Wayne McCullough: get out while you still can

[bennie]

The Belfast Telegraph is reporting that faded old soldier Wayne McCullough is hoping to fight on the Audley Harrison bill on June 19.
"I have talked with Audley and it's just a matter of tying a few things up," said Wayne. "He's keen to have me on the show and to give me a chance.
"I would expect it to be a 10-rounder and it will be great just to be able to get fighting again. "I saw Injin Chi defeat Michael Brodie for the WBC featherweight title and I know I would beat him. He's not a special fighter. There are others there but it's just a matter of getting the chance and so far it has been hard to get a deal done."
McCullough needs to be matched very carefully if he does return to the ring. Like Riddick Bowe, the Irishman's best days are long gone. Incidentally, there's talk of The Black Rhino for big Audley.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Last I heard, from someone in Vegas, McCulloch as coming back at Super-Bantam, which I don't have a problem with. it's fighting at feather which is foolhardy.

[bennie]

Last I heard, from someone in Vegas, McCulloch as coming back at Super-Bantam, which I don't have a problem with. it's fighting at feather which is foolhardy.

Was Wayne at the Marquez fight, James?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes he was, looking very fit indeed, didn't get a chance to talk to him, but someone I got talking to told me he is returning at super bantam and will be fighting for Audley's promotional banner.

[KOJOE90]

This is a bit worrying Wayne has been in a lot of tough fights, Morales, Hamed and last year with Scott Harrison, where he ended up in hospital afterwards.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't think there is anyone at super bantam who will really give him a working over, but at featherweight he is asking for serious trouble, Marquez and Pacquaio would give him a terrible beating.

[hitman_hatton1]

if wayne has any sense he'll fight at super bantam butr he's a fighter and sense doesn't normally come into the equation. :(

[stujones]

I will not write off McCullough yet, he looked okay in the build up to the Harrison fight, albeit against poor oppotition and I do fear him mentioning Chi (who for me shares all the attributes that Harrison does).

McCullough could be competitive at either Feather or Super Bantam, but only if the Feathers were not particularly massive for their weight (Brodie vs McCullough would be interesting.

I still think there is major honours left in him at Super Bantam.

[Loynesy]

Although you have to question someone who has just legally adopted his nickname as part of his name...

[Twinkle Toes]

If he is allowed to work, he might still have enough to be a threat to the super bantam holders, but for me, I think he is past it.

I'm not so sure he should be fighting on. It was an awful battering he took against Harrison, but he'll probably turn up and knock out a couple of journeymen, and people will start taling about world titles again. Which is exactly what happened pre-Harrison.

[stujones]

Although you have to question someone who has just legally adopted his nickname as part of his name...

What is he Wayne The Pocket Rocket McCullough, or is he The Pocket Rocket Wayne McCullough.

[Loynesy]

Stu - the latter, he now goes by the name Wayne The Pocket Rocket McCulloch.

Wonder if it says that on his gas bill and credit card...

[MightyWarrior]

Just reading Ghosts Of Manila, where Kram describes the two choices Ali had after the 3rd Frazier fight:
"Get out in one piece, or go on in a sport that is unforgiving to old men, especially those with too much pride and heart"

As we all know, Ali made the wrong choice, and Kram describes the retired Ali as "like a sightless man feeling his way through the empty rooms of his remaining history"

Now I thought of Holyfield when I read that, but it could just as easily be Wayne if he's not careful.
His wife/manager seems as dangerous to his health as anyone: sitting ringside for the Harrison slaughter she barely raised an eyebrow, seemingly happy to watch her husband get battered round after round, along with his equaly useless corner.

[bennie]

Just reading Ghosts Of Manila, where Kram describes the two choices Ali had after the 3rd Frazier fight:
"Get out in one piece, or go on in a sport that is unforgiving to old men, especially those with too much pride and heart"

As we all know, Ali made the wrong choice, and Kram describes the retired Ali as "like a sightless man feeling his way through the empty rooms of his remaining history"

Now I thought of Holyfield when I read that, but it could just as easily be Wayne if he's not careful.
His wife/manager seems as dangerous to his health as anyone: sitting ringside for the Harrison slaughter she barely raised an eyebrow, seemingly happy to watch her husband get battered round after round, along with his equaly useless corner.

