Tommy Loughran W Jeff Smith my eye!‏ Forgotten great!!!

[slakka]

Forgotten greats
The Bayonne Globetrotter Jeff Smith
Tommy Loughran W Jeff Smith my eye!‏

Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
Thursday 8 March 1923 (Decatur Daily Review)
"Loughran won the newspaper decision"
(Decatur Daily Review)


Tommy Loughran W Jeff Smith NWS 10 10
Boxrec is a joke!
How in freekin hell would the Decatur IL pap have a clue as to what took place in Scranton Pa?? I have a large clip file of the Magnificent "Bayonne Globetrotter" Jeff Smith from Ring Mags Willis "Jersey" Jones who accurately described this encounter as a "masterpiece" victory by this forgotten great. Both the Philli Inquirer and the Phili Public Ledger had first hand accounts of this fight-dovetailing perfectly with "Jerseys."

[raylawpc]

Forgotten greats
The Bayonne Globetrotter Jeff Smith
Tommy Loughran W Jeff Smith my eye!‏

Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
Thursday 8 March 1923 (Decatur Daily Review)
"Loughran won the newspaper decision"
(Decatur Daily Review)


Tommy Loughran W Jeff Smith NWS 10 10
Boxrec is a joke!
How in freekin hell would the Decatur IL pap have a clue as to what took place in Scranton Pa?? I have a large clip file of the Magnificent "Bayonne Globetrotter" Jeff Smith from Ring Mags Willis "Jersey" Jones who accurately described this encounter as a "masterpiece" victory by this forgotten great. Both the Philli Inquirer and the Phili Public Ledger had first hand accounts of this fight-dovetailing perfectly with "Jerseys."

It's called a wire service report.

[slakka]

Correct, from Decater in re a fight in Scranton.
Anything else??

[klompton]

slakka is right. Ive been arguing against the use of wire reports for a long time. Furthermore Ive seen reports that state Smith won the fight. Smith was an impressive fighter. A complete fighter.

[raylawpc]

Correct, from Decater in re a fight in Scranton.
Anything else??

Yes. Just because it's a wire service report doesn't make it inaccurate.

[raylawpc]

slakka is right. Ive been arguing against the use of wire reports for a long time. Furthermore Ive seen reports that state Smith won the fight. Smith was an impressive fighter. A complete fighter.

Yes, I recall your distain for wire service reports from the "Gene Tunney's 'Loss' to Tommy Loughran" thread.

But I agree that boxrec should simply list a non-decision bout result as "ND" without any comment as to which fighter a particular newpaper reported as the winner. Ringside reporters can see things differently - why take one report over another?

[klompton]

I agree 100% that some concensus should be reached as to who won the fight, my point is simply that wire reports are, in my experience, often times inaccurate. For that reason, if you have no first hand source you shouldnt be posting it as a win or loss for any fighter. A wire report from decatur with no authors name above it as a first hand source should not be given credit. Its as simple as that for the very reason that you have no idea whatsoever where that report originated from.

[raylawpc]

And as I said in the other thread, wire service reports are not always inaccurate, especially if AP or Scripps or (later) UPI. Most come from ringside reports either written by a bureau writer or a report written by a member newspaper.

As I wrote on that thread: "By the 1920s, most daily newspapers belonged to either the AP or the Scripps organization. The real turning-point came around 1915 when AP inaugurated the teletype, which transmitted stories directly to printers over telegraph wires, and made it simple to reporduce wire service reports in the local newspaper. AP stories are written either (a) by a bureau writer in the location where the event occurred, or (b) taken as a rewrite of a story from the local newspaper. It’s been that way since before the 1920s. (AP started in the 1840s, but the teletype revolutionized things.) So, an AP or UPI account of an event should be as accurate as the report filed by a local newspaper."

[slakka]

I have 3 accounts of this fight. 2 from Tommy's hometown Philli paps, the 3rd from Ring Mag staffer Willis "Jersey" Jones.
All 3 dovetail perfectly. The magnificent "Bayonne Globetrotter" won this fight and he is a fighter worth discussing as I see its never been done anywhere online that I can locate.

[klompton]

So, an AP or UPI account of an event should be as accurate as the report filed by a local newspaper."

You can argue this point all you want but Slakka is illustrating exactly what Ive been talking about. Ive looked at THOUSANDS of first hand accounts and as Ive said before they are very often twisted and incorrect. Furthermore you are arguing for the validty of AP accounts and the like, an AP account and a wire account arent necessarily the same thing. Even if we suppose that AP accounts are as accurate as the original story (which they often arent) a wire report isnt necessarily derived from the AP, UPI, Scripps, or whatever. In fact, more often than not wire reports in the teens and 20s were NOT derived from the AP and rarely gave credit to who wrote the account or where it was derived from. Thats simply a fact and no amount of argument is going to change what Ive seen with my own eyes.

[raylawpc]

So, an AP or UPI account of an event should be as accurate as the report filed by a local newspaper."

You can argue this point all you want but Slakka is illustrating exactly what Ive been talking about. Ive looked at THOUSANDS of first hand accounts and as Ive said before they are very often twisted and incorrect. Furthermore you are arguing for the validty of AP accounts and the like, an AP account and a wire account arent necessarily the same thing. Even if we suppose that AP accounts are as accurate as the original story (which they often arent) a wire report isnt necessarily derived from the AP, UPI, Scripps, or whatever. In fact, more often than not wire reports in the teens and 20s were NOT derived from the AP and rarely gave credit to who wrote the account or where it was derived from. Thats simply a fact and no amount of argument is going to change what Ive seen with my own eyes.

Suit yourself. But a majority of the daily newspapers from the 20s belonged either to AP or Scripps (and, later UPI).

Of course, nobody should rely on one account. But I have no problems bringing wire service reports into the mix.