Tarver KO2 Jones

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 May 2004, 14:24

MightyWarrior wrote:
bennie wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:I had a bet on a Tarver win on points, and put one down on a Tarver TKO just in case
Who did Houston go for, MW?
Jones on points. He's slipping 8)

Houston's a very good judge. Mad as a hatter, but a very good judge.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 May 2004, 14:27

Graham Houston went for Jones i think in Boxing Monthly, i was reading his review last night on nights.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 May 2004, 14:30

Yeah, Mighty Warrior said. Incredible win for Tarver IMO. He's 35, but will dominate for a couple of years I feel.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 16 May 2004, 14:36

Tarver can go on for certain, Bernard Hopkins is proof that good training and conditioning can carry on for a good few years more.

The Devil In Roy Jones · Post by **The Devil In Roy Jones** » 16 May 2004, 15:43

Well this is one birthday I won't forget in a hurry.

I know that Tarver is up for a Calzaghe fight, he has been for a while, the question now is whether Joe is?

I've always thought Calzaghe had a chance against Tarver, and I'll be watching this Jones fight really closely now. Though, can you imagine the hype spewing from the SN machine (and Calzaghe himself) if Joe were to beat Tarver. Suddenly, I bet, Joe would have always been the best for the past 7 years (or however long he's been 'world champion').

As for the Jones - Tarver fight, it wasn't as if a little fairy flew down and carried Tarver's hand over to Roy's head. No, this was a beautiful counter punch inside Roy's guard. People on other forums say it was luck, but having seen the clip (thanks REAL DEAL

) I don't buy that.

Perhaps Tarver is lucky in the sense that Jones may have succumbed to the ultimate opponent - Time. As Shakespeare said in his sonnet sequence: Time is an inexorable destroyer that NO-ONE escapes from. Some people can go on longer than others, like Foreman. Others are washed up before their mid 20's. Jones, as a reflex fighter at 35, with a looong career at championship level, may have already passed his career high-point.

For me, I can still watch his old fights and admire them same as when I first saw them. Everyone who has decent boxing knowledge knows how good Jones was/is. One punch does not cancel out years of performances showing awesome ability. It's not like he even got beat up, like Manos De Piedra against Hearns, it was just a single punch.

One last thing I must say though: I'm glad this forum exists, because if it didn't I wouldn't post/read anywhere at all. ESB is filled with ignorant hysterical fanboys, who now seem to be spilling over and saturating the Current Scene forum on this website. :( Occasionally there is a good article, but other times it's polysyllabic drivel that merely masks a writer who makes no real point i.e. fence-sits.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 May 2004, 15:53

Holy Shit! Unbelievable!

I didn't get to make a prediction as a I was sleeping off Jet Lag on Friday, I saw some pictures of Jones, and figured based on that that he would lose, he looked awful at the weigh in, very old and lined, he obviously cannot make light heavyweight any more, too much hard work.

It was a shot which Jones never saw coming, and it was travelling very fast too. Jones did well to get up at all after slamming his head so hard.

Now does anyone doubt that Jones would have a hard time with Toney? Toney has more left in the tank than Jones.

I think Jones should just retire. He relies too much on reflexes, and now that they are in decline, and his movement isn't so good (notice how flat footed he has become) he will become an ordinary fighter with decent handspeed almost overnight. A few years ago, he would have been moving too fast and would have anticipated the shot from Tarver, now he was just a sitting duck and took the shot flush, instead of riding it out like he used to.

Jones should either fight above light heavyweight or just call it a day, I do not see him getting any better, and there's a lot of punchers out there who will be fancying their chances.

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 16 May 2004, 15:56

IM surprised at the reaction on the boards as Tarver is slightly above average at best....bad night for Jones but he hasnt been himself for a while now although he is still a good few tiers above Tarver.

Calzaghe has nothing to worry about with Tarver they are both about the same level.

HH

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 May 2004, 16:33

I think that is a very glib statement. Let's see how Joe does against Johnson before making any claims about how he does against Tarver.

My guess is that Tarver will be a far better fighter now he has whupped Jones likes that, and whilst I don't see him every dominating the division like Jones did, he's still an excellent fighter, and a very big and powerful light heavyweight who will have significant height, weight and reach advantages over Calzaghe if and when they fight....

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 16 May 2004, 16:52

The Devil In Roy Jones wrote:Well this is one birthday I won't forget in a hurry.

Yours, too? I was just cleaning up after a B-day BBQ yesterday evening, waiting for ESPN to start giving round-by-round summaries (sans pics, just how the round was scored). While I was waiting and checking back in to ESPN every few minutes, guess what they were showing on ESPN2?

Ali/Foreman 1974.

Kudos to Tarver for backing up his boasting in the ring - as Ali said, "It ain't bragging if you actually do it."