If only Ali had made the right choice, he may have avoided his Parkinson's Syndrome. But as George Plimpton said in the memorable "When we were Kings", Ali truly loved boxing. And what you love too much, destroys you in the end.

[TheRiverCityHippy]

kinda like pizza`s

[stujones]

Just reading Ghosts Of Manila, where Kram describes the two choices Ali had after the 3rd Frazier fight:
"Get out in one piece, or go on in a sport that is unforgiving to old men, especially those with too much pride and heart"

As we all know, Ali made the wrong choice, and Kram describes the retired Ali as "like a sightless man feeling his way through the empty rooms of his remaining history"

Now I thought of Holyfield when I read that, but it could just as easily be Wayne if he's not careful.
His wife/manager seems as dangerous to his health as anyone: sitting ringside for the Harrison slaughter she barely raised an eyebrow, seemingly happy to watch her husband get battered round after round, along with his equaly useless corner.

If only Ali had made the right choice, he may have avoided his Parkinson's Syndrome. But as George Plimpton said in the memorable "When we were Kings", Ali truly loved boxing. And what you love too much, destroys you in the end.

I have read that that Ali was probably always suseptible to getting Parkinson's. Just like Johnny Owen, there was always so sort of "fault" there and if it Ali was an amateur now, probably wouldn't have been advised to turn pro.

Of course, getting punched around didn't help - but that is why he had the syndrome, and many fighters didn't.

The Thrilla in Manilla effected Joe Frazier aswell.

[knockout artist]

Chi would do McCulloch some serious damage and could leave him walking on his heels.

[bennie]

Just reading Ghosts Of Manila, where Kram describes the two choices Ali had after the 3rd Frazier fight:
"Get out in one piece, or go on in a sport that is unforgiving to old men, especially those with too much pride and heart"

As we all know, Ali made the wrong choice, and Kram describes the retired Ali as "like a sightless man feeling his way through the empty rooms of his remaining history"

Now I thought of Holyfield when I read that, but it could just as easily be Wayne if he's not careful.
His wife/manager seems as dangerous to his health as anyone: sitting ringside for the Harrison slaughter she barely raised an eyebrow, seemingly happy to watch her husband get battered round after round, along with his equaly useless corner.

If only Ali had made the right choice, he may have avoided his Parkinson's Syndrome. But as George Plimpton said in the memorable "When we were Kings", Ali truly loved boxing. And what you love too much, destroys you in the end.

I have read that that Ali was probably always suseptible to getting Parkinson's. Just like Johnny Owen, there was always so sort of "fault" there and if it Ali was an amateur now, probably wouldn't have been advised to turn pro.

Of course, getting punched around didn't help - but that is why he had the syndrome, and many fighters didn't.

The Thrilla in Manilla effected Joe Frazier aswell.

Ali showed no signs of the Syndrome after his first career came to an end in 1967 after a long amateur career and nine defences of his world heavyweight title. He was out three-and-half-years. If he was as susceptible to Parkinson's as you suggest, he would have got it then.
But, no, the symptons only began to show towards the end of his career when he was taking far too many head shots for his own good. Something had to give.

[silkov]

If only Ali had made the right choice, he may have avoided his Parkinson's Syndrome. But as George Plimpton said in the memorable "When we were Kings", Ali truly loved boxing. And what you love too much, destroys you in the end.

I have read that that Ali was probably always suseptible to getting Parkinson's. Just like Johnny Owen, there was always so sort of "fault" there and if it Ali was an amateur now, probably wouldn't have been advised to turn pro.

Of course, getting punched around didn't help - but that is why he had the syndrome, and many fighters didn't.

The Thrilla in Manilla effected Joe Frazier aswell.

Ali showed no signs of the Syndrome after his first career came to an end in 1967 after a long amateur career and nine defences of his world heavyweight title. He was out three-and-half-years. If he was as susceptible to Parkinson's as you suggest, he would have got it then.
But, no, the symptons only began to show towards the end of his career when he was taking far too many head shots for his own good. Something had to give.

I know what you're saying Bennie... certainly the Holmes and Berbick fights didn't help Ali any but an interesting thing I've read about Ali was that some members of his family repotedly remember him sluring his speech a bit as far back as '70 before he came back from his 'exile'.
Also I have always been a little puzzled as to how Ali lost so much of his speed during his 3 and a half years out.... especially the legspeed and coordination.... I realise there is rust and age but he was only 28 when he came back and looking at his fights post '70 I'd say he'd lost about 30 to 35% of his former speed and reflexes.... the only reason he was able to continue to acheive what he did is that the remaining 70% was so brilliant plus Ali was able to adapt his style and call upon an enormous heart and great chin.... but I do wonder sometimes that perhaps even in the early 70s the parkingsons was already developing.... remember Micheal J fOX started to develop Parkingsons in his late 20s.... but managed to hide it from the world for over a decade.... Fox never boxed either.
There is also a theory that Parkinsons can be caused by inhaling paint or chemical fumes and Ali's father was a sign painter and there was paint and stuff all over the house Ali grew up in.
Certainly Ali took too many punches in the tailend of his career but I think many other fighters took more and are ok, perhaps Ali would have developed Parkingsons if he had been a unknown lorry driver.
Having said that I hope Wayne won't fight on, he's taken a heel of a lot of punches, indeed I found the Harrison fight quite disturbing and sickening in that noone on Waynes side stepped in to save him from a horrible and prolonged beating. Ali's doctor Ferdie Patcheco said once something like if you have a drop of water hitting a iron bar for long enough eventually the iron bar will break... I think Wayne should get out now and those around him should know this.

[bennie]

I have read that that Ali was probably always suseptible to getting Parkinson's. Just like Johnny Owen, there was always so sort of "fault" there and if it Ali was an amateur now, probably wouldn't have been advised to turn pro.

Of course, getting punched around didn't help - but that is why he had the syndrome, and many fighters didn't.

The Thrilla in Manilla effected Joe Frazier aswell.

Ali showed no signs of the Syndrome after his first career came to an end in 1967 after a long amateur career and nine defences of his world heavyweight title. He was out three-and-half-years. If he was as susceptible to Parkinson's as you suggest, he would have got it then.
But, no, the symptons only began to show towards the end of his career when he was taking far too many head shots for his own good. Something had to give.

I know what you're saying Bennie... certainly the Holmes and Berbick fights didn't help Ali any but an interesting thing I've read about Ali was that some members of his family repotedly remember him sluring his speech a bit as far back as '70 before he came back from his 'exile'.
Also I have always been a little puzzled as to how Ali lost so much of his speed during his 3 and a half years out.... especially the legspeed and coordination.... I realise there is rust and age but he was only 28 when he came back and looking at his fights post '70 I'd say he'd lost about 30 to 35% of his former speed and reflexes.... the only reason he was able to continue to acheive what he did is that the remaining 70% was so brilliant plus Ali was able to adapt his style and call upon an enormous heart and great chin.... but I do wonder sometimes that perhaps even in the early 70s the parkingsons was already developing.... remember Micheal J fOX started to develop Parkingsons in his late 20s.... but managed to hide it from the world for over a decade.... Fox never boxed either.
There is also a theory that Parkinsons can be caused by inhaling paint or chemical fumes and Ali's father was a sign painter and there was paint and stuff all over the house Ali grew up in.
Certainly Ali took too many punches in the tailend of his career but I think many other fighters took more and are ok, perhaps Ali would have developed Parkingsons if he had been a unknown lorry driver.
Having said that I hope Wayne won't fight on, he's taken a heel of a lot of punches, indeed I found the Harrison fight quite disturbing and sickening in that noone on Waynes side stepped in to save him from a horrible and prolonged beating. Ali's doctor Ferdie Patcheco said once something like if you have a drop of water hitting a iron bar for long enough eventually the iron bar will break... I think Wayne should get out now and those around him should know this.

