i am outing myself: i never liked frazier's style

[man]

after five seconds his constant not-punch-directed movements with head and
arms drive my crazy. he spends so much energy moving for movings sake. from
all the alltime greats he is my least favorite to watch. i know he achieved a great
lot. but ... i prefer looking at his record to looking at himself.

so. i finally did it. my coming out.

[Robinson]

I like to watch Frazier. I enjoy his fights and 'style'.

I understand why you do not though.. no taboo there.

Their are quite a few Great fighters that I just can not
find myself enjoying when I watch them in action.

[man]

can you name one you dislike? i must say that i
do not like larry holmes, though i have no idea
why. just can't watch him.

[Robinson]

mate....holmes is one of my favourite fighters...so i may just go cry
now.

for me...

Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Gene Tunney
Klitschko's
too name a few

and i must confess i do not watch enough of the guys
in the lower weights....

[man]

mate....holmes is one of my favourite fighters...so i may just go cry
now.

for me...

Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Gene Tunney
Klitschko's
too name a few

and i must confess i do not watch enough of the guys
in the lower weights....

i like most of your list, but i sense why one could
dislike them. they have some playfulness, some
more brainy kind of boxing in common ... right?

[Seamus]

I disagree with the claim that Joe Frazier was an alltime great. He had one great win in 37 fights, and I fail to see how that makes him an alltime great.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I disagree with the claim that Joe Frazier was an alltime great. He had one great win in 37 fights, and I fail to see how that makes him an alltime great.

Is that the criterion for greatness, now? Only great victories count toward your place in history?

Kostya Tszyu didn't have a single, genuinely great victory during his career. What do you think of him?

[Seamus]

I'd go as far as to call Kosta Tszyu a very good fighter, but still a long way from great. If you want to put him at the same level as Joe Frazier, I'd say that's fair.

[The Great John L]

I disagree with the claim that Joe Frazier was an alltime great. He had one great win in 37 fights, and I fail to see how that makes him an alltime great.

Is that the criterion for greatness, now? Only great victories count toward your place in history?

Kostya Tszyu didn't have a single, genuinely great victory during his career. What do you think of him?

In fact, where was Joe Louis's one "great" win?

[Robinson]

mate....holmes is one of my favourite fighters...so i may just go cry
now.

for me...

Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Gene Tunney
Klitschko's
too name a few

and i must confess i do not watch enough of the guys
in the lower weights....

i like most of your list, but i sense why one could
dislike them. they have some playfulness, some
more brainy kind of boxing in common ... right?

Well for me Ali never is that guy I get excited over, like the Beetles
I do not deny his talents, but I do however feel I overdosed on him
early.

Jack Johnson, jab, grab, clinch smile...

Gene Tunney, I am jsut not a fan of that era. Perhaps it is a lack of
film for me to appreciate it.

Klitschko's I do not like the pure European clinical style. I would watch
them fight. Just not a big fan.

Brainy kind of boxing...well I am a big Mayweather, Toney, Holmes,
Jones Jr, Leonard fan...are they brainy ?

[Collins2000]

I disagree with the claim that Joe Frazier was an alltime great. He had one great win in 37 fights, and I fail to see how that makes him an alltime great.

Is that the criterion for greatness, now? Only great victories count toward your place in history?

Kostya Tszyu didn't have a single, genuinely great victory during his career. What do you think of him?

In fact, where was Joe Louis's one "great" win?

Or Chavez for that matter...

[Seamus]

Joe Frazier's best win was better than Joe Louis', but after that if you take there ten best wins, Louis probably has the next 9, not to mention his one less loss, more than twice as many wins and 25 title defenses.

Rubin Carter's best win is probably better than a few HOF'ers as well.

[Expug]

I am pretty sure that the guys Joe fought didnt like his style either.
What a motor that guy had.Bobbing weaving throwin that monster hook, a guy like that is HELL to fight.
I dont care if he was an all time great or not. If you plan on getting in the ring with a smokin Joe you better be a helluva fighter yourself.
Joe brought out the best in whoever he fought , or he chased them out of the ring.
He was a fighters fighter.

[Robinson]

I am pretty sure that the guys Joe fought didnt like his style either.
What a motor that guy had.Bobbing weaving throwin that monster hook, a guy like that is HELL to fight.
I dont care if he was an all time great or not. If you plan on getting in the ring with a smokin Joe you better be a helluva fighter yourself.
Joe brought out the best in whoever he fought , or he chased them out of the ring.
He was a fighters fighter.

The trouble is people over look the best years of Frazier when he was a real
nightmare...the late 1960s. Then he would give any many past or present one
very tough fight...Foreman included.

[Collins2000]

I am pretty sure that the guys Joe fought didnt like his style either.
What a motor that guy had.Bobbing weaving throwin that monster hook, a guy like that is HELL to fight.
I dont care if he was an all time great or not. If you plan on getting in the ring with a smokin Joe you better be a helluva fighter yourself.
Joe brought out the best in whoever he fought , or he chased them out of the ring.
He was a fighters fighter.

Good point, Expug. I too like a guy with a great engine. They are good on the footy (rubgy league) field too.

Frazier forced an often relectant Bugner to really fight as bennie pointed out in another thread.

[Collins2000]

I am pretty sure that the guys Joe fought didnt like his style either.
What a motor that guy had.Bobbing weaving throwin that monster hook, a guy like that is HELL to fight.
I dont care if he was an all time great or not. If you plan on getting in the ring with a smokin Joe you better be a helluva fighter yourself.
Joe brought out the best in whoever he fought , or he chased them out of the ring.
He was a fighters fighter.

