Britains only World Champion???????

[Captain Hook]

Yes we know that but to allude that Cook is our only champ when he's beaten Arthur is a bit cheeky...

Onyl reason Calzaghe and Haye don't have belts is because of choice, not because they were beaten.

[Wax On]

If this Brian Moore is just a casual boxing fan who happens to love allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly I'll platt sh1t!!

From nearly every post he's made I've thought, he's either on the SN payroll or works for a PR firm on their behalf.

Either that or he is a totally deluded imbecile who has a room at home dedicated to FW posters and effigies (Alan Partridge psycho fan style)

I'm presenting a balanced argument, something which you seem incapable of understanding. Not everything that is wrong with British Boxing is down to Warren. Other promoters have staged "minor" world championship fights and conned the paying public. The Board of Control should have put a stop to this but didn't.

As for classing me as being on Warren's payroll your points are made without any foundation. I've not been impressed with the quality of Warren's cards since he returned to SKY, I agree completely with the above poster who slated Warren for his poor communications regarding the switching of Brook-McIntyre from Birmingham to Scotland, and I detest how the likes of Brook and Cleverly have left their long-time trainers in order to progress their careers after what appears like they have been strongly persuaded to do so. I also find it disconcerting as to how Bradley Pryce and Enzo Maccarinelli haven't fought since the parting of ways between Joe Calzaghe and Warren.

I hope the above highlights to you and a minority of others how wide of the mark you are being.

Well Brian if that's the case then I apologise, but with you being a resonably new poster and every other comment seeming to be a dig at David Haye, Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe and the rest defending FW I was beginning to wander if you were the man himself now he's got so few decent boxers left in his stable and has plenty of time on his side.

Can I ask why you seem to be so crtical of Britain's three most successful boxers in recent times?? I find it strange that them promoting themselves would be so offensive to you and that you consider someone like Calzaghe greedy for choosing to self promote potentially his last ever fight.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Oh god, here we go again... The whinging old women brigade are back in force


Ok guys, Fwank is a boxing promoter his job, yeah, is to promote boxing.....

He isnt a journalist, he isnt a politician, he isnt a Priest or a Monk, he is a boxing promoter


He does this by using his article in the papers to further his own ends and promote his boxing shows


You morons seem to hold this against Fwank, for some god knows reason

Have you seen boxing promoter's Fwank Warren's latest trick????? he is actually promoting his own boxing shows!!!! What will this guy think of next???


LOLZZZZZZZ

grow up

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

This thread is right up there with the one where you lot got OUTRAGED at the fact that David Haye and his new promotional company were actually, and get this, trying to make money out of boxing.....



You will be telling me WWF is fixed next

[banjo]

This thread is right up there with the one where you lot got OUTRAGED at the fact that David Haye and his new promotional company were actually, and get this, trying to make money out of boxing.....



You will be telling me WWF is fixed next

WHAT?!!!

You mean it is real after all?

WOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Brian Moore]

If this Brian Moore is just a casual boxing fan who happens to love allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly I'll platt sh1t!!

From nearly every post he's made I've thought, he's either on the SN payroll or works for a PR firm on their behalf.

Either that or he is a totally deluded imbecile who has a room at home dedicated to FW posters and effigies (Alan Partridge psycho fan style)

I'm presenting a balanced argument, something which you seem incapable of understanding. Not everything that is wrong with British Boxing is down to Warren. Other promoters have staged "minor" world championship fights and conned the paying public. The Board of Control should have put a stop to this but didn't.

As for classing me as being on Warren's payroll your points are made without any foundation. I've not been impressed with the quality of Warren's cards since he returned to SKY, I agree completely with the above poster who slated Warren for his poor communications regarding the switching of Brook-McIntyre from Birmingham to Scotland, and I detest how the likes of Brook and Cleverly have left their long-time trainers in order to progress their careers after what appears like they have been strongly persuaded to do so. I also find it disconcerting as to how Bradley Pryce and Enzo Maccarinelli haven't fought since the parting of ways between Joe Calzaghe and Warren.

I hope the above highlights to you and a minority of others how wide of the mark you are being.

Well Brian if that's the case then I apologise, but with you being a resonably new poster and every other comment seeming to be a dig at David Haye, Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe and the rest defending FW I was beginning to wander if you were the man himself now he's got so few decent boxers left in his stable and has plenty of time on his side.

Can I ask why you seem to be so crtical of Britain's three most successful boxers in recent times?? I find it strange that them promoting themselves would be so offensive to you and that you consider someone like Calzaghe greedy for choosing to self promote potentially his last ever fight.

