The growing dichotomy between amateur and pro boxing

[DCAmateurBoxing]

It is so much better LIVE. People need to go support their boxers at the shows. Some of the people who complain about the ticket prices of $10 don't hesitate to go to a movie and spend about the same for a ticket and then even more for popcorn, a drink and some candy.

I agree Dennis, it's much better live. I also agree that people should support our local boxing programs, but that's because I'm close to the sport. When a family brings 4 people at $20 per person and then their son or daughter doesn't get a match as "promised", it's kind of hard to convince them to do it repeatedly. It's hard for families new to boxing to understand how it works and local shows. Unfortunately, it only takes one time of going through this kind of situation until they understand. Sure, they can sit and enjoy the show, but it may prevent them from financially bringing the entire family or friends when their son or daughter does get a match. Using your analogy, I wouldn't like it very much if I paid $10 for popcorn, more for drink and candy and didn't get the watch the movie I thought I was going to watch or no movie at all

[Jamel]

It is so much better LIVE. People need to go support their boxers at the shows. Some of the people who complain about the ticket prices of $10 don't hesitate to go to a movie and spend about the same for a ticket and then even more for popcorn, a drink and some candy.

I agree Dennis, it's much better live. I also agree that people should support our local boxing programs, but that's because I'm close to the sport. .When a family brings 4 people at $20 per person and then their son or daughter doesn't get a match as "promised", it's kind of hard to convince them to do it repeatedly It's hard for families new to boxing to understand how it works and local shows. Unfortunately, it only takes one time of going through this kind of situation until they understand. Sure, they can sit and enjoy the show, but it may prevent them from financially bringing the entire family or friends when their son or daughter does get a match. Using your analogy, I wouldn't like it very much if I paid $10 for popcorn, more for drink and candy and didn't get the watch the movie I thought I was going to watch or no movie at all

Yes you are right DC because I still have that problem today with friends and family, just about every time I have a bout locally they always ask is it free or how much if it isnt because theres been plenty of time I went to a bout and opponents didnt show up.

[Dennis]

If it is your club's show, you can have 2 or 3 boxers lined up as potential opponents for your club's boxers. You try to make sure that they will have an opponent. Sometimes you have to take on a tougher opponent than you would like to ensure an opponent.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

If it is your club's show, you can have 2 or 3 boxers lined up as potential opponents for your club's boxers. You try to make sure that they will have an opponent. Sometimes you have to take on a tougher opponent than you would like to ensure an opponent.

Yup. Unfortunately, most are other club's shows, but we hope to have one or two in the next year ourselves. I just tell family and friends upfront that nothing is guaranteed and that even if the boxer you want to see doesn't get a match, there will be a good night of boxing. I just had the same thing happen. Sold tickets to event to some friends (I told them there will be a lot of great bouts and there were), but the boxer they wanted to see had an opponent that pulled out at last minute. The other two boxers that he could have matched also had already been matched. That's just the way it goes.

[Jamel]

If it is your club's show, you can have 2 or 3 boxers lined up as potential opponents for your club's boxers. You try to make sure that they will have an opponent. Sometimes you have to take on a tougher opponent than you would like to ensure an opponent.

Yup. Unfortunately, most are other club's shows, but we hope to have one or two in the next year ourselves. I just tell family and friends upfront that nothing is guaranteed and that even if the boxer you want to see doesn't get a match, there will be a good night of boxing. I just had the same thing happen. Sold tickets to event to some friends (I told them there will be a lot of great bouts and there were), but the boxer they wanted to see had an opponent that pulled out at last minute. The other two boxers that he could have matched also had already been matched. That's just the way it goes.

Yup same thing happened to me in Fort Dix New Jeresey in July, I was matched up for weeks but things changed the day of the bout and it didnt just happen to me.

[Dennis]

It happens to everyone. It is worse now than it was in 1980 when I got started in amateur boxing. Many boxers and people in general have no qualms with breaking a promise. They commit to something and then just fail to show without an explanation or just give a lame one.

[Kolya]

It happens to everyone. It is worse now than it was in 1980 when I got started in amateur boxing. Many boxers and people in general have no qualms with breaking a promise. They commit to something and then just fail to show without an explanation or just give a lame one.

This is something that drives my coach insane and that my club refuses to do. Unless you get hurt or have some legitimate excuse, once you're committed, you're committed. And then if it turns out you can't go my coach will call the host of the show days in advance to try to leave them enough time to get the other guy matched. It's happened to me once, I was going to have a match bout at our Regional GG and about half and hour before the event started, the other coach pulled his guy out.

[Dennis]

It happens to everyone. It is worse now than it was in 1980 when I got started in amateur boxing. Many boxers and people in general have no qualms with breaking a promise. They commit to something and then just fail to show without an explanation or just give a lame one.

