Jones and Calzaghe generation

[nobby_nobbins]

The only reason Calzaghe-Reid was close was because Joe broke his hand in about the 4th. Until then, Reid was just a punch bag. It was a heroic performance to continue and still win a fight against a dangerous opponent with only one good hand. Why rematch a guy you can beat with one hand?

[Autobarn]

The right man won. It was a good fight though, so a rematch would have been welcome.


Anyway, JC is fighting on the big stages. If RJJ and Hopkins can justify a big stage, that's why he's fighting them. Light heavy, super middle, is a bit of an old fighter's game right now.

[stujones]

Bernard Hopkins didn't have a big win until he was 36. To his credit, Joe beat Lacy when he was about 34, Kessler when he was 35 or 36...I just think long unfashionable reigning champs just keep on plodding along until the big names upcoming at the weight have to come to them. It's frustrating and stubborn, but Joe has reached a point where top fighters are calling him out.

Of course, I'd rather see Froch or Glen Johnson in there in terrific fights. But these are hard fights for less reward.

And had Bernard retired without facing Trinidad, Joppy, Holmes and Tarver he wouldn't have gone down in history either. He was P4P around 9 or 10 in 2001, even after beating Holmes and partially unifying the belts.

[glahn]

The way I see it, Calzaghe's ledger would look slightly better for having the likes of Mundine and Johnson on it, but only slightly. Mundine had been stopped by feather-fisted Ottke, and Johnson lost to him too (albeit controversially, as quite a few of Ottke's wins were in my book), so unless people were actually calling for those fights at the time then it smacks of revisionism to me.

Some of the other names people mention are more credible than the likes of Pudwill, obviously, but those fighters were often late substitutes. I'm pretty sure there were at least a couple of decent Calzaghe opponents who dropped out to be replaces with dross. The crap mandatories are hard to excuse, but then he wasn't in a position then to dump the title and go for big fights in the US at that point because those fights generally just weren't there.

[Autobarn]

Bernard Hopkins didn't have a big win until he was 36. To his credit, Joe beat Lacy when he was about 34, Kessler when he was 35 or 36...I just think long unfashionable reigning champs just keep on plodding along until the big names upcoming at the weight have to come to them. It's frustrating and stubborn, but Joe has reached a point where top fighters are calling him out.

Of course, I'd rather see Froch or Glen Johnson in there in terrific fights. But these are hard fights for less reward.

And had Bernard retired without facing Trinidad, Joppy, Holmes and Tarver he wouldn't have gone down in history either. He was P4P around 9 or 10 in 2001, even after beating Holmes and partially unifying the belts.

I think he proved he was a great middleweight during the Tito Trinidad fight. What I'm saying is, almost every big win for Hopkins was due to him waiting for a smaller man to move up - Tito in 2001, waits 3 or 4 years for the next big one, Oscar. Hopkins was getting criticised by the media and frustrating fans badly during this period. I don't think he needed Joppy, because Joppy was only "regular" WBA champ. But it was nice to see them settle that dispute.

Anyway, I think we agree that it would have been better for Joe to have tried to unify 168 earlier - it wouldn't have been such a drag following his career, but I don't think the 2 brilliant wins/events over Lacy and Kessler would have happened. He'd have had the less exciting Beyer and Ottke instead, I'd think. It would have been a different scene. And it would have made a lot of us happier had he followed Hopkins win with Pavlik. But I think such is the system right now, that it was more rewarding to go for a Jones fight. Very sad, but that's how it is right now. I think the ultimate gauge of how "right" it is will be the crowd it draws and the PPV #s. If they're disappointing, maybe boxing will try to develop the younger exciting names, rather than recycling the old ones.

After JC beats Jones, I want him to fight Johnson & Froch, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen.

[observer1]

Joe should have been in the mix with Tarver, Winky, Hopkins, RJJ, Jonhson, etc. years back.

Even now, he should be aiming for the likes of Pavlik etc. Not Old Men. He may aswell call out Michael Spinks from retirement. Hype it, i know the majority of the British media and public would buy into it (I kid you not).

[Autobarn]

Should be yeah but HBO make it worthwhile for him to fight Jones. And most of us suckers are probably paying for Setanta and staying up. And if Joe wanted to excuse fighting Pavlik, he could just point to Pavlik-Hopkins.

[hitman_hatton1]

The only reason Calzaghe-Reid was close was because Joe broke his hand in about the 4th. Until then, Reid was just a punch bag. It was a heroic performance to continue and still win a fight against a dangerous opponent with only one good hand. Why rematch a guy you can beat with one hand?

joe won it.

least calzaghe never drew with mercado.

[Syntax Error]

Much used phrase.

If we make a case that a fighter needed debut after say 1989 [Jones debut].

Who are the best three fighters of that generation?

Runners and riders......

Interesting question.

In my personal opinion, the best 3 fighters to turn pro from 1989 to date are:-

1) Floyd Mayweather

2) Lennox Lewis

3) Roy Jones Jr

[Autobarn]

I suppose I just really rate the Lacy and Kessler wins.

However, I admit, before that he was happy to be a WBO boy which just isn't on for a man of his talents.

[jeej]

Still no one has presented this mythical list of world class fighters Calzaghe could PLAUSIBLY have faced during his reign. .

Top Champions/Contenders that he didn't face: Jones (prime), Hopkins (prime - not sure either wanted it enough), Glen Johnson (dropped out 2 times), Otke, Beyer, Vanderpool, Mundine, Reid rematch (it was a controversal SD), Taylor, Pavlik, Froch, Echols, Mads Larson, Branco, Thomas Tate, James Butler, Winky Wright, Chad Dawson, Tarver

Mundine?! Yeah, really upset that fight never happened, lol.

[observer1]

Still no one has presented this mythical list of world class fighters Calzaghe could PLAUSIBLY have faced during his reign. .

Top Champions/Contenders that he didn't face: Jones (prime), Hopkins (prime - not sure either wanted it enough), Glen Johnson (dropped out 2 times), Otke, Beyer, Vanderpool, Mundine, Reid rematch (it was a controversal SD), Taylor, Pavlik, Froch, Echols, Mads Larson, Branco, Thomas Tate, James Butler, Winky Wright, Chad Dawson, Tarver

Mundine?! Yeah, really upset that fight never happened, lol.

It's just one of many that should have happened.

[jeej]

Well maybe I'm just overly critical of Mr Mundine, but I really don't rate him much.

[Autobarn]

He doesn't seem to have much fight in him, but I'll be buggered if his style wouldn't give Joe fits.