Those who are writing off RJJ as all washed up are going overboard, IMO - sounds like he was doing pretty well until he just happened to get caught with a perfect counter left from a big, strong fighter. As Roy himself said, it happens. If you stay in the game long enough and fight enough guys, you will inevitably meet up with a punch that has your name on it. That's boxing. It may be true as some say that the Jones of the late 90s (or even pre-Ruiz, before he did the weight yo-yo thing) would have had the reflexes to avoid such a shot, but I don't think it's fair to Tarver to assume that.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the LHW division in the coming months - this certainly has shaken things up there in grand fashion.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 17 May 2004, 08:59

Trust me, Tarver will fight Jirov next

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 17 May 2004, 09:01

The point im making is that Neither Calzaghe or Tarver are exceptional fighters and neither will have signficant advantages over the other IMO....

Its always amusing when a fighter has a big win how everyone jumps on the bandwagon so to speak....

Mayorga and Manny was the same situation and neither turned out to be anything special....neither is Tarver.

HH

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 17 May 2004, 10:34

The Devil In Roy Jones wrote:Well this is one birthday I won't forget in a hurry.

I know that Tarver is up for a Calzaghe fight, he has been for a while, the question now is whether Joe is?

I've always thought Calzaghe had a chance against Tarver, and I'll be watching this Jones fight really closely now. Though, can you imagine the hype spewing from the SN machine (and Calzaghe himself) if Joe were to beat Tarver. Suddenly, I bet, Joe would have always been the best for the past 7 years (or however long he's been 'world champion').

As for the Jones - Tarver fight, it wasn't as if a little fairy flew down and carried Tarver's hand over to Roy's head. No, this was a beautiful counter punch inside Roy's guard. People on other forums say it was luck, but having seen the clip (thanks REAL DEAL ) I don't buy that.

Perhaps Tarver is lucky in the sense that Jones may have succumbed to the ultimate opponent - Time. As Shakespeare said in his sonnet sequence: Time is an inexorable destroyer that NO-ONE escapes from. Some people can go on longer than others, like Foreman. Others are washed up before their mid 20's. Jones, as a reflex fighter at 35, with a looong career at championship level, may have already passed his career high-point.

For me, I can still watch his old fights and admire them same as when I first saw them. Everyone who has decent boxing knowledge knows how good Jones was/is. One punch does not cancel out years of performances showing awesome ability. It's not like he even got beat up, like Manos De Piedra against Hearns, it was just a single punch.

One last thing I must say though: I'm glad this forum exists, because if it didn't I wouldn't post/read anywhere at all. ESB is filled with ignorant hysterical fanboys, who now seem to be spilling over and saturating the Current Scene forum on this website. :( Occasionally there is a good article, but other times it's polysyllabic drivel that merely masks a writer who makes no real point i.e. fence-sits.

Calzaghe has said on frank warrens website that the doors are now wide open for a unification fight, IMO calzaghe would beat tarver(who does look like the guy out of forest gump).

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 May 2004, 10:44

Sure, Tarver is nothing he gives Jones the fight of his career in their first fight, then comes out and knocks him silly with one shot in the rematch, he's just a turd.

Come on, nobody is claiming that Tarver is an all time great, certainly not yet, he'd have a lot to do to ever get there at 35 too, but Calzaghe has beaten who? Brewer, Mitchell, and aged Eubank, those are hardly going to make him an all time great are they?

Calzaghe is moving up in weight against a HUGE light heavyweight, the guy dwarfed Jones in both fights, and Calzaghe is not an especially muscular fighter and I fail to see how he can Match Tarver for brute strength at light heavyweight.

Calzaghe has never even fought at the weight yet, and anyone talking about him beating Tarver at this stage is optimistic.

Tarver could well be one of those late bloomers who doesn't really come into their own until they become a champion, he certainly had the confidence to plant his feet and drop a bomb on Jones in the rematch, and Jones despite what anyone says isn't china chinned by any means.

I think Calzaghe would have some tremendous physical disadvantages at light heavyweight against Tarver. If he manages to beat Glen and Antonio, then he deserves his props, but let's not get carried away annointing him with the heavyweight crown just yet eh?

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 17 May 2004, 11:10

jamesmcdonnell wrote:My guess is that Tarver will be a far better fighter now he has whupped Jones likes that, and whilst I don't see him every dominating the division like Jones did, he's still an excellent fighter, and a very big and powerful light heavyweight who will have significant height, weight and reach advantages over Calzaghe if and when they fight....

Tarver is definitely a big rangy light-heavy in the Spinks/Foster mold. But I really wonder if he'll be able to get up for a fight again like he did for the Jones bouts - chasing RJJ has been an utter obsession of his for over a decade now.

