Calzaghe deserves his due

[Gray-Fox]

I am no major fan of Joe Calzaghe's style of boxing, but as a fellow boxer, I find the treatment of BRITAIN'S most successful boxer shocking. The man is UNBEATEN with a record only rivalled by Floyd Mayweather Jr's. I'm not saying he's beaten great fighters but they haven't been stinkers on the level of some of those that RJJR fought (Ricky Frazier anyone?). I wonder sometimes, if he was English or American, would he be treated the same? I highly doubt it.

The man has given his life to the sport and he was one of our most successful domestic amateurs, yet he STILL doesn't get the props he deserves. No wonder he wants out of the sport, and is bitter about people's treatment of him.

[observer1]

I am no major fan of Joe Calzaghe's style of boxing, but as a fellow boxer, I find the treatment of BRITAIN'S most successful boxer shocking. The man is UNBEATEN with a record only rivalled by Floyd Mayweather Jr's. I'm not saying he's beaten great fighters but they haven't been stinkers on the level of some of those that RJJR fought (Ricky Frazier anyone?). I wonder sometimes, if he was English or American, would he be treated the same? I highly doubt it.

The man has given his life to the sport and he was one of our most successful domestic amateurs, yet he STILL doesn't get the props he deserves. No wonder he wants out of the sport, and is bitter about people's treatment of him.

lol

[Deserter]

I am no major fan of Joe Calzaghe's style of boxing, but as a fellow boxer, I find the treatment of BRITAIN'S most successful boxer shocking. The man is UNBEATEN with a record only rivalled by Floyd Mayweather Jr's. I'm not saying he's beaten great fighters but they haven't been stinkers on the level of some of those that RJJR fought (Ricky Frazier anyone?). I wonder sometimes, if he was English or American, would he be treated the same? I highly doubt it.

The man has given his life to the sport and he was one of our most successful domestic amateurs, yet he STILL doesn't get the props he deserves. No wonder he wants out of the sport, and is bitter about people's treatment of him.

Good post. I agree completely.

[stujones]

My criticisms are based primarily on the over-rating the fans in Wales give him. I think considering Joe as the third or fourth greatest Britain of all time is worthy and justifiable praise which is where I place him. I think a geniune case for him to be ranked #2 could also be made, but no way number 1.

However, its not just that with the fans I talk to in Wales - its not only this elevated status on his all time standing, but his comparisons with his contemporaries. Not only is he mentioned in the same category as Jones Jnr, Lewis, Floyd Mayweather Jnr etc - he is considered by many fans in Wales to be far and away the number #1. The only fighter in his league, according to lots of people in Wales, is Floyd Mayweather Jnr. Believe it or not, people I was talking to in Wales PRIOR to the Calzaghe fight were calling Hopkins and overated "BUM" who had nothing to beat Joe with. When "a prime" Hopkins did well against Joe, they retracted a bit by saying he was okay winning two rounds against a aging Joe before feeling the power, and running away and losing the other 10 rounds! Lacy DID get outclassed, but apparently so did Kessler and Hopkins!

His unbeaten record and his proffesional have to be respected, and I do. Although, give me a fighter who tried and failed - like Hatton did, over a fighter who was more worried about his unbeaten record.

Jones had his critics - remember the Roycott..... but their records are uncomparible. Jones fought 3 prime sure fire hall of famers and 2 past it ones (actually we are condeming Naz' omition, what about the body snatcher). Beating the best Middleweight and Super Middleweight, then unified (big 3) the Light Heavyweight devision - admittingly avoiding the most dangerous challenge. Then became what was it the 2nd man ever to win titles from Middleweight to Heavyweight and then was he the only guy to go from winning the Heavyweight title to winning the Light Heavyweight title? Yes, he fought his fair share of bums - but Richard Frazier was like Marciano compared to Pudwill!

Jones deserved some criticisms, but that is still the record of an all time great, well not just an all time great - but someone who deserves to be mentioned alongside the likes of Ray Robinson, Ali etc. But honestly, I am arguing with people who believe that if the November the 8th fight got cancelled - Joe should be ranked above him. And believe it or not - the weight loss issue is a ready made excuse and because Jones was reliant on his reflexes he was one dimensional.

