Marquez-Pacquiao

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 09 May 2004, 06:34

Well it is official, the Las Vegas judges know f**k all about Boxing. Marquez clearly beat the one dimensional Pacquiao, it seems that if you knock someone down in the first round 3 times it gives you an advantage throughout the fight no matter what happens later. Marquez was quicker, smoother and more economical yet the judges favour brawn over brains, Pacquiao is raw but easily tamed. They may as well change the name of the sport from Boxing to "Aggression"...wouldn't say no to a rematch though

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 09 May 2004, 06:37

According to my US counterparts, HBO were on their home fighters dick again too. They had Pac-Man winning. Unbelievable. I'm beginning to dislike boxing. For one reason I hate the fickle fans and media, and for the other, it's as bent as a hairpin.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 May 2004, 06:41

steve689 wrote:Well it is official, the Las Vegas judges know f**k all about Boxing.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 09 May 2004, 06:45

It's also official. Steve689 types quicker than i do.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 May 2004, 06:55

Well this was the first time I've been really impressed with Marquez. But WOW

what a first round I really thought it was all over after the first round.

Like Jim Watt mentioned on SKY Marquez seemed to cope better mentaly with the first round knockdowns better than Pacquiao as daft as that sounds, which I found quite interesting.

I was very impressed with Marquez's accurate and hurtfull counter-punches (is this why Hamed never fought him?). I feel this is maybe the reason that Pacquiao didn't turn up the pressure in the later rounds. He realized the Mexicain had 'warmed' to his punches so even if he laded a few heavy shot he would be punished with very hard accurate punches to body and head.

I thought Marquez won clearly by a couple of rounds. Like Barry McGuigan said in the SKY studio after the fight, if there is a rematch all Marquez has to do is cover up for the first few round and then apply his own game plan and the fight is his.

The Pac Man appeares not to have the varitey and skill, to beat the more skillfull Mexicain. Having said that I still feel the rematch would be another tough fight.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 09 May 2004, 07:05

1. I picked Pac Man to win a decision.

2. I'm glad Marquez didn't lose his titles because he did win the fight just.

3. Darke & Watt were AWFUL. They gave Manny zero credit for any defensive moves. If Pac wasn't landing his big left then Marquez was winning the round automatically according to those two, whether the champion was actually landing punches or not.

4. Marquez would be a rightful favourite in a rematch but don't totally discount Manny bringing better tactics.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 May 2004, 09:02

Marquez won the fight clear enough for me. I had him 2 or 3 rounds infront. Jim and Ian didn't give Pacquiao enough credit, but compared to HBO they were Fantastic. I post on some sensible US forums and I'm the only one who saw it for Maquez. Many agree with the 115-111 scorecard.

Very strange.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 May 2004, 09:44

Check the score cards out.

http://www.fightnews.com/pacquiao-marquez_scorecard.gif

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 09 May 2004, 11:11

I hated the commentary for this fight. Incredibly biased just like they were with Mosley vs Oscar 2. In that fight all they could say was "Oscar this" and "Oscar that". They completly ignored any work Mosley was doing. It drove me crazy at the time.

Same with this fight, McGuigan called this a travesty. Him saying that is a complete joke. He made it sound as if it was a whitewash. At times they were completely ignoring any work Pacman was doing and seemed enchanted with JMM boxing, even though he was not landing anything of signifigance.

Im watching it right now and they keep putting the spotlight on Pacman to make the fight as if he's the one who needs to press the fight because he's behind when it was the other way round. The first round was 10-6 by the way, I think the Sky comms only marked it 10-7. The judge who had it a draw done the same and if he had have marked it correctly Pacman would be the winner.

Don't be fooled by the commentary, it can be heavily influencial I think. The BBC's scorecards and commentary during the Tarver vs Jones fight was awful as well. The seemed to punish Jones in that fight because he wasn't his usual self even though he was winning the rounds. They scored it for Tarver even though Jones won by a couple of rounds. The American commentary is mile ahead of the British I think. They give far better insights and know their shit better most of the time.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 09 May 2004, 11:21

The draw was fair enough by the way I thought. It was pretty close and difficult to score at times. A draw is about right. I wanna see the Morales vs Pacman fight first though before the rematch, that could be amazing.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 May 2004, 11:31

Just been lookung at a few USA Forums, many felt Pacman won the fight.

I've also seen mentioned that Marquez got his nose broken in the first round.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 May 2004, 11:34

Marquez's boxing may not have been so appreciated by American fans as British fans. I thought Marquez won the fight, but Manny is the 'money'.
A draw keeps the status quo.

chado · Post by **chado** » 09 May 2004, 11:43

I noticed In-Jin Chi was ringside.

Spreadking · Post by **Spreadking** » 09 May 2004, 12:10

Prefer peace over war!

I had Pacman 116-110. Marquez was coming on in the 5th and 6th starting to bash Pac with right hands, then what happened ? Marquez became passive and lost 4 of the last 6 rounds, one even, because he didn't want to trade with Pac. I had picked Marquez to score an 8th round kayo and he was coming on to do it. For some reason he freezes and tries to do enough just not to lose.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 May 2004, 12:21

I had it 114-111 for JMM. I didn't actually sit and score it though and I've only watched it once yet, I just thought Pac only won 3 rounds and tallied accordingly.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 09 May 2004, 12:36

I had it scored 113-113. Marquez came back magnificently, but I can't see how he 'clearly won'. He had a big mountain to climb after the first 2 rounds, plus Manny had a bit of a second wind in 8,9 & 10. Draw seemed a fair result to me, even though the judges got there by a somewhat 'interesting' route.

Rematch should be great fun, but I think you have to pick Marquez if he stays out of early trouble. Manny looked clumbsy at times. Also, after the first, he rarely seemed to trouble Marquez with his power, even when he did manage to rip the straight lefts through the Marquez guard. By the end, Marquez even had that figured out, and I think he saw Manny's hooks and angled punches coming a mile away from the 2nd onwards.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 May 2004, 12:55

Frpm Fighnews-

Sunday, May 9 2004

"I just screwed up!" says Clements...

Judge Burt Clements, who controversially scored Manny Pacquiao's three knockdown round 10-7 instead of 10-6, told the Las Vegas Review Journal after the fight that his scoring of the round was an error. "Clearly, it wasn't non-awareness that there were three knockdowns," said Clements. "I just screwed up. I feel badly because I dropped the ball, plainly and simply. You can make a lot of arguments that it was a very close fight, but that's immaterial. The fact is, I dropped the ball." Clements stated he was under the impression the Nevada Commission did not like 10-6 rounds. Had he scored the round 10-6, Manny Pacquiao would today be the WBA/IBF featherweight champion.

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 09 May 2004, 13:08

i thought a draw was fair,just surprised me after the first round that manny did not knock him out.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 09 May 2004, 14:09

i thought marquez won.
i must admit i didn`t think he was going to beat the count during the third knockdown but from the third onwards won every round bar one imo.
maybe he wasn`t rocking the pac-man but was certainly scoring with sharp counters.
pac-man just lunged in swinging wildly and marquez dealt with him comfortably. he hardly landed a punch on marquez after the second.
skelton wants to get over to vegas, if they reward you for just rushing in and you dont even need to land he will be almost unbeatable on the cards.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 09 May 2004, 14:26

Did the BBC edit some footage out of the match? Around the end of round 9 I think it was I could have swore the bell had just gone for the end of the round the next thing the fighters are up on their feet and it's the start of the next round about 5 seconds later. Is this right or was my mind playing tricks on me?

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 09 May 2004, 14:28

I thought Marquez won the fight by a couple of points, As I said on the main boxing forum at BA Mannys bandwagon was being jumped on way to early, The exact same was done with Mayorga and he too was one dimensional.

HH

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 May 2004, 14:29

KOJOE90 wrote:Frpm Fighnews-

Sunday, May 9 2004

"I just screwed up!" says Clements...

Judge Burt Clements, who controversially scored Manny Pacquiao's three knockdown round 10-7 instead of 10-6, told the Las Vegas Review Journal after the fight that his scoring of the round was an error. "Clearly, it wasn't non-awareness that there were three knockdowns," said Clements. "I just screwed up. I feel badly because I dropped the ball, plainly and simply. You can make a lot of arguments that it was a very close fight, but that's immaterial. The fact is, I dropped the ball." Clements stated he was under the impression the Nevada Commission did not like 10-6 rounds. Had he scored the round 10-6, Manny Pacquiao would today be the WBA/IBF featherweight champion.

LAWSUIT TIME!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 09 May 2004, 16:02

What a brilliant fight. How did Marquez come back from that first round disaster?! I thought he won it on rounds, but a very harsh 10-6 is almost impossible to come back. An absolute battering and 10-7 is bad enough.

One of those fights where opinion seems split - other websites are saying Pac Man was robbed.
I don't think I saw them hold on once the whole fight. A real classic. The rematch is going to be huge.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 09 May 2004, 17:07

I don't think theres ever been a fight that people are sooo sure that the other guy won!

I've talked to people who say any1 who scored the fight for Marquez shouldn't be scoring fights, and on the other hand, I've heard people saying the whoever scored the fight for Pacman don't know how to score fights.

I never keep a scorecard when I'm watching fights. I just find it boring.

HBO had Pacman up by a few rounds, Sky had Marquez up by a few rounds... I think thats why most people disagree.

The fight went like I thought it would. Apart from the opening round! Marquez negated Pacs offence and Pac spent most of the fight trying to out-think him, which he cant do.

Great fight though. One that will certainly stay in my VCR for a while.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 09 May 2004, 19:08

Good points on the first round KD's, i also believed it to be 10-6 at time but it was so early in the morning i just went along with the commentators and took it as 10-7. Two points i want to quickly pick up on, thanks to KOJOE90 for posting the fight cards link, i was curious to see how they had scored round 11 hich for me was a clear Marquez round, low and behold the last judge gave it to Pacquiao! Corruption is rife :( And secondly, in response to Lefthookhappy19 about subjective commentary, i watched the BBC cast of Jones-Tarver and was outraged at the "robbery" but after viewing the HBO version my opinion changed and i accepted that Jones won. However that is not to say i prefer the American commentators, HBO in particular are too into stats and figures which annoys me and they seem to epitomise the American scoring mentality of Agression over boxing...hence there scorecards giving Pacquiao the victory.

Marquez-Pacquiao

Marquez-Pacquiao

Re: Marquez-Pacquiao

liberal islanders