Thanks. I'll try and address your points. I don't have anything against David Haye, I made a dig about his website not being updated last week but I think this turned out to be an oversight on my part. I think what Haye is doing by stepping up to heavyweight is a brave and bold gamble, but something for which he has to be applauded for. Either way, Haye will go out on his shield and we'll soon find out if he can pull it off. I do think Haye is selfish to an extent. David's gone through his fair share of promoters over the years. I'm sure Frank Maloney was disappointed that Haye chose to go his separate ways after Maloney delivered him a title shot against Mormeck. Haye will no doubt argue that he had to go to France to win it though. I have a feeling that Haye will fail at heavyweight but I commend him for having the balls to test himself.

I do have less time for Calzaghe and Hatton, as people, not as boxers. I've lost respect for Hatton over his handling over the Mayweather ticket allocation which amounted to squeezing every last penny and more from his very loyal fan base. Latest "marketing" promotions where Team Hatton is asking fans to pay money to have a chance of having their name printed on his robe is equally deplorable in my book. Ricky's a terrific fighter. I just happen to think he's on the slide and that Malignaggi could pull off the upset.

With regards to Calzaghe, his decision to leave Warren is of course at his discretion but it does smack of greed in my opinion. Warren delivered Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler to Britain which helped Calzaghe finally become a major boxing attraction when for years he'd often flattered to deceive. Having reached the very top following his contentious victory over Hopkins I think the timing of Calzaghe's decision to ditch Warren was in poor taste. Joe's surely a very wealthy man having earned very well from Warren over the years. I'm not taking anything away from Joe the boxer though and his wonderful accomplishments, particularly over the last two years.

[Wax On]

Fair enough, but to be honest I don't agree with your opinion that by leaving a promoter to promote themselves, this makes them greedy.

Boxing is a business, and it's Joe, David and Ricky putting themselves on the line, not the promoters.

And in business, if the promoters aren't capable of keeping a hold of their fighters, by putting in place water tight contracts or by taking less of the fighter's cut as they become more commercially successful, then I see no problem with a fighter looking elsewhere for a better deal.

I suppose you could compare it to the likes of Prince or George Michael leaving their record companies because they wanted more control over their career and to earn a greater % of what their album sales are. No one slated them. (other than for one giving himself a symbol for a name and the other being allegedly caught with his pants down in a New York public toilet and both of them being camper than a row of pink tents)

I think it's naive to expect people to stay with promoters out of loyalty. If it was amateur boxing or low level pros then yes maybe, but we're talking multi million pound fight deals here!!

[Brian Moore]

Fair enough, but to be honest I don't agree with your opinion that by leaving a promoter to promote themselves, this makes them greedy.

Boxing is a business, and it's Joe, David and Ricky putting themselves on the line, not the promoters.

And in business, if the promoters aren't capable of keeping a hold of their fighters, by putting in place water tight contracts or by taking less of the fighter's cut as they become more commercially successful, then I see no problem with a fighter looking elsewhere for a better deal.

I suppose you could compare it to the likes of Prince or George Michael leaving their record companies because they wanted more control over their career and to earn a greater % of what their album sales are. No one slated them.

I think it's naive to expect people to stay with promoters out of loyalty. If it was amateur boxing or low level pros then yes maybe, but we're talking multi million pound fight deals here!!

Fair enough, Wax On, I do understand where you are coming off but our opinions differ on this point.

[DavidPayne]

quote]

:o Are you serious? The Sports Network MC's ALWAYS used to announce those kind of fights as 'world title' fights. And in the red corner, 'the undefeated WBU light-welterweight champion of the world...Rickaaaaaay...Hattooooon."

You can't remember that? Wow. I always thought the MC's would get the boot if they DIDN'T announce the fights like that, such was the regularity and hillarity of the whole thing.

The same applied for Anthony Farnell and everyone else on the production line. The WBU and its ugly sister belts were always promoted as 'world titles'. Anyone that has watched boxing in the last seven or eight years knows that.

Maybe they did in the early days but towards the end I'm fairly sure they announced the winners of such title bouts as "And the winner, and the WBU's blah blah champion". I'm not disputing what was on the fight posters.

SKY, The British Boxing Board of Control and the fighters are as much to blame as the promoters for this mess. Everyone had a choice.

