and had a good career.
Hes a nice guy.He has a brother who fought also, but Ive never met him.
Heck, I think they fought each other.

[Seamus]

A carnival in East Chicago ? Now there's potential for trouble.

[Expug]

Thinking back to that gym in Whiting Indiana that Marty trained in , and sometimes I worked out at,
It was right above City Hall.
Ya gotta love that.Politicians browbeating one another with the rattle of the speedbag going on upstairs.
I wonder if that gym is still there.
I like Whiting. A good town .

[bennie]

I was always a big fan of Bruce Curry. They threw that guy in with everyone and he overcame a few heavy defeats to win the WBC light-welterweight title on a balmy night in Las Vegas in 1983.
Sadly, he loved boxing too much.

[AngryGoon38]

Yes, Marty fought all the time here in the Midwest.
He also worked hard in the gym, but the gym he trained out of didnt have alot of guys his size, so he used to spar quite a bit with a fighter named Jack Callahan who fought Matthew Hilton for a belt.
Many people dont realize that early in his career, Marty was almost killed when he was at a carnival in East Chicago Ind. and some idiot stabbed him.
It was rough there for a little while but he recovered obviously and had a good career.
Hes a nice guy.He has a brother who fought also, but Ive never met him.
Heck, I think they fought each other.

yeah.the two brothers boxed one another.

Marty vs Eric.

Marty won by a 5th round tko i believe.

[AngryGoon38]

Just to add a bit to this thread...other noteworthy Favorite "Not So Great" boxers...

-Andy Ganigan
-Pete Ranzany
-Bobby Chaz(sp?)
-Mathew Hilton
-Curtis Parker
-Juan Roldan
-Rocky Mattioli
-Harold Brazier
-Robin Blake
-Doug Dewitt
-Buck Smith
-Tommy Morrison
-Joe Hipp
-Bruce Seldon
-Bert Cooper
-James "HardRock" Green
-Jimmy Thunder
-Emmanuel "Augustus" Burton

[Syntax Error]

1) Matthew Saad Muhammad - real life LHW Rocky Balboa.

2) Paul 'Scrap Iron' Ryan - you couldn't blink when this guy fought because he'd either spark his opponent out or he'd get sparked himself. There was no in-between with him.

3) Georgie Smith - short career; he had power to burn. I've often wondered how he would have fared had he fought longer & progressed up the rankings.

[The Great John L]

Ray Windmill White
Art Hafey
Vinnie Curto
Eddie Lopez
Ibar Arrington
Kelvin Davis
Willie Warren
Tyronne Rackley

to name a few.

[HomicideHenry]

Peter McNeeley
Tommy Morrison
Eric "Butterbean" Esch
Chuck Wepner
Tom McNeeley
Everett "Bigfoot" Martin
Joe "The Boss" Hipp
Monte Masters
Don "The Man Of" Steele


Mostly men of the club fight scene...

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

The Mexican bantamweight Jose Medel

[Crease]

My favouite "not sio greats" would be:

Chuck Wepner (BACK IN THE DAY)
Tommy Morrison
"Butterbean" -Eric Esch
Ernie Shavers,
Oscar Bonavena

[enrique]

Hey ex pug:

I spent some years in Whiting. I graduated high school at George Rogers Clark in 1967.

At the time there was no boxing gym in Whiting, so Hammond and Whiting guys either trained at the Gary Boxing Club or went to Chicago. I trained with Johnny Coulon in Stony Island.

In my high school there were three of us boxing amateur. Ron Pruzinski -a feather- Tony Tomko- a lightweight and me (LH). I wonder what ever happened to those guys?

Whiting is a good town. This Cuban dated a few Polish American girls....

[raylawpc]

One of my favorite fighters in the "almost" great catagory was welterweight contender Armando Muniz. Crowd-pleaser, great work ethic, intelligent and well-spoken, and an all-around classy guy.

Frank posted a photo of him yesterday on the California thread. He looks like he could still go 15-rounds, and he's still a class guy. He's now a master's degree-level high school Spanish teacher.

I've hesitated adding his name to this thread because, while he was an "almost great" fighter, he is truly a great human being, and that counts more, I think.

[Expug]

Hey ex pug:

I spent some years in Whiting. I graduated high school at George Rogers Clark in 1967.

At the time there was no boxing gym in Whiting, so Hammond and Whiting guys either trained at the Gary Boxing Club or went to Chicago. I trained with Johnny Coulon in Stony Island.

In my high school there were three of us boxing amateur. Ron Pruzinski -a feather- Tony Tomko- a lightweight and me (LH). I wonder what ever happened to those guys?

Whiting is a good town. This Cuban dated a few Polish American girls....

Enrique,I like Whiting.Theres something about that town that appeals to me also.
Its gritty, but clean and nice.
Hey, do you remember Phil Schmidts restaraunt down that way?Great perch and frog legs.
It closed after over fifty years in operation.
I remember the Gary Boys Club.I fought one or two guys out of that gym in the amateurs in the seventies. I didnt do too bad I came in second .

[HomicideHenry]

Jerry Evans "The Byrdstown Bomber", rated number four by the WBA in the 1970's


Made a comeback in 1997 I believe at the age of 50 against a billed "world kick boxing champion", and fought to an eight round draw.

[enrique]

Evans was from Muncie Indiana and trained at the Fifth Street gym in Miami Beach.