Joe gets his criticisms, but he gets his fair share of plaudits - and personally, I think they even themselves out. I think calling Joe the 3rd/4th greatest Britsh fighter shows my respect for the man - but personally, as I said - I prefer fighters who have fought more meaningful challenges than what Joe has fought and for that reason - I would have him quite low down if I was to name the top ten fighters from the last 15 years - like possibly not on the list. But I don't think that is a disservice - I am such a fan of the Roy Jones generation I think they could have more than held their own in any era. I geniunally think we have been blessed.

[observer1]

My criticisms are based primarily on the over-rating the fans in Wales give him. I think considering Joe as the third or fourth greatest Britain of all time is worthy and justifiable praise which is where I place him. I think a geniune case for him to be ranked #2 could also be made, but no way number 1.

However, its not just that with the fans I talk to in Wales - its not only this elevated status on his all time standing, but his comparisons with his contemporaries. Not only is he mentioned in the same category as Jones Jnr, Lewis, Floyd Mayweather Jnr etc - he is considered by many fans in Wales to be far and away the number #1. The only fighter in his league, according to lots of people in Wales, is Floyd Mayweather Jnr. Believe it or not, people I was talking to in Wales PRIOR to the Calzaghe fight were calling Hopkins and overated "BUM" who had nothing to beat Joe with. When "a prime" Hopkins did well against Joe, they retracted a bit by saying he was okay winning two rounds against a aging Joe before feeling the power, and running away and losing the other 10 rounds! Lacy DID get outclassed, but apparently so did Kessler and Hopkins!

His unbeaten record and his proffesional have to be respected, and I do. Although, give me a fighter who tried and failed - like Hatton did, over a fighter who was more worried about his unbeaten record.

Jones had his critics - remember the Roycott..... but their records are uncomparible. Jones fought 3 prime sure fire hall of famers and 2 past it ones (actually we are condeming Naz' omition, what about the body snatcher). Beating the best Middleweight and Super Middleweight, then unified (big 3) the Light Heavyweight devision - admittingly avoiding the most dangerous challenge. Then became what was it the 2nd man ever to win titles from Middleweight to Heavyweight and then was he the only guy to go from winning the Heavyweight title to winning the Light Heavyweight title? Yes, he fought his fair share of bums - but Richard Frazier was like Marciano compared to Pudwill!

Jones deserved some criticisms, but that is still the record of an all time great, well not just an all time great - but someone who deserves to be mentioned alongside the likes of Ray Robinson, Ali etc. But honestly, I am arguing with people who believe that if the November the 8th fight got cancelled - Joe should be ranked above him. And believe it or not - the weight loss issue is a ready made excuse and because Jones was reliant on his reflexes he was one dimensional.

Joe gets his criticisms, but he gets his fair share of plaudits - and personally, I think they even themselves out. I think calling Joe the 3rd/4th greatest Britsh fighter shows my respect for the man - but personally, as I said - I prefer fighters who have fought more meaningful challenges than what Joe has fought and for that reason - I would have him quite low down if I was to name the top ten fighters from the last 15 years - like possibly not on the list. But I don't think that is a disservice - I am such a fan of the Roy Jones generation I think they could have more than held their own in any era. I geniunally think we have been blessed.

Exactley.

Nobody is detracting anything from Joe. but facts are facts, opinions do not change that.

Calzaghe's record has question marks.

A conterversial SD against an aged 43 year old Hopkins (Who now desperate Calzaghe fans say was in his prime ) and now facing a 39 way way passed it Roy Jones, ESPECIALLY after he said there was no point fighting Jones just goes to show what Joe is after.

He is after hyped opponents and passed it opponenets.

Undefeated he may be, but Boxing history does not remember who Boxer lost to, instead who boxers beat.

[Gray-Fox]

My criticisms are based primarily on the over-rating the fans in Wales give him. I think considering Joe as the third or fourth greatest Britain of all time is worthy and justifiable praise which is where I place him. I think a geniune case for him to be ranked #2 could also be made, but no way number 1.

