Long count or not?

[Old bones Ian]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_BD5rCPcXJ0

for me Bute was up on his feet around 8, so i don't see why its being called a long count

[Poncey]

It wasn't a long count, but stopping the count still annoys me.

As Steve Farhood pointed out, the fight should've been stopped 30 seconds beforehand. Had it not been on home territory and/or Bute been beaten previously it would've been stopped.

[wouter]

As Steve Farhood pointed out, the fight should've been stopped 30 seconds beforehand.

That's a ridiculous statement as Bute managed to survive and win the fight. it reminds me of Montell Griffin complaining that his opponent in the Olympics should have been stopped on cuts.

[rhino222]

it was an awfully long count, the timekeeper should be counting and the ref latches onto the number the time keeper is at once the fuss has died down. i was already at about 12 when the ref started on 6...

it was awful, count it yourself from when he is knocked down.......i challenge you to say its not a long count.

[banjo]

If this fight had been in a British ring I guarantee that it would have been stopped before Bute even hit the deck, he was actually running away from Andrade at one point.

And it's alright people saying he survived and made it to the final bell but what if he collapsed or dropped dead in the changing room at the end of the fight? Bute couldn't defend himself and wasn't throwing back so it should have been stopped.

[wouter]

And it's alright people saying he survived and made it to the final bell but what if he collapsed or dropped dead in the changing room at the end of the fight?

The point is that he didn't.

[banjo]

And it's alright people saying he survived and made it to the final bell but what if he collapsed or dropped dead in the changing room at the end of the fight?

The point is that he didn't.

Of course but it's alright in hindsight isn't it?

[Poncey]

Agreed. I'm baffled why anyone thinks an earlier stoppage wasn't necessary. Based on the assumption that they're not from Britain perhaps refs are more lenient there.

As mentioned, if it was Britain and Terry O'Connor wasn't reffing, it would've been stopped earlier.

[Asterix]

I also agree with Banjo. I think it's important that they have a rematch to hopefully give a conclusive result.

[wouter]

Agreed. I'm baffled why anyone thinks an earlier stoppage wasn't necessary. Based on the assumption that they're not from Britain perhaps refs are more lenient there.

As mentioned, if it was Britain and Terry O'Connor wasn't reffing, it would've been stopped earlier.

I'm equally baffled how you can defend a stoppage when you can tell - with 100% certainty - that the fighter you're supposed to protect would still be able to win the fight.

[stujones]

Its a difficult one to guess whether a rematch was necessary. I mean, no one thought Tyson was worthy of a rematch with the Douglas count.

Having said that I hate to see a fighter shafted, but I aint convinced Andrade was. Bute did survive and did dominate for 33+ minutes. Did anyone think Thaxton was rematch worthy vs Hatton cause that fight should have been stopped? I like to see rematches for fights stopped to soon, but not so much for fights that should have been stopped but wasn't.

[Dioufy]

Bute should've been stopped in my opinion. Regardless of if it was the last ten seconds or in the first round round. Bute wasn't able to continue. Just look at it when he gets up. Now can anyone tell me the difference between Bute's condition and Enzo Macc's against Haye (and I can't remember anyone complaining about that stoppage)? I don't wanna hear that that was in the second round because to me that's irrelevant. If a fighter is done then he is done, and if that's in the the twelve permitted rounds then he loses in my opinion. Just like Taylor was done against Chavez. And the referee going over to Andrade during the count was a joke because he wasn't even too far out of the corner - but Bute should've been stopped when he tried to get up because it was obvious he was done.

Rematch is definitely necessary, and on neutral ground.

[Scrap]

So Bute was the Home Fighter.

[Dioufy]

He may be Romanian-born but does class himself as Canadian too (hence all his fights there).

[Poncey]

Agreed. I'm baffled why anyone thinks an earlier stoppage wasn't necessary. Based on the assumption that they're not from Britain perhaps refs are more lenient there.

As mentioned, if it was Britain and Terry O'Connor wasn't reffing, it would've been stopped earlier.

I'm equally baffled how you can defend a stoppage when you can tell - with 100% certainty - that the fighter you're supposed to protect would still be able to win the fight.