Good post. There's not many posts on Ali that tell you something new.

[Goz]

I will not write off McCullough yet, he looked okay in the build up to the Harrison fight, albeit against poor oppotition and I do fear him mentioning Chi (who for me shares all the attributes that Harrison does).

McCullough could be competitive at either Feather or Super Bantam, but only if the Feathers were not particularly massive for their weight (Brodie vs McCullough would be interesting.

I still think there is major honours left in him at Super Bantam.

I agree with this post, I'm certain Wayne still has enough left to be competative at Super-Bantam. The odds were massively against him against Harrison.

[silkov]

I will not write off McCullough yet, he looked okay in the build up to the Harrison fight, albeit against poor oppotition and I do fear him mentioning Chi (who for me shares all the attributes that Harrison does).

McCullough could be competitive at either Feather or Super Bantam, but only if the Feathers were not particularly massive for their weight (Brodie vs McCullough would be interesting.

I still think there is major honours left in him at Super Bantam.

I agree with this post, I'm certain Wayne still has enough left to be competative at Super-Bantam. The odds were massively against him against Harrison.

Wayne still has the heart and conditioning to make himself competitive at a certain level just as Evander Holifield has had for the past 5 or 6 years.... but while the car is still running it's done a lot of mileage and needs to be driven carefully now otherwise the engine could go.
What I'm saying is that Waynes fighting style is not kind to fighters on the way down when the reflexes have slowed and the sparkle is gone.... he's going to be taking more and more punches now and his offence seems to have dulled rather alarmingly.... there is no snap in his punches anymore.
Wayne seems to be very fit and well in himself but his performances in the ring recently show definate signes of wear and tear and decline..... that is why this is the right time to get out.

[knockout artist]

I have read that that Ali was probably always suseptible to getting Parkinson's. Just like Johnny Owen, there was always so sort of "fault" there and if it Ali was an amateur now, probably wouldn't have been advised to turn pro.

Of course, getting punched around didn't help - but that is why he had the syndrome, and many fighters didn't.

The Thrilla in Manilla effected Joe Frazier aswell.

Ali showed no signs of the Syndrome after his first career came to an end in 1967 after a long amateur career and nine defences of his world heavyweight title. He was out three-and-half-years. If he was as susceptible to Parkinson's as you suggest, he would have got it then.
But, no, the symptons only began to show towards the end of his career when he was taking far too many head shots for his own good. Something had to give.

I know what you're saying Bennie... certainly the Holmes and Berbick fights didn't help Ali any but an interesting thing I've read about Ali was that some members of his family repotedly remember him sluring his speech a bit as far back as '70 before he came back from his 'exile'.
Also I have always been a little puzzled as to how Ali lost so much of his speed during his 3 and a half years out.... especially the legspeed and coordination.... I realise there is rust and age but he was only 28 when he came back and looking at his fights post '70 I'd say he'd lost about 30 to 35% of his former speed and reflexes.... the only reason he was able to continue to acheive what he did is that the remaining 70% was so brilliant plus Ali was able to adapt his style and call upon an enormous heart and great chin.... but I do wonder sometimes that perhaps even in the early 70s the parkingsons was already developing.... remember Micheal J fOX started to develop Parkingsons in his late 20s.... but managed to hide it from the world for over a decade.... Fox never boxed either.
There is also a theory that Parkinsons can be caused by inhaling paint or chemical fumes and Ali's father was a sign painter and there was paint and stuff all over the house Ali grew up in.
Certainly Ali took too many punches in the tailend of his career but I think many other fighters took more and are ok, perhaps Ali would have developed Parkingsons if he had been a unknown lorry driver.
Having said that I hope Wayne won't fight on, he's taken a heel of a lot of punches, indeed I found the Harrison fight quite disturbing and sickening in that noone on Waynes side stepped in to save him from a horrible and prolonged beating. Ali's doctor Ferdie Patcheco said once something like if you have a drop of water hitting a iron bar for long enough eventually the iron bar will break... I think Wayne should get out now and those around him should know this.