However, its not just that with the fans I talk to in Wales - its not only this elevated status on his all time standing, but his comparisons with his contemporaries. Not only is he mentioned in the same category as Jones Jnr, Lewis, Floyd Mayweather Jnr etc - he is considered by many fans in Wales to be far and away the number #1. The only fighter in his league, according to lots of people in Wales, is Floyd Mayweather Jnr. Believe it or not, people I was talking to in Wales PRIOR to the Calzaghe fight were calling Hopkins and overated "BUM" who had nothing to beat Joe with. When "a prime" Hopkins did well against Joe, they retracted a bit by saying he was okay winning two rounds against a aging Joe before feeling the power, and running away and losing the other 10 rounds! Lacy DID get outclassed, but apparently so did Kessler and Hopkins!

His unbeaten record and his proffesional have to be respected, and I do. Although, give me a fighter who tried and failed - like Hatton did, over a fighter who was more worried about his unbeaten record.

Jones had his critics - remember the Roycott..... but their records are uncomparible. Jones fought 3 prime sure fire hall of famers and 2 past it ones (actually we are condeming Naz' omition, what about the body snatcher). Beating the best Middleweight and Super Middleweight, then unified (big 3) the Light Heavyweight devision - admittingly avoiding the most dangerous challenge. Then became what was it the 2nd man ever to win titles from Middleweight to Heavyweight and then was he the only guy to go from winning the Heavyweight title to winning the Light Heavyweight title? Yes, he fought his fair share of bums - but Richard Frazier was like Marciano compared to Pudwill!

Jones deserved some criticisms, but that is still the record of an all time great, well not just an all time great - but someone who deserves to be mentioned alongside the likes of Ray Robinson, Ali etc. But honestly, I am arguing with people who believe that if the November the 8th fight got cancelled - Joe should be ranked above him. And believe it or not - the weight loss issue is a ready made excuse and because Jones was reliant on his reflexes he was one dimensional.

Joe gets his criticisms, but he gets his fair share of plaudits - and personally, I think they even themselves out. I think calling Joe the 3rd/4th greatest Britsh fighter shows my respect for the man - but personally, as I said - I prefer fighters who have fought more meaningful challenges than what Joe has fought and for that reason - I would have him quite low down if I was to name the top ten fighters from the last 15 years - like possibly not on the list. But I don't think that is a disservice - I am such a fan of the Roy Jones generation I think they could have more than held their own in any era. I geniunally think we have been blessed.

I don't put a prime Calzaghe in the same league as a prime Jones, simply for the way that Jones DOMINATED B and C class fighters. That is something Calzaghe has rarely done. However, you say Jones fought hall of famers, which he did, but he didn't fight them all when they were at their EVIDENT best. He could have made those fights happen if he wanted to (and I don't blame him for not wanting to).

Jones deserved some criticisms, but that is still the record of an all time great, well not just an all time great - but someone who deserves to be mentioned alongside the likes of Ray Robinson, Ali etc. But honestly, I am arguing with people who believe that if the November the 8th fight got cancelled - Joe should be ranked above him. And believe it or not - the weight loss issue is a ready made excuse and because Jones was reliant on his reflexes he was one dimensional.

Doesn't this paragraph contradict itself somewhat? Jones is an ATG alongside Robinson one minute, but a one dimensional fighter the next? I don't buy that he was one-dimensional either. He used speed, skills, intelligence and wonderful lateral movement to win fights.

[Spud]

Joe Calzaghe is perhaps the fighter I have criticised most.

When I start to think whether I was fair with those criticisms, like everyone yeah okay perhaps I got a bit strong.

But - with Joe Calzaghe and I have stated this on more than one occasion I have to think "what could have been" - Calzaghe has to be one of Mr Warren's biggest success stories - making a lot of money for himself and the fighter without taking any real risks until in my opinion the Kessler fight - now that fight for me was a real fight against what I would call genuine world class opposition. The types of fight Calzaghe had with Kessler could have happened a lot sooner and a lot more often.

Before anyone says - yep its the job of the promoter and even the boxer to make as much money as possible with the minimum risk and that is exactly my opinion what has happened with the team of Warren and Calzaghe - good luck to them. But, with that being the case they mustn't go crying to everyone they have faced heavy criticisms along the way due to the fans dis-satisfaction that Calzaghe should have faced better quality opposition - in my view Calzaghe could have been an absolute legend - in my view he is not and that from purely a boxing perspective is such a waste - mainly because he thought in my view about making money rather than finding that fine line of making the dosh as well as cementing his place in boxing history as one of the finest boxers ever to live.