The trouble is people over look the best years of Frazier when he was a real
nightmare...the late 1960s. Then he would give any many past or present one
very tough fight...Foreman included.

I'm not sold on that theory Kym. When they did first meet, Frazier wasn't much past his prime (if at all) and George knocked him around like a rag doll. I think George had his number. Just my opinion, though.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I didn't know you were a league fan, Collins. A very rare breed we are, indeed.

Do you follow the ESL or NRL?

[Collins2000]

I didn't know you were a league fan, Collins. A very rare breed we are, indeed.

Do you follow the ESL or NRL?

NRL, GI. Always prefer to watch the very best in action whatever the sport.

[The Great John L]

Joe Frazier's best win was better than Joe Louis', but after that if you take there ten best wins, Louis probably has the next 9, not to mention his one less loss, more than twice as many wins and 25 title defenses.

Rubin Carter's best win is probably better than a few HOF'ers as well.

I wasn't implying that Frazier was better than, or had more accomplishments than Louis. But if you think that beating Ellis, Bonavena, Mathis, Bugner and Quarry has lilttle meaning towards establishing a Frazier legacy, then I think you may be a bit ill informed.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Joe Frazier's best win was better than Joe Louis', but after that if you take there ten best wins, Louis probably has the next 9, not to mention his one less loss, more than twice as many wins and 25 title defenses.

Rubin Carter's best win is probably better than a few HOF'ers as well.

I wasn't implying that Frazier was better than, or had more accomplishments than Louis. But if you think that beating Ellis, Bonavena, Mathis, Bugner and Quarry has lilttle meaning towards establishing a Frazier legacy, then I think you may be a bit ill informed.

[Seamus]

Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Bugner were all GOOD fighters, but they were a ways from being outstanding. Buster Mathis was overrated.

I grew up in the Frazier era, and I've never once denied he had tremendous heart or that he was an all action exciting fighter. My point is simply that if a guy got the same number and same quality results at any other weight then Heavyweight, no one would be singing his praises.

Just 32 wins, one huge one, and then a big drop off in the caliber of his other wins. Look how high some guys rate Frazier on there alltime PFP list. Compare the others number of wins and names of the fighters they beat, and Frazier doesn't belong on the list.

[hhaehre]

Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Bugner were all GOOD fighters, but they were a ways from being outstanding. Buster Mathis was overrated.

I grew up in the Frazier era, and I've never once denied he had tremendous heart or that he was an all action exciting fighter. My point is simply that if a guy got the same number and same quality results at any other weight then Heavyweight, no one would be singing his praises.

Just 32 wins, one huge one, and then a big drop off in the caliber of his other wins. Look how high some guys rate Frazier on there alltime PFP list. Compare the others number of wins and names of the fighters they beat, and Frazier doesn't belong on the list.

You may hold Fraziers relatively short career against him but the quality of the opposition is beyond reproach imo. The first Ali fight is arguably the greatest hw fight in history all things considered.

[The Great John L]

Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Bugner were all GOOD fighters, but they were a ways from being outstanding. Buster Mathis was overrated.

I grew up in the Frazier era, and I've never once denied he had tremendous heart or that he was an all action exciting fighter. My point is simply that if a guy got the same number and same quality results at any other weight then Heavyweight, no one would be singing his praises.

Just 32 wins, one huge one, and then a big drop off in the caliber of his other wins. Look how high some guys rate Frazier on there alltime PFP list. Compare the others number of wins and names of the fighters they beat, and Frazier doesn't belong on the list.

Well, that one win was arguably the single best HW win in history, so of course there is a drop off. Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Bugner were all VERY good HW's; comparable and in some cases better than anyone that Louis beat. Yes, Frazier had a very short career, but to say that the names ion his resume were weak compared to other HW champs is silly. Start listing the guys that Dempsey, Liston and Marciano beat and tell me they were better than Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena and Bugner. You could argue the point, but even if you win the argument that some of Dempseys, Marciano's, Liston, etc, wins were better, they certainly weren't much better. And none of those guys beat Ali.

[Robinson]

I am pretty sure that the guys Joe fought didnt like his style either.
What a motor that guy had.Bobbing weaving throwin that monster hook, a guy like that is HELL to fight.
I dont care if he was an all time great or not. If you plan on getting in the ring with a smokin Joe you better be a helluva fighter yourself.
Joe brought out the best in whoever he fought , or he chased them out of the ring.
He was a fighters fighter.

The trouble is people over look the best years of Frazier when he was a real
nightmare...the late 1960s. Then he would give any many past or present one
very tough fight...Foreman included.

I'm not sold on that theory Kym. When they did first meet, Frazier wasn't much past his prime (if at all) and George knocked him around like a rag doll. I think George had his number. Just my opinion, though.

I agree and do think that Foreman for the most part did. HOWEVER I think Frazier became a little
more left hook happy after his KO of Ellis and near KO of Ali. This really changed his style a bit..

Perhaps his 60s form would have fared better against Foreman. I do however feel if they both
met as they were in 1969 as they were then Frazier would have won.

[Collins2000]

I agree and do think that Foreman for the most part did. HOWEVER I think Frazier became a little
more left hook happy after his KO of Ellis and near KO of Ali. This really changed his style a bit..

Perhaps his 60s form would have fared better against Foreman. I do however feel if they both
met as they were in 1969 as they were then Frazier would have won.

Near KO of Ali?

When did that happen, Kym?