Ali's brother Rudy, who also boxed amatuer and pro has shown no signs of Parkinsons.

Personally, I feel Ali would have developed Parkinson whether he boxed or not. Certainly the punishement he took didnt help.

Who knows?

[stujones]

Ali showed no signs of the Syndrome after his first career came to an end in 1967 after a long amateur career and nine defences of his world heavyweight title. He was out three-and-half-years. If he was as susceptible to Parkinson's as you suggest, he would have got it then.
But, no, the symptons only began to show towards the end of his career when he was taking far too many head shots for his own good. Something had to give.

I know what you're saying Bennie... certainly the Holmes and Berbick fights didn't help Ali any but an interesting thing I've read about Ali was that some members of his family repotedly remember him sluring his speech a bit as far back as '70 before he came back from his 'exile'.
Also I have always been a little puzzled as to how Ali lost so much of his speed during his 3 and a half years out.... especially the legspeed and coordination.... I realise there is rust and age but he was only 28 when he came back and looking at his fights post '70 I'd say he'd lost about 30 to 35% of his former speed and reflexes.... the only reason he was able to continue to acheive what he did is that the remaining 70% was so brilliant plus Ali was able to adapt his style and call upon an enormous heart and great chin.... but I do wonder sometimes that perhaps even in the early 70s the parkingsons was already developing.... remember Micheal J fOX started to develop Parkingsons in his late 20s.... but managed to hide it from the world for over a decade.... Fox never boxed either.
There is also a theory that Parkinsons can be caused by inhaling paint or chemical fumes and Ali's father was a sign painter and there was paint and stuff all over the house Ali grew up in.
Certainly Ali took too many punches in the tailend of his career but I think many other fighters took more and are ok, perhaps Ali would have developed Parkingsons if he had been a unknown lorry driver.
Having said that I hope Wayne won't fight on, he's taken a heel of a lot of punches, indeed I found the Harrison fight quite disturbing and sickening in that noone on Waynes side stepped in to save him from a horrible and prolonged beating. Ali's doctor Ferdie Patcheco said once something like if you have a drop of water hitting a iron bar for long enough eventually the iron bar will break... I think Wayne should get out now and those around him should know this.

Ali's brother Rudy, who also boxed amatuer and pro has shown no signs of Parkinsons.

Personally, I feel Ali would have developed Parkinson whether he boxed or not. Certainly the punishement he took didnt help.

Who knows?

I got my information from a book on Sport Science, which discussed many famous athletes'. The two boxers mentioned where Ali and Carnera (talking about his disabilities). Can't remember the title off hand, but it is a good read - if your into the medical aspect of sport.

Ali, in Champions Forever (the best sporting video by a mile), stated that he had Parkinson Syndrome, not Parkinson disease (which I believe Michael J Fox has). I personally do not know the difference. Interestingly, in Champions forever, filmed in 1988, Ali did not shake at all and said "This is why I don't believe I have the serious condition doctors say I've got". Ali of course now shakes vigourously, which indicates how long it can take before the symptoms come through.

He made his statement about his illness in 1984, but it wasn't just dietary bills he was taking before his fight with Holmes, he was on tablets to control his Parkinson's back then.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Ali does indeed suffer from Parkinson's SYNDROME, not Parkinson's disease.

Parkinson's disease is not caused by trauma, it is a condition of unknown progeny, probably due to a genetic propensity.

Parkinson's syndrome can be caused by many different factors, including infections which lead to brain injury, trauma, poisons and chemicals.

'Parkinsonism' is a blanket term which covers a number of conditions which result in loss of muscle control and tremour, physical weakness and loss of co-ordination.

It is very hard to prove that there is a link between Ali's Parkinsonism and his boxing career, but even Ferdie Pachecho readily states that he believes Ali's ill health to be a direct or indirect result of the batterings he took.

However, you have to wonder how someone like Jake LaMotta or Archie Moore managed to live so well so long, Archie had WAY more fights than Ali, and took some ser ious beatings too.