Calzaghe in my view had it all - but although he did deliver top quality world class performances - it was not often enough - in addition I will repeat he thought of money first.

[Peter Hick]

Calzaghe is a very, very good boxer but he hasn't made the most of his talents.

He should have fought in America earlier in his career and taking 9 years to unify his division is not good enough.

This may not be entirely his fault but he has to take some of the blame.

[banjo]

As Khaosai-Galaxy would say, no boxer in the history of the sport has always fought the best opponents available.

Look at Mayweather for example, he was in a division filled with dangerous welterweights like Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Shane Mosley yet he chose to defend his title against Ricky Hatton. But is Hatton the best out of them opponents? Of course he isn't.

People were demanding that Calzaghe fought Lacy and Kessler, he did and beat them and now they're overhyped(I agree Lacy was overhyped but Kessler? )

As some have said he isn't great which I agree with but he is a damn good fighter who deserves some respect.

P.S. Who you gonna slag off when he's retired?

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

As Khaosai-Galaxy would say, no boxer in the history of the sport has always fought the best opponents available.

Look at Mayweather for example, he was in a division filled with dangerous welterweights like Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Shane Mosley yet he chose to defend his title against Ricky Hatton. But is Hatton the best out of them opponents? Of course he isn't.

People were demanding that Calzaghe fought Lacy and Kessler, he did and beat them and now they're overhyped(I agree Lacy was overhyped but Kessler? )

As some have said he isn't great which I agree with but he is a damn good fighter who deserves some respect.

P.S. Who you gonna slag off when he's retired?

Well, quite

[Poncey]

However you look at it, Mayweather didn't fight a Pudwill or Thornberry in a world title fight. You just wonder what might've been had he fought better quality opposition between 2002 and 2005.

Better late than never.

[Brian Moore]

I actually think Calzaghe has now received the credit he deserves after beating Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler. He was recognised as the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year, is adored by fans across the UK, not just in Wales and has also finally received begrudging acknowledgement of his talent by sceptical American scribes. In addition to that Joe will retire as a very wealthy man. What else does he want?

[Autobarn]

A very good talent with an excellent engine that beat the best at his weight after years of feeding from the bottom. Who, probably because of his tendency to leave his chin open when he punches, was likely kept away from good counter punching opponents. Note criticisms of Calzaghe by Warren now, i.e. Joe doesn't like fighters who don't come right to him. (Definitely supported by the Hopkins fight.) A major British fighter, but a reluctant hero and often infuriating. Yes, he should get credit for unifying super middle, etc.

His career might have been more satisfying if he's beaten another younger fighter in the p4p top 10. I mean, if he'd managed to get Taylor (had Taylor, say, stopped Pavlik in their 1st fight...Taylor was weight weakened, and could have done with a lucrative super middle title shot). Or Pavlik (before Pavlik was humpty dumptied by B-Hop).

It is amazing, from a 2004 POV, that Joe is going into another big(ish) fight. However, he never pushed to get that p4p #1 spot after the retirement of Mayweather. This, I think, is the disappointing thing.

[Peter Hick]

Look at Mayweather for example, he was in a division filled with dangerous welterweights like Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Shane Mosley yet he chose to defend his title against Ricky Hatton. But is Hatton the best out of them opponents? Of course he isn't.

And did Mayweather get stick for not fighting Cotto and Margarito?

Of course he did!

[Carbo]

Calzaghe's recent wins look better all the time. Kessler will, mark my words, dominate 168, and Calzaghe would've stopped him if not for a fastidious refereeing call; Hopkins's win over Pavlik puts Joe's win over Hopkins in its proper perspective.

Calzaghe certainly should have been more aggressive in his matchmaking, and could have conceivably ended up as a real all time great, which, as things stand, he is not.

However, those slag the guy off as if he walked to the ring wearing a paper wrap with “dolphin friendly” written on it and generally try to denigrate his career by picking wholes in his CV and employing arguments one might hear from a Sun reading lout in Benidorm need to ask themselves the question: what would constitute a great fighter?