What happens with Jones from here on? I think it's clear we've seen the best of him. As many have pointed out, reflex fighters - even magnificently gifted ones like Roy - don't age well in the fight game. And when you've been at it for as long as RJJ and are as stubborn and proud as that, I don't think the kind of major retooling of one's game that would be needed to extend one's career at the top is going to happen. Even if it clearly within Jones' talents to do so, I don't think he would get any joy out of the game by having to fight more conventionally, especially considering that he's clearly had trouble getting up mentally for fights for a while now.

Whatever happens, I still find it remarkable that a natural middleweight was able to dominate the light-heavies for the better part of a decade. When you compare his career to that of the other all-time-great light-heavies, ask yourself: how many of these guys had a significant size disadvantage nearly every time they fought at 175?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 17 May 2004, 11:34

Hardhitters11 wrote:
Its always amusing when a fighter has a big win how everyone jumps on the bandwagon so to speak....

Come on mate it's never as simple as that. It takes special performances to trounce the like of Vernon Forrest and Marco Antonio Barrera. And I for one certainly didn't feel like I had egg on my face after Mayorga and Pacquiao failed against Spinks and Marquez. Both were very close fights right to the end.

Tarver might not be the most talented fighter in history but it takes something special to blast out Roy Jones Jr, something I'm pretty sure Calzaghe couldn't produce.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 17 May 2004, 12:41

I'm so shocked. I've always liked watching Jones and I can't believe he got sparked like that.

Seems he has grown old overnight, but then again, it was very early, he'd won the first round and just got caught. Seems he didn't see the punch coming at all, but even then, it wasn't a particularly huge punch, ie like when Iran Barkley flattened Thomas Hearns the first time round.

Even so, I saw some photos of Jones prior to the fight and he just didn't look right, skin dry etc, so maybe holding his weight down is difficult, thus weakening his punch resistancet, but then again, Tarver does have some pop in that left hand.

I think a rubber match is in order to sort out who's the best man.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 17 May 2004, 12:49

DIRT SUGAR wrote:I'm so shocked. I've always liked watching Jones and I can't believe he got sparked like that.

Seems he has grown old overnight, but then again, it was very early, he'd won the first round and just got caught. Seems he didn't see the punch coming at all, but even then, it wasn't a particularly huge punch, ie like when Iran Barkley flattened Thomas Hearns the first time round.

Even so, I saw some photos of Jones prior to the fight and he just didn't look right, skin dry etc, so maybe holding his weight down is difficult, thus weakening his punch resistancet, but then again, Tarver does have some pop in that left hand.

I think a rubber match is in order to sort out who's the best man.

If they fight again - it will have to be ayt heavyweight !.

RJJ can not safely do Lt heavy, imo.!

Even Calzagher wouldhaver beaten Jonres that night !

Going to Heavyweight and moving back down has ruined him at 12st 7lbs !

RJJ was weak - that punch was nothing !..

You will be pleased to know that I have been banned at esb so we can do battle over here !

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 17 May 2004, 12:54

DG. wrote:
RJJ was weak - that punch was nothing !..

It looked like a well timed accurate punch to me, if the timing right there doesn't have to be too much powere behind it. Also Roy banged his head on the canvas when he went down.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 17 May 2004, 12:55

DG. wrote:You will be pleased to know that I have been banned at esb so we can do battle over here !

Welcome to the ever-expanding club, DG. Around here having been banned from ESB is a sort of merit badge. I was banned (though not specifically from the British forum there) last year, and even though my company switched ISPs since then and I can visit the ESB site (due to the new IP #s we now use), I rarely do, due to the generally low level of debate and high level of shrill hysteria there. Getting banned from ESB was the best thing that ever happened to me, boxing-forum-wise, and perhaps you'll find yourself thinking the same thing in a few months. ;)

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 May 2004, 13:23

KOJOE90 wrote:
DG. wrote:
RJJ was weak - that punch was nothing !..
It looked like a well timed accurate punch to me, if the timing right there doesn't have to be too much powere behind it. Also Roy banged his head on the canvas when he went down.

I've seen a couple of angles of the finishing shot now, and while it landed flush, it wasn't the sort of shot you'd expect to take out a Hall Of Famer like that.
When you think of great fighters getting taken OUT - Curry v McCallum, Hearns v Barkely, Duran - THOSE were finishing shots

The type of spectacular punches there's no coming back from.

Just seems strange that the Great Roy goes out from what looked a fairly average punch.
If someone had told me that Roy had just been knocked out - I'd picture a Hearns type bomb of a right hand, or a Ray Leonard 4 punch combination, something like that.
Strange how things turn out. Maybe now people will realise that Lewis DIDN'T have a glass jaw either.

ANYONE can get knocked out, as we've just seen.