Leonard V hagler

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 25 May 2004, 12:18

didn`t leonard throw some flashy bolo punches in that round?
its been a while since i last seen it but there was one particular round where he was under pressure then he just cut loose with dazzling combo`s.
btw i think hagler won.

McGuigan · Post by **McGuigan** » 25 May 2004, 12:21

headhunter wrote:didn`t leonard throw some flashy bolo punches in that round?
its been a while since i last seen it but there was one particular round where he was under pressure then he just cut loose with dazzling combo`s.
btw i think hagler won.

Threw a bolo in about the fourth...threw a combo in the 9th when under pressure and about a twenty punch combo in the last.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 25 May 2004, 12:22

I always thought Leonard nicked the decision by a round or two. Haven't watched it for a good few years. Will never forget the shock when I heard the result, it wasn't broadcast live in the UK but was shown the following evening, I think. Shows the 'glory days' of terrestrial tv weren't as great as we might recall!

Round 9 of that fight was one of my favourite of all time, more for the significance of the 20 or so second period when Hagler trapped Leonard in a corner and began swing away, Leonard looked tired and you finally thought the indestrucible Hagler was getting to him.

But Leonard punched his way out of the corner with a blistering flurry actually rocking Hagler which was amazing as SRL had basically been on the backfoot for the entire fight. That showed the heart of a champion in my opinion and won Leonard the fight.

It was always my memory that Hagler retired in the aftermath of the fight and stuck to it, I have no idea what went on behind closed doors in terms of chasing a rematch.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 25 May 2004, 12:27

Leonard had a number of closed doors 12 round fights in preparation for the Hagler clash. As near to real conditions as he could get.
One of the guys he "fought" was Anthony "Two Gun" Fletcher - now on Death Row.

I was always a Hagler fan ( impossible not to be really ) and I thought a comebacking Leonard had next to no chance of pulling it off.
But in my eyes Ray won that fight.

McGuigan · Post by **McGuigan** » 25 May 2004, 12:29

MightyWarrior wrote:Leonard had a number of closed doors 12 round fights in preparation for the Hagler clash. As near to real conditions as he could get.
One of the guys he "fought" was Anthony "Two Gun" Fletcher - now on Death Row.

I was always a Hagler fan ( impossible not to be really ) and I thought a comebacking Leonard had next to no chance of pulling it off.
But in my eyes Ray won that fight.

I had a large wager on him at 11/4. Although looking back at it now I must have been mad.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 May 2004, 12:32

Goz wrote:I always thought Leonard nicked the decision by a round or two. Haven't watched it for a good few years. Will never forget the shock when I heard the result, it wasn't broadcast live in the UK but was shown the following evening, I think. Shows the 'glory days' of terrestrial tv weren't as great as we might recall!

Round 9 of that fight was one of my favourite of all time, more for the significance of the 20 or so second period when Hagler trapped Leonard in a corner and began swing away, Leonard looked tired and you finally thought the indestrucible Hagler was getting to him.

But Leonard punched his way out of the corner with a blistering flurry actually rocking Hagler which was amazing as SRL had basically been on the backfoot for the entire fight. That showed the heart of a champion in my opinion and won Leonard the fight.

It was always my memory that Hagler retired in the aftermath of the fight and stuck to it, I have no idea what went on behind closed doors in terms of chasing a rematch.

The Mexican judge, controversially, gave that round nine to Leonard. The judge was a late replacement for Britain's Harry Gibbs, after Hagler's camp objected to Gibbs. They felt a British judge would lean towards the boxing skills of Leonard and wanted a judge who they felt would favour their man's aggression. But the Mexican judge ended up giving 10 of the 12 rounds to Leonard.
Poor Marvin. Nothing went right for him in that fight.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 25 May 2004, 12:37

McGuigan wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Leonard had a number of closed doors 12 round fights in preparation for the Hagler clash. As near to real conditions as he could get.
One of the guys he "fought" was Anthony "Two Gun" Fletcher - now on Death Row.

I was always a Hagler fan ( impossible not to be really ) and I thought a comebacking Leonard had next to no chance of pulling it off.
But in my eyes Ray won that fight.
I had a large wager on him at 11/4. Although looking back at it now I must have been mad.

Nice bet

Reminds me of a bloke, not into boxing, who told me he'd put a large bet on Honeyghan to beat Curry.
Of course I told him he was stark raving mad and proceeded to explain to him how there was absolutely no way Lloyd could win....

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 25 May 2004, 12:38

bennie wrote:
Goz wrote:I always thought Leonard nicked the decision by a round or two. Haven't watched it for a good few years. Will never forget the shock when I heard the result, it wasn't broadcast live in the UK but was shown the following evening, I think. Shows the 'glory days' of terrestrial tv weren't as great as we might recall!

Round 9 of that fight was one of my favourite of all time, more for the significance of the 20 or so second period when Hagler trapped Leonard in a corner and began swing away, Leonard looked tired and you finally thought the indestrucible Hagler was getting to him.

But Leonard punched his way out of the corner with a blistering flurry actually rocking Hagler which was amazing as SRL had basically been on the backfoot for the entire fight. That showed the heart of a champion in my opinion and won Leonard the fight.