This is something that drives my coach insane and that my club refuses to do. Unless you get hurt or have some legitimate excuse, once you're committed, you're committed. And then if it turns out you can't go my coach will call the host of the show days in advance to try to leave them enough time to get the other guy matched. It's happened to me once, I was going to have a match bout at our Regional GG and about half and hour before the event started, the other coach pulled his guy out.

It drives all of us nuts.

[Jamel]

It happens to everyone. It is worse now than it was in 1980 when I got started in amateur boxing. Many boxers and people in general have no qualms with breaking a promise. They commit to something and then just fail to show without an explanation or just give a lame one.

This is something that drives my coach insane and that my club refuses to do. Unless you get hurt or have some legitimate excuse, once you're committed, you're committed. And then if it turns out you can't go my coach will call the host of the show days in advance to try to leave them enough time to get the other guy matched. It's happened to me once, I was going to have a match bout at our Regional GG and about half and hour before the event started, the other coach pulled his guy out.

It drives all of us nuts.

Hey... It happens

[rmz]

That's something I don't understand about the matchmaking. I worked at one of the regional tournaments of the Michigan Silver Gloves last December doing registration. The club I box for was running the tournament and we had asked coaches to mail in their registration ahead of time to make the registration process easier and to help improve the likelihood of the boxers getting a match. But the majority of clubs had all their fighters register on the day of the tournament. Not only was it hectic, but a lot kids didn't get fights. Some of these kids came from out of town and/or their parents took time off work. I understand things come up like kids getting sick, family emergency, etc...but I thought it would make a lot more sense if everyone was registered ahead of time, that way we'd have the matchmaking done before the tournament and people wouldn't be coming to the tournament and end up not getting a fight.

[boxmel]

One way to do it is to be hard-nosed about entry deadlines. Don't alllow walk-ins/same day registrations. It works. :!:

[Dennis]

That's something I don't understand about the matchmaking. I worked at one of the regional tournaments of the Michigan Silver Gloves last December doing registration. The club I box for was running the tournament and we had asked coaches to mail in their registration ahead of time to make the registration process easier and to help improve the likelihood of the boxers getting a match. But the majority of clubs had all their fighters register on the day of the tournament. Not only was it hectic, but a lot kids didn't get fights. Some of these kids came from out of town and/or their parents took time off work. I understand things come up like kids getting sick, family emergency, etc...but I thought it would make a lot more sense if everyone was registered ahead of time, that way we'd have the matchmaking done before the tournament and people wouldn't be coming to the tournament and end up not getting a fight.

We have done that previously in Michigan and it was not an improvement in my opinion. By doing it that way, the coaches do not have the option of moving the boxer up in experience class and they can't make any matched bouts. Matched bouts at these tournaments happen frequently. A kid who is 14 (14-15 class) and 110# can box a kid who is 13 (12-13 class) and 112#. You can also have a boxer who is 10 and 87# (90# class) go against a kid who is 11 and 84# (85# class). They will both be uncontested champs in the 10-11 age group, but they are within 5# and can box each other in a matched bout.

I know the reasoning behind the preregistration - people don't have to travel if they aren't prematched. However, I have had so many prematches fall through over the years for my boxers that I don't put that much emphasis on them. We end up taking a bunch of boxers to shows and get a lot of them matched at the show. Too many things are unknown - a boxer gets sick or injured and can't compete. Boxers don't pass their physical for a variety of reasons. Boxers don't weigh what their coach says he or she will weigh (sometimes optimistic coaches, but usually it is the boxer being optimistic). Boxers show up and a coach recognizes the boxer and realizes the bout would be a huge mismatch so they back out. Boxers turn out to be older than their coach remembered (the coaches send in the info) - this has happened many times. The list goes on and on, but the biggest reason is the boxer just backing out because they get nervous or have to work or something similar.

[boxmel]

Blue & Gold registrations were always due two week prior to the registration and draw. However, a boxer could change weight classe during registration. Worked better than walk-in registration - smoother; I put everyone in the draw program as the entries were received and made any changes during registration.

[Dennis]

I wouldn't have a problem with preregistration that allowed for changing weight classes at the weigh-in, especially for junior tournaments. Young kids can get a growth spurt and change a weight class almost overnight.

[boxmel]

I wouldn't have a problem with preregistration that allowed for changing weight classes at the weigh-in,

I don't think advancing tournaments allow for weight changes. :!:

[Dennis]

At the first official weigh-in the tournament can allow changes.

[boxmel]

At the first official weigh-in the tournament can allow changes.

Can't do that at the U.S. Championships or Under-19 or JO Nationals. Golden Gloves? Probably, since they don't follow the rules anyway.

[skinnyman]

It seems like our local Golden Gloves does whatever they want as long as they can get their liquor.

[Dennis]

At the first official weigh-in the tournament can allow changes.

Can't do that at the U.S. Championships or Under-19 or JO Nationals. Golden Gloves? Probably, since they don't follow the rules anyway.

Mel - your negativity towards the Golden Gloves does get old. It is those kinds of comments/attitudes that cause problems in amateur boxing. USAB should be working with its group members instead of against them all the time. Actually, I wasn't referring to any particular tournament, but now that you brought it up I will give an example. It was a USA Boxing tournament - the Midwestern Trials. They had preregistration, but did allow boxers to change weight classes at the registration/official weigh-in. Once that was done, they were no longer allowed to change as the brackets were set. So if you think that it is a violation of rules to allow it, then it is USAB violating its own rules!!!

[boxmel]

Mel - your negativity towards the Golden Gloves does get old.

Sorry, Dennis - I just don't have any respect for an organization that refuses to follow the rules or to give the boxers the best, such as electronic scoring.

It is those kinds of comments/attitudes that cause problems in amateur boxing.

I haven't found that any of my opinions about Golden Gloves has caused any problems. Most coaches agree with me.

USAB should be working with its group members instead of against them all the time.

USAB should get some balls and tell GG that it either shapes up or their Group Membership contract is not renewed.

then it is USAB violating its own rules!!!

Yeah - they do that periodically.

[Dennis]

Mel - your negativity towards the Golden Gloves does get old.

Sorry, Dennis - I just don't have any respect for an organization that refuses to follow the rules or to give the boxers the best, such as electronic scoring.

It is those kinds of comments/attitudes that cause problems in amateur boxing.

I haven't found that any of my opinions about Golden Gloves has caused any problems. Most coaches agree with me.

USAB should be working with its group members instead of against them all the time.

USAB should get some balls and tell GG that it either shapes up or their Group Membership contract is not renewed.

then it is USAB violating its own rules!!!

Yeah - they do that periodically.

Mel - you don't seem to care when USAB doesn't follow the rules, but get bent out of shape when there are allegations against the GG.
Electronic scoring is giving the boxers the best? Anyone who watched the 2008 Olympics would definitely question that logic. I also don't think that most coaches would agree with you regarding your attitude towards the Golden Gloves. I happen to know many coaches who only take boxers to the GG and not to the USA Boxing tournament (LBC tourney leading to the U.S. Championships). Many boxers prefer the GG too. Why? How many National J.O. or U.S. Championships have over 2,000 people in attendance? ZERO!!! Many GG tournaments have way more than that number. USAB has tried hard to minimize the importance of the Group Member tournaments by giving stipends to the U.S. Championships semi-finalists and finalists and by giving their tournament higher ranking points.

[boxmel]

Mel - you don't seem to care when USAB doesn't follow the rules, but get bent out of shape when there are allegations against the GG.

Yes, I do care when USAB fudges the rules. I get real bent of out shape when I see GG break safety rules, and cheat. These are not allegations - for instance, I have been asked to cheat at a national GG - didn't, and got cut. I have seen blatant cheating at the California tournaments. I don't work them.

Electronic scoring is giving the boxers the best?

At this point, it is used at every national tournament EXCEPT GG. GG is supposed to use it during an Olympic year - and they don't. As long as electronic scoring is used in major international events, including the Olympics, it behooves us to use it anytime we can.

I also don't think that most coaches would agree with you regarding your attitude towards the Golden Gloves. I happen to know many coaches who only take boxers to the GG and not to the USA Boxing tournament (LBC tourney leading to the U.S. Championships).

And I know many coaches who do the opposite.

Many GG tournaments have way more than that number.

Maybe in a few parts of the country - but not the majority of the U.S.

USAB has tried hard to minimize the importance of the Group Member tournaments by giving stipends to the U.S. Championships semi-finalists and finalists and by giving their tournament higher ranking points.

And why not? What does GG lead to in a non-Olympic year? Or PAL? Or Silver Gloves? USA Boxing is THE national governing body for all amateur boxing in the U.S. and GG has had a hard time with that since they couldn't scrape together the money to take over after the demise of the AAU in 1976.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this subject, Dennis. I am not a Golden Glover nor will I ever be. I think every open boxer should go to the GG AND the PAL AND the U.S. Championships AND every other opportunity that is available. But they should also know there are differences and be prepared for them. Each individual has a choice.

[Dennis]

Maybe you have problems in your GG, but don't transfer that to every other GG franchise. GG gives out a lot of scholarships and it has helped many boxers go to college including my son.

[Dennis]

EliteXC just went out of business. I'm very surprised.

[boxmel]

Maybe you have problems in your GG, but don't transfer that to every other GG franchise. GG gives out a lot of scholarships and it has helped many boxers go to college including my son.

I have a problem with the national GG, not just the California franchise, so I'll transfer wherever I want. As I said, Dennis, we're going to have to agree to disagree - and I'm not talking about the scholarships (which are also available through USAB), I'm talking about their general refusal to follow the rules.