After they've answered that question, the need to buzz saw off their penises and stick them in their mouths so they can never again pollute the world of boxing opinion with their idiotic views.

[Peter Hick]

And those people on here who resort to petty insults just because others disagree with them need to grow up!

[Carbo]

edit

[Evander]

You Brit's either constantly down your top guns when they are at the top or shoot them down when they are on the way up.
You just happen to have the Pound 4 Pound best fighter in the world in you midst.

Just because the English,Scots and Welsh fans have a beef with one another shouldn't get in the way of Joe Calzaghe's achievements.

You don't go 45-0 in 15 years by luck.
I can't stand this Pacquiao is number 1 bull.
You don't hold Pacquiao to the same standards as Calzaghe.
Some of you hold Calzaghe's relationship with his promoter against him.
Judge Calzaghe on his record like you would Pacquiao.

Judge Pacquiao's early career like you would Calzaghe's.
Judge Calzaghe's current form like you would Pacquiao's.

Some of you never seem satisfied.
What do you want ?

When we from North America were asking for a gun you said Lacy,we said fine.
Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We in North America asked for better.
You said Kessler.
We agreed and again Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We asked for a smart well adjusted veteran.
Enter Bernard Hopkins.
Calzaghe won again.

What the hell do you want ?
You have an absolutely great fighter in Calzaghe who just beat a fighter who dominated one of the hottest American prospects[Hopkins v Pavlik].

Get over it fella's and show some respect.
Joe Calzaghe is the Pound for Pound best fighter in the world today,why not enjoy it rather than complain .
Hell aren't you allways striving to become the best,now you have one of them and are not happy about it.

[Carbo]

You don't go 45-0 in 15 years by luck.
I can't stand this Pacquiao is number 1 bull.
You don't hold Pacquiao to the same standards as Calzaghe.
Some of you hold Calzaghe's relationship with his promoter against him.
Judge Calzaghe on his record like you would Pacquiao.

Judge Pacquiao's early career like you would Calzaghe's.
Judge Calzaghe's current form like you would Pacquiao's.

Some of you never seem satisfied.
What do you want ?

When we from North America were asking for a gun you said Lacy,we said fine.
Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We in North America asked for better.
You said Kessler.
We agreed and again Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We asked for a smart well adjusted veteran.
Enter Bernard Hopkins.
Calzaghe won again.

What the hell do you want ?
You have an absolutely great fighter in Calzaghe who just beat a fighter who dominated one of the hottest American prospects[Hopkins v Pavlik].

Get over it fella's and show some respect.
Joe Calzaghe is the Pound for Pound best fighter in the world today,why not enjoy it rather than complain .
Hell aren't you allways striving to become the best,now you have one of them and are not happy about it.

Not many rhymes, but it's a lovely poem.

[Evander]

You don't go 45-0 in 15 years by luck.
I can't stand this Pacquiao is number 1 bull.
You don't hold Pacquiao to the same standards as Calzaghe.
Some of you hold Calzaghe's relationship with his promoter against him.
Judge Calzaghe on his record like you would Pacquiao.

Judge Pacquiao's early career like you would Calzaghe's.
Judge Calzaghe's current form like you would Pacquiao's.

Some of you never seem satisfied.
What do you want ?

When we from North America were asking for a gun you said Lacy,we said fine.
Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We in North America asked for better.
You said Kessler.
We agreed and again Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We asked for a smart well adjusted veteran.
Enter Bernard Hopkins.
Calzaghe won again.

What the hell do you want ?
You have an absolutely great fighter in Calzaghe who just beat a fighter who dominated one of the hottest American prospects[Hopkins v Pavlik].

Get over it fella's and show some respect.
Joe Calzaghe is the Pound for Pound best fighter in the world today,why not enjoy it rather than complain .
Hell aren't you allways striving to become the best,now you have one of them and are not happy about it.

Not many rhymes, but it was a lovely poem.

It's not a poem.

Shake the we love a loser anthem,Bruno is the past.

Calzaghe is today and just happens to be the best,that's just the way it is Carbo.

Get used to being a winner,that's what Joe Calzaghe is.

The I love a loser defeatist attitude is yesterdays news, the Brits can haul some ass and have been for a long time.
But you are your own worst critics.

There does come a time when you are on top ... and this is it.
You have the top gun in boxing like it or not.
I never thought I would see the day when your own fans refuse a crown you are deserving of.

Be proud it's yours Carbo.

[Asterix]

I am no major fan of Joe Calzaghe's style of boxing, but as a fellow boxer, I find the treatment of BRITAIN'S most successful boxer shocking. The man is UNBEATEN with a record only rivalled by Floyd Mayweather Jr's. I'm not saying he's beaten great fighters but they haven't been stinkers on the level of some of those that RJJR fought (Ricky Frazier anyone?). I wonder sometimes, if he was English or American, would he be treated the same? I highly doubt it.

The man has given his life to the sport and he was one of our most successful domestic amateurs, yet he STILL doesn't get the props he deserves. No wonder he wants out of the sport, and is bitter about people's treatment of him.

Good post. I agree completely.

[Carbo]

You don't go 45-0 in 15 years by luck.
I can't stand this Pacquiao is number 1 bull.
You don't hold Pacquiao to the same standards as Calzaghe.
Some of you hold Calzaghe's relationship with his promoter against him.
Judge Calzaghe on his record like you would Pacquiao.

Judge Pacquiao's early career like you would Calzaghe's.
Judge Calzaghe's current form like you would Pacquiao's.

Some of you never seem satisfied.
What do you want ?

When we from North America were asking for a gun you said Lacy,we said fine.
Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We in North America asked for better.
You said Kessler.
We agreed and again Calzaghe kicked his ass.

We asked for a smart well adjusted veteran.
Enter Bernard Hopkins.
Calzaghe won again.

What the hell do you want ?
You have an absolutely great fighter in Calzaghe who just beat a fighter who dominated one of the hottest American prospects[Hopkins v Pavlik].

Get over it fella's and show some respect.
Joe Calzaghe is the Pound for Pound best fighter in the world today,why not enjoy it rather than complain .
Hell aren't you allways striving to become the best,now you have one of them and are not happy about it.

Not many rhymes, but it was a lovely poem.

It's not a poem.

Shake the we love a loser anthem,Bruno is the past.

Calzaghe is today and just happens to be the best,that's just the way it is Carbo.

Get used to being a winner,that's what Joe Calzaghe is.

The I love a loser defeatist attitude is yesterdays news, the Brits can haul some ass and have been for a long time.
But you are your own worst critics.

There does come a time when you are on top ... and this is it.
You have the top gun in boxing like it or not.
I never thought I would see the day when your own fans refuse a crown you are deserving of.

Be proud it's yours Carbo.

I know it's not a poem, ya big ol' dufus.

I do defend Cazlaghe. Hence my above post.

Anyway, here’s a poem for you.

Dear Evander,
I would never pander,
To the slander,
Of a commander,
Not lesser than Alexander
And I show great anger
To the blander,
Arguments lacking in candour,
That say Calzaghe isn’t grander,
Than the rest of the field.

(I'm bored)

[Evander]

Let's see how Jones deals with Calzaghe and De La Hoya deals with Pacquiao.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[DavidPayne]

Calzaghe has been a terrific fighter. He could have been more.

Beyer, Ottke, Lucas, Reid II, Mundine, Jones Jnr., Johnson, Woods, Froch, Green, Catley, Echols, Eastman

were all more interesting, worthy, lucrative or exciting than

Pudwill, Jimenez, Veit II, Thornbury, Salem, Manfredo, Mjkchertyn (Sp)

in fact that list is worse and less edifying than

Haussler, Vanderpool, Sanavia,

and I haven't mentioned...

Tarver, Dawson, Pavlik, Abraham,

Calzaghe has done much but he hasn't played in the premier league or champions league often enough.

[Evander]

De La Hoya is only a 8-9 round all out fighter these days,that's why Pacquiao is a +170 on the book betting underdog in the actual bout. ;;-)
Forbes v De La Hoya showed that.

De La Hoya is only fighting on because Las Vegas is getting burned and they figure they can make a Margarito v De La Hoya later,thus cashing in.
De La Hoya's legacy could be burned,but it will be at Oscar's expense ... but what does he care at that point.