It was always my memory that Hagler retired in the aftermath of the fight and stuck to it, I have no idea what went on behind closed doors in terms of chasing a rematch.
The Mexican judge, controversially, gave that round nine to Leonard. The judge was a late replacement for Britain's Harry Gibbs, after Hagler's camp objected to Gibbs. They felt a British judge would lean towards the boxing skills of Leonard and wanted a judge who they felt would favour their man's aggression. But the Mexican judge ended up giving 10 of the 12 rounds to Leonard.
Poor Marvin. Nothing went right for him in that fight.

Who was the judge, Mexican I think, who scored about 10 rounds even?
I thought it was this fight, but maybe not.

McGuigan · Post by **McGuigan** » 25 May 2004, 12:40

MightyWarrior wrote:
McGuigan wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Leonard had a number of closed doors 12 round fights in preparation for the Hagler clash. As near to real conditions as he could get.
One of the guys he "fought" was Anthony "Two Gun" Fletcher - now on Death Row.

I was always a Hagler fan ( impossible not to be really ) and I thought a comebacking Leonard had next to no chance of pulling it off.
But in my eyes Ray won that fight.
I had a large wager on him at 11/4. Although looking back at it now I must have been mad.
Nice bet

Reminds me of a bloke, not into boxing, who told me he'd put a large bet on Honeyghan to beat Curry.
Of course I told him he was stark raving mad and proceeded to explain to him how there was absolutely no way Lloyd could win....

Not as nice as Hagler to beat hearns at 33/1 and lewis to be Razor ruddock round 2 at 50/1.....

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 May 2004, 12:43

I can't recall the Mexican's name now (Jo Guerra or something), but he scored 118-110 to Leonard.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 25 May 2004, 12:49

McGuigan wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:
McGuigan wrote: I had a large wager on him at 11/4. Although looking back at it now I must have been mad.
Nice bet

Reminds me of a bloke, not into boxing, who told me he'd put a large bet on Honeyghan to beat Curry.
Of course I told him he was stark raving mad and proceeded to explain to him how there was absolutely no way Lloyd could win....
Not as nice as Hagler to beat hearns at 33/1 and lewis to be Razor ruddock round 2 at 50/1.....

hagler to beat hearns 33-1? was that the price for the third round stoppage mac.

McGuigan · Post by **McGuigan** » 25 May 2004, 12:50

headhunter wrote:
McGuigan wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote: Nice bet

Reminds me of a bloke, not into boxing, who told me he'd put a large bet on Honeyghan to beat Curry.
Of course I told him he was stark raving mad and proceeded to explain to him how there was absolutely no way Lloyd could win....
Not as nice as Hagler to beat hearns at 33/1 and lewis to be Razor ruddock round 2 at 50/1.....
hagler to beat hearns 33-1? was that the price for the third round stoppage mac.

That was the price. Wouldnt get it these days.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 May 2004, 12:59

Yes, Hearns was the bookies' favourite that fight.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 25 May 2004, 13:56

i thought hagler had won the fight but to be honest for me hagler is the man always will be so it could be just me being a bit blinkered, but i dont think so. Ray Leonard i could never stand.. manufactured fighter, golden boy, all round too good to be true biggest star of the 1976 olympic team, fighting with pics of his children in his boots. i could just never take to him and incidently i would never dream of using "sugar" before Ray Leonards name. thats for Ray Robinson only, the genuine Sugar Ray. Leonard comes nowhere near him in my estimation.

The Hagler Hearns fight is undoubtedly the best fight ever. 3 rounds of boxing brilliance from both fighters, Hagler rocked, Hearns rocked, pure boxing skills, switch fighting, toe to toe. if u never watch any other fight in your life, make sure you watch this one.

ive met hagler a few times here and there and hes still one mean dude, scary as fornicate.. reckon i could take him though!!

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 25 May 2004, 14:48

I had Hagler a 6-4-2 winner.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 25 May 2004, 14:56

bennie wrote:
J wrote:HAGlER RETIRED IMMIEDIATELY AFTER THE FIGHT.
So a rematch was never an option.

Agree though i thought leonard by 2.
I thought Hagler stuck around for a while, but eventually gave up chasing a rematch about a year after the fight.

This is partially correct, Hagler didn't retire immediately (he officially retired in 1988). However, I can't really remember HAGLER demanding a rematch. I think he hummed and haad ala Lennox Lewis.

I'm not sure of this, but I think Hagler was officially a world champion untill 1988.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 25 May 2004, 17:08

Stu, it nearly killed Hagler when he didn't get a rematch. He went to hell and back when he didn't get a rematch. He didn't uhm and aah. That was Leonard pissing him around.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 25 May 2004, 18:52

bennie wrote:Stu, it nearly killed Hagler when he didn't get a rematch. He went to hell and back when he didn't get a rematch. He didn't uhm and aah. That was Leonard pissing him around.

yeah leonard f*cked off for a year or so and made out he had retired

when all the time the cheeky monkey was planning on coming back at a weight up or should that be 2 weights up

by the way i thought leonard by 1 pt against hagler

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 26 May 2004, 05:45

bennie wrote:I can't recall the Mexican's name now (Jo Guerra or something), but he scored 118-110 to Leonard.

Proof if you ever needed it that many boxing judges haven't got a clue..

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 26 May 2004, 07:14

Hagler screwed up by giