Brilliant article by Steve Kim on Hopkins-Pavlik

[Gray-Fox]

http://www.maxboxing.com/Kim/Kim101308.asp

I really hope he's wrong though.

[Mensa07]

I disagree with a lot of the Hopkins-bashing you see of late. I don't think he's a boring fighter at all, I like watching technical fighters.

People cry when he 'neutralises' his opponents, but surely theres an onus on the opponent not to allow himself to be neutralised. You can't complain Hopkins isn't fighting fair because he won't give you a free shot at his chin.

I'd love to have seen a Hopkins/Toney trilogy at 160, 168 then 175.

[Carbo]

Unless I've read it wrong, I'm not sure I can agree with Steve Kim on this one. He seems to imply that Hopkins has lost his anger, has become and industry insider and has grown soft, and that this is why he doesn't 'extend' himself as he once did.

Is this not missing the obvious?

Fourteenth century British philosopher William Okham came up with the principle of ‘Okham's razor’, which argued that if the evidence supported it, the least complex and convoluted explanation for events was the best.

Kim seems to ignore this, indulging in bar-room psychology rather than just accepting that Hopkins got old.

Hopkins no longer has the speed to pull the trigger as he once did, nor the stamina to fight for 3 minutes of 12 rounds. What he does have is an unrivalled knowledge of every skill that can be employed in a boxing ring, and he uses this to neutralize his opponent, spoil the fight and eek out wins. He got old, and now he has to rely on savvy to win.

Why ramble on about being an ‘industry insider’ and wearing 'silk pyjamas' when the explanation for the change in Hopkins's style is slapping us in the face.

I also disagree with Kim’s argument that Hopkins is “not even close to being the guy who should've had his hand raised at least once versus Taylor in 2005.” Combined with the rest of the article, it implies Hopkins’s performances have dropped precipitously in the last two or three years, which is not the case. He has been declining steadily since the Trinidad performance way back when. His recent performances are merely an extension of this decline.

Should we not be celebrating Hopkins, though, as a 40 something year old who can genuinely hang with the elite? OK, he might not be the most entertaining to watch, but I’m sure young fighters could learn much about the dark arts of boxing – and the dedication it needs to reach the top – by watching him go to work.

[Mensa07]

I also disagree with Kim’s argument that Hopkins is “not even close to being the guy who should've had his hand raised at least once versus Taylor in 2005.” Combined with the rest of the article, it implies Hopkins’s performances have dropped precipitously in the last two or three years, which is not the case. He has been declining steadily since the Trinidad performance way back when. His recent performances are merely an extension of this decline.

agreed, to say he "isn't even close" to the guy who fought Taylor seems absurd to me?

Kim and Hopkins have a history I believe, theres probably a little personal feeling creeping into the article, thats how it reads to me anyway.

[TerribleTerry]

I watched Countdown to Pavlik-Hopkins last night (another superbly put together show from HBO - they are the best in the business).

In it there was footage of Hopkins walking to the neutral corner at the end of rounds on 3 or 4 occassions... Could be nothing or, as Freddie Roach was quoted on the show, it could be a sign of him slowing down mentally (if only in terms of concentration 'in fight'). It certainly made for thought provoking viewing..

[Max Molyneux]

Hopkins cheating could win him this fight.

Pavlik has only fought Jermain Taylor at world class and Is Inexperianced at world level. Plus his strength will be average at Light Heavy.

[Datsue]

Plus his strength will be average at Light Heavy.

I agree with that line. I think Pavlik's one of those "Freakish at one weight, less so at higher weights" guys.

[Wales]

Like Hatton?

We'll know by Sunday morning one way or the other if Pavlik is the real deal. Im edging toward Bernard nicking this one... anyone know the odds?

[Poncey]

From bestbetting:

Hopkins, B 11/4 5/2 9/4 11/4 5/2 11/4 11/4 13/5 5/2 5/2 5/2 5/2 11/4 5/2 5/2 11/4 11/4 2 2.45/1 3.3/1 2.95/1
Draw 20 18 20 25 20 20 20 20 20 22 22 18 25 22 18 18 22 16 22 27 -
Pavlik, K 1/4 1/4 31/100 2/9 2/7 1/4 2/7 2/7 7/25 2/7 2/7 1/4 1/4 2/7 1/4 1/4 2/9 4/11 0.32/1 0.32/1 0.26

I can't be arsed to format it.

[Mensa07]

odds look way off to me, I wouldn't make anybody in the sport a 1/4 favourite over Hopkins.

[Gray-Fox]

Kim and Hopkins have a history I believe, theres probably a little personal feeling creeping into the article, thats how it reads to me anyway.

Fischer and Hopkins do, ergo Kim and Hopkins do too. They don't like him as he's not one of those fighters that lays it on the line, and I think Dougie had an altercation with him in the past.

[Twinkle Toes]

Interesting to see how Hopkins was so much about anti-establishment - Until he was a part of it.

Typical.

[Autobarn]

So Hopkins isn't boring? He has developed a parisitic style - neutralise the other guy and do nothing assertive yourself.

Hopkins has found a clarity of style? Clear - all his recent fights have been a muddle of did he or didn't he do anough (apart from Tarver). Of huffing and puffing (pre fight) then smoke and mirrors (in the fight itself). Of, "can I sit through 11 more rounds of this shit"? Of "why can't this man retire"?

Kim is right, Pavlik should have had more options, shouldn't be fighting on Hopkins' terms (light heavy, where Pavlik hasn't fought, not at a high level). Big time boxing should be better than this, big stages should not be given to men who promise so much and provide so little during in a fight.

That's why it's up to Pavlik to put Hopkins away. Guys like Hopkins are clogging up the sport but it's up to the younger fighters to do the business. The younger guys really have to deliver, like Dawson did last week. Pavlik's two fights with Talor have hopefully got his boxing up to scratch.

Who cares about did Kim have a history with Hopkins. If Hopkins tried to slander Lou DiBella via MaxBoxing and everyone ended up in court etc, that means Kim can't be critical of Hopkins?

[Autobarn]

Also, you have to wonder, things would be so much better if Calzaghe had fought Pavlik. That would have made everything so much simpler.

[tonyevs]

The bottom line is - boxing is entertainment and for a number of years Hopkins hasn`t brought any.

He hasn`t got the style to excite or the charisma to endear .. even if he catches Pavlik with one of the right hands that put Calzaghe down with the fight will be sleep enducing to that point.

[Mensa07]

Kim and Hopkins have a history I believe, theres probably a little personal feeling creeping into the article, thats how it reads to me anyway.

Fischer and Hopkins do, ergo Kim and Hopkins do too. They don't like him as he's not one of those fighters that lays it on the line, and I think Dougie had an altercation with him in the past.

I thought it was directly between Kim and Bernard, wasn't there a court case over something, and a confrontation between the two? I cant remember but it rings a bell anyway.

[Autobarn]

You're all focusing too much on what happened between Kim and Hopkins as if it colours the content of every article being written. When KG goes on about ppl being whingers on this forum he can be right (even though I usually disagree with him on subjects).

Has someone been watching too many twitchy conspiracy theory films ala Oliver Stone?

[Mensa07]

You're all focusing too much on what happened between Kim and Hopkins as if it colours the content of every article being written. When KG goes on about ppl being whingers on this forum he can be right (even though I usually disagree with him on subjects).

Has someone been watching too many twitchy conspiracy theory films ala Oliver Stone?

lol, colours the content of every article being written. Thats a bit of a leap dont ya think?

I read the article & thought it was unnecessarily negative on Hopkins, so yeah if there is a personal beef between writer and fighter I think its worth pointing out in that case, don't you?

As for whingeing, reading thru the thread I can only see one dude here who sounds like he's getting upset over all this???

[observer1]

So Hopkins isn't boring? He has developed a parisitic style - neutralise the other guy and do nothing assertive yourself.

Hopkins has found a clarity of style? Clear - all his recent fights have been a muddle of did he or didn't he do anough (apart from Tarver). Of huffing and puffing (pre fight) then smoke and mirrors (in the fight itself). Of, "can I sit through 11 more rounds of this shit"? Of "why can't this man retire"?

Kim is right, Pavlik should have had more options, shouldn't be fighting on Hopkins' terms (light heavy, where Pavlik hasn't fought, not at a high level). Big time boxing should be better than this, big stages should not be given to men who promise so much and provide so little during in a fight.

That's why it's up to Pavlik to put Hopkins away. Guys like Hopkins are clogging up the sport but it's up to the younger fighters to do the business. The younger guys really have to deliver, like Dawson did last week. Pavlik's two fights with Talor have hopefully got his boxing up to scratch.

Who cares about did Kim have a history with Hopkins. If Hopkins tried to slander Lou DiBella via MaxBoxing and everyone ended up in court etc, that means Kim can't be critical of Hopkins?

Guys like Hopkins is clogging up the sport?

Sorry, but if you guys want to see mindless brain bashing, go watch MMA. There is more to Hay-Makers in Boxing

[bennie]

Philadelphia's canny Bernard Hopkins continues to cash in on his name when he takes on Youngstown puncher Kelly Pavlik in a 12-round non-title affair this Saturday in Atlantic City.
The 43-year-old Hopkins was narrowly outscored by Joe Calzaghe over 12 dreary rounds earlier this year at light-heavyweight - his third loss in his last five outings - but is still immensely durable (never stopped) and knows how to make opponents work and to 'sell' a fight. Above all, he knows how to sell himself as a former undisputed middleweight champion. Given Pavlik holds two middleweight belts, Bernard finds himself in the right place at the right time again, even though this one is made at well above the middleweight limit at 12st 2lbs.
That actually suits Pavlik, who struggles to make the 11st 6lbs division limit but destroyed Calzaghe's stablemate Gary Lockett in three one-sided rounds last time out in June in Atlantic City to take his record to an imposing 34-0 (30). Nicknamed "Ghost", Pavlik literally walks through his rivals and is still improving fighter at 26. Hopkins, in contrast, looked to be showing his age in the Calzaghe fight. Pavlik wins this by a unanimous decision, possibly by a late-round stoppage.

[Autobarn]

You're all focusing too much on what happened between Kim and Hopkins as if it colours the content of every article being written. When KG goes on about ppl being whingers on this forum he can be right (even though I usually disagree with him on subjects).

Has someone been watching too many twitchy conspiracy theory films ala Oliver Stone?

lol, colours the content of every article being written. Thats a bit of a leap dont ya think?

I read the article & thought it was unnecessarily negative on Hopkins, so yeah if there is a personal beef between writer and fighter I think its worth pointing out in that case, don't you?

As for whingeing, reading thru the thread I can only see one dude here who sounds like he's getting upset over all this???

yeah, I mean it's not like Hopkins is dull or anything is it?

[Autobarn]

So Hopkins isn't boring? He has developed a parisitic style - neutralise the other guy and do nothing assertive yourself.

Hopkins has found a clarity of style? Clear - all his recent fights have been a muddle of did he or didn't he do anough (apart from Tarver). Of huffing and puffing (pre fight) then smoke and mirrors (in the fight itself). Of, "can I sit through 11 more rounds of this shit"? Of "why can't this man retire"?

Kim is right, Pavlik should have had more options, shouldn't be fighting on Hopkins' terms (light heavy, where Pavlik hasn't fought, not at a high level). Big time boxing should be better than this, big stages should not be given to men who promise so much and provide so little during in a fight.

That's why it's up to Pavlik to put Hopkins away. Guys like Hopkins are clogging up the sport but it's up to the younger fighters to do the business. The younger guys really have to deliver, like Dawson did last week. Pavlik's two fights with Talor have hopefully got his boxing up to scratch.

Who cares about did Kim have a history with Hopkins. If Hopkins tried to slander Lou DiBella via MaxBoxing and everyone ended up in court etc, that means Kim can't be critical of Hopkins?

Guys like Hopkins is clogging up the sport?

Sorry, but if you guys want to see mindless brain bashing, go watch MMA. There is more to Hay-Makers in Boxing

What, so if you don't like Hopkins, you don't like boxing? There are better names out there than Hopkins who give the sport a good name (i.e. Juan Manuel Marquez), who show boxing skills and are in compelling fights.

Hopkins is neutralising opponents but not doing much actual fighting - then whining about not getting decisions. If a guy wants to make the other fighter look bad, but isn't going to take enough calculated risks to make sure he has enough rounds to take a decision, then this is not good. I don't like seeing him get the big fight opportunities because he is sucking all that is good out of fights.

If Pavlik is fit and intelligent enough to win, then all is well. Pavlik isn't just a haymaker, is he? It's surely better to see guys like Pavlik in exciting matchups, than ones that are just seemingly designed to make him look bad.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Philadelphia's canny Bernard Hopkins continues to cash in on his name when he takes on Youngstown puncher Kelly Pavlik in a 12-round non-title affair this Saturday in Atlantic City.
The 43-year-old Hopkins was narrowly outscored by Joe Calzaghe over 12 dreary rounds earlier this year at light-heavyweight - his third loss in his last five outings - but is still immensely durable (never stopped) and knows how to make opponents work and to 'sell' a fight. Above all, he knows how to sell himself as a former undisputed middleweight champion. Given Pavlik holds two middleweight belts, Bernard finds himself in the right place at the right time again, even though this one is made at well above the middleweight limit at 12st 2lbs.
That actually suits Pavlik, who struggles to make the 11st 6lbs division limit but destroyed Calzaghe's stablemate Gary Lockett in three one-sided rounds last time out in June in Atlantic City to take his record to an imposing 34-0 (30). Nicknamed "Ghost", Pavlik literally walks through his rivals and is still improving fighter at 26. Hopkins, in contrast, looked to be showing his age in the Calzaghe fight. Pavlik wins this by a unanimous decision, possibly by a late-round stoppage.

Wonderful Journalism, not quite as good as "Manchester United, like professional Undertakers, are dancing over the graves of the opposition defense"

Good lord, what funerals had he been going to?