I'm failing to see your argument? What if Bute had collapsed into a coma because he's failing to protect Himself. As banjo said, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Is it better to wait until we have a Benny Paret incident and then say "Oh yeah, ref should've stopped it". No. Stop the fight and let Him fight another day and even a rematch.

Bute is failing to protect Himself. Perhaps they're more lenient in the Holland but I like to think here it should've been stopped (Prescott v Khan omitted of course). I counted 21 unanswered punches from Andrade, but the youtube footage is grainy.

[Scrap]

Yes I could see that I think the Ref could too.

[wouter]

Bute should've been stopped in my opinion. Regardless of if it was the last ten seconds or in the first round round. Bute wasn't able to continue.

This makes me want to enter a thousand rolling-eyeball-smilies.

[Dioufy]

Then do it then.

Don't try to judge me because I care about a fighter's health. Bute couldn't even defend himself prior to the knockdown, and Andrade landed so many unanswered punches it was unreal. The fight could've been stopped when Andrade landed that right hand before the knockdown that rolled Bute's head back - it was quite disturbing to watch. But hey, let's risk the man's health and career over a boxing fight because that makes sense. Therefore, I categorically disagree with what you have said about this fight.

So, let's move on.

[stujones]

Bute should've been stopped in my opinion. Regardless of if it was the last ten seconds or in the first round round. Bute wasn't able to continue. Just look at it when he gets up. Now can anyone tell me the difference between Bute's condition and Enzo Macc's against Haye (and I can't remember anyone complaining about that stoppage)? I don't wanna hear that that was in the second round because to me that's irrelevant. If a fighter is done then he is done, and if that's in the the twelve permitted rounds then he loses in my opinion. Just like Taylor was done against Chavez. And the referee going over to Andrade during the count was a joke because he wasn't even too far out of the corner - but Bute should've been stopped when he tried to get up because it was obvious he was done.

Rematch is definitely necessary, and on neutral ground.

Bute was knackered, exhausted. Enzo couldn't control his legs. Bute was more in his senses than Enzo.

Its not relevant had it occured with say 30 seconds to go - then the ref could have and maybe should stopped it. However, I think the bell had gone makes it very relevant as to why the ref shouldn't have stopped it - ref job is to prevent uneccesary punishment. Andrade couldn't put any more punishement cause the fight was over. Likewise, had Maccrinelli been in that state as the bell for the end of round 2 had rung, then there would have been an outcry - cause people would have said "give him the break to see if he can recover".

Had the ref waved it off after Bute got up - then there would have been an outcry. There is a reason why Taylor vs Chavez 1 is still talked about. The major saving grace for Steel is that he could argue that he wasn't exactly sure how long left - there was no 10 second warning in those days.

[Dioufy]

I meant it should've been stopped when Bute took that last right-hand.

And there was a warning for Steel - that red light directly behind him, but I think, that was a perfect stoppage as well.

[Scrap]

Dioufy, I make you Right, Something Bad couldve happened there.

[banjo]

Regarding Chavez-Taylor 1, Steele asked Taylor if he was ok to continue and Taylor didn't reply which is why he stopped it.

[Scrap]

It reminds me being the Home Fighter can be an advantage, thinking back a few weeks to Mosley.

[wouter]

Then do it then.

Don't try to judge me because I care about a fighter's health. Bute couldn't even defend himself prior to the knockdown, and Andrade landed so many unanswered punches it was unreal. The fight could've been stopped when Andrade landed that right hand before the knockdown that rolled Bute's head back - it was quite disturbing to watch. But hey, let's risk the man's health and career over a boxing fight because that makes sense. Therefore, I categorically disagree with what you have said about this fight.

So, let's move on.

I'm not judging you at all. I don't think a stoppage would have been out of place, but in hindsight it would have been premature since Bute managed to last the round, win the fight and suffer no damage. Since we're all talking about it in hindsight, I find it strange that Bute is deemed unable to continue, when in fact he did.

[Dioufy]

I also don't think recovering is holding onto the ropes for dear life. I think there should be some rule where fighter's, after being knocked down, have to stand up without the aid of holding onto something - to me, that's just dangerous because you can never tell how bad someone is hurt when there balance is completely their because they're holding onto the ropes. It creates a false sense of security for the referee and could well be dangerous for fighter's in future fights.

My opinion, so don't rape me for it.