Brian - if the announcer wasn't passing off WBU as world title fights how did he have thebrass neck to introduce Micky Vann with the statement, and "officiating in his 145th world title fight"

[Brian Moore]

The same applied for Anthony Farnell and everyone else on the production line. The WBU and its ugly sister belts were always promoted as 'world titles'. Anyone that has watched boxing in the last seven or eight years knows that.[/quote]

Maybe they did in the early days but towards the end I'm fairly sure they announced the winners of such title bouts as "And the winner, and the WBU's blah blah champion". I'm not disputing what was on the fight posters.

SKY, The British Boxing Board of Control and the fighters are as much to blame as the promoters for this mess. Everyone had a choice.[/quote][/quote]

Brian - if the announcer wasn't passing off WBU as world title fights how did he have thebrass neck to introduce Micky Vann with the statement, and "officiating in his 145th world title fight"[/quote]

Very good point, David. You've got me on that one and I do remember them announcing the refs like this.

[Carbo]

The problem here isn't that he’s labeling Cook is Britain's only world champion – wrong, by the way, on two counts: he's not a world champion, and Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe are -- but that he had the temerity to pass all those WBU fights off as world title affairs.

Who is to blame for this? Promoters are happy, because the confusion caused by putting the misleading 'world title' tag on a fight can bring in extra revenue, which also makes fighters happy.

A fighter has the right to earn as much money as he can, and the promoter the right to do likewise.

The real culprits are the television companies. They hold the power in boxing, because all of the fights at the higher end of the scale require TV money to make their economically viable. If television companies refused to televise any show that paid a sanction fee -- not only to the cowboys of the WBU and WBF, but also to the leeches at the WBC and WBA -- only genuine world title fights would be classed as such, and real belts, like the Lonsdale belt and European belt, would increase in importance and status. Further, it would be more difficult for fighters to avoid eachother by taking 'different routes'. There would only be one summit and one route there.

Don't blame Warren. He is a boxing promoter who has to promote boxing matches. To do this, he must hype and sell. It's natural for him to do anything he can to achieve maximum revenue.

Television is where the lobbying needs to be directed.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

The problem here isn't that he’s labeling Cook is Britain's only world champion – wrong, by the way, on two counts: he's not a world champion, and Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe are -- but that he had the temerity to pass all those WBU fights off as world title affairs.

Who is to blame for this? Promoters are happy, because the confusion caused by putting the misleading 'world title' tag on a fight can bring in extra revenue, which also makes fighters happy.

A fighter has the right to earn as much money as he can, and the promoter the right to do likewise.

The real culprits are the television companies. They hold the power in boxing, because all of the fights at the higher end of the scale require TV money to make their economically viable. If television companies refused to televise any show that paid a sanction fee -- not only to the cowboys of the WBU and WBF, but also to the leeches at the WBC and WBA -- only genuine world title fights would be classed as such, and real belts, like the Lonsdale belt and European belt, would increase in importance and status. Further, it would be more difficult for fighters to avoid eachother by taking 'different routes'. There would only be one summit and one route there.

Don't blame Warren. He is a boxing promoter who has to promote boxing matches. To do this, he must hype and sell. It's natural for him to do anything he can to achieve maximum revenue.

Television is where the lobbying needs to be directed.

Excellent post Crabo, but dont waste your time trying to explain how boxing / the world works to these people


Just stick to Hatton ducked Witter, in future....

[Brian Moore]

Fair enough Carbo but where do you draw the line. The British Boxing Board of Control should never have allowed thesr bogus titles to be staged in Britiain in the first place meaning that the promoters wouldn't have able to stage such contests and television wouldn't have been able to screen them.

[Autobarn]

I think everyone is aware of the situation. We all know that a promoter will get away with anything if they can. BUT, Let's not forget Barry Hearn's comment about how we buggered it all up, and it'll take a good 10 years to fix it - before patronising everyone with the old "it's boxing", "they're promtoers what do you expect" disclaimer. Hearn's a promoter, isn't he now?

Cook may hold a belt, but then there is the question, does holding a belt really make you a champion? Cook is a good fighter, but he was outclassed by Luevano, a fairly average world title holder. Cook is simply a title holder, aftre beating Arthur who was GIVEN a belt, and is not in the same galaxy as Calzaghe, Haye and Hatton.

Let's not forget, it wasn't just WBO. Go back to the mid/late '80s, and find that Duke McKenzie, Glen McCrory and others became champs thanks to the new organisation, the IBF. I believe they got too big for their boots, trying to set up some rival to the BBBofC but were sent packing and we didn't see many IBF fights for a while.

Then the WBO. Ranking a dead man, jumping British fighters to the top of ratings, and responsible for all manner of poor world title challengers. Yes, we let 'em in though it wasn't immediately as the Board didn't recognise Benn vs Barkley, did they?

I think some more stringent measures should have been taken. I mean, the Board let Frank bring in some crappy WBO challengers but not til recently (to my knowledge) did they block a challenger, Ezra Sellers ("power punching monster who stopped Carl Thompson"), about 40 yo and apparently in lengthy physio.

At least now some kind of line seems to have been drawn. When did we last see a WBU fight on TV? Did anyone catch Lee McAllister's two "world title reigns" on TV? Thought not. The guy had to give up his belts so he could fight for the British title, no?

And let's not forget, there are promotors who take a more traditionalist route, domestic, Euro then WBC, for those who want an alternative.

[Carbo]

Can I just confirm that everybody here is aware that Britain is a democracy in which individuals have the right to chose, and not a totallitarian state in which everybody must fill the streets and cry when the glorious leader dies?

We are all aware, I'm sure, of the famous economic rule of "supply and demand"?

Do we know what happens when a television provider puts on something that people don't want to watch, or when a football team hardly wins a game? People stop watching.

Why do you all think that safety first, fractuous nature of boxing promotion suddenly gave way to the events of 2007, one of the finest years for boxing since God-knows-when?

I would suggest that people stopped watching because promoters weren't working together to put on the best fights, and were overprotecting their assets. They were forced to put on a good show.

And, of course, HBO had their worst ratings ever recently. Why? Because they're not producing competitive fights on a regular basis. The fans are talking with their cash. And, if HBO want to stay in business, they will have to demand better.

Read this from Hauser, if all y'all still don't geddit.

Next came HBO’s September 27th World Championship Boxing card featuring Shane Mosley (an 8-to-1 favorite) against Ricardo Mayorga and Andre Berto (7-to-1) vs. Stevie Forbes. That constituted an almost US$4,000,000 bailout (the license fee paid by HBO) of what was to have been an October 11th pay-per-view card headed by Mosley-Mayorga.

Regarding Mosley-Mayorga, Michael Swann wrote online for CBS Sports, “Ricardo Mayorga has about as much chance of beating Sugar Shane Mosley as 82-year-old Cloris Leachman has of winning Dancing with the Stars.”

As for Berto-Forbes, Larry Merchant acknowledged at the start of the telecast, “This is a young gun going up against a penknife.” The best that Jim Lampley could say about the encounter was that it would be “an interesting sort of litmus test.”

Apparently, Berto-Forbes wasn’t very interesting to HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg, who could be seen on camera throughout the bout looking away from the ring to talk with people sitting beside and behind him. The telecast engendered a meager 2.5 rating ($1,600,000 per ratings point) despite having the premiere showing of Chris Rock: Kill the Messenger as a lead-in.

One week later, HBO’s October 4th Boxing After Dark telecast offered up three more mismatches. In the opening bout, Sergio Martinez (a 6-to-1 favorite) outlanded Alex Bunema 212 to 31 before the fight was stopped at the end of eight rounds. Then Alfredo Angulo won every round against Andrey Tsurkan (outlanding him 400 to 143) before scoring a tenth-round stoppage. In the finale, Yuriorkis Gamboa (a 10-to-1 favorite) faced off against Marcos Ramirez. That one lasted until the 1:41 mark of round two. There was never a time when the outcome of any of the three fights was in doubt. In fact, the favorite would have won every round out of twenty rounds fought if referee Jerry Cantu hadn’t blown a call in the first round of Gamboa-Ramirez and incorrectly called a knockdown after an elbow to the jaw sent Gamboa to the canvas.

Then came the really bad news. HBO learned that its October 4th telecast had engendered a 1.1 rating. That’s the absolute worst rating ever for a live prime-time HBO boxing telecast.

Unfortunately, more mismatches lie ahead on “regular” HBO. On November 15th, Jermain Taylor will enter the ring a 5-to-1 favorite over Jeff Lacy. The November 22nd match-up between Ricky Hatton and Paulie Malignaggi shapes up as a good competitive fight. But there’s concern that, on November 29th, HBO will pair Paul Williams and Chris Arreola in non-competitive bouts.

To repeat what I’ve written time and time again: boxing fans want to see good COMPETITIVE fights.

HBO Sports was once the heart and soul of boxing. But the network is losing its audience and the respect of the industry as a whole as a consequence of presenting so many mismatches on HBO World Championship Boxing and Boxing After Dark.

The ratings show that HBO boxing is broken. A change in programming philosophy is necessary to fix it.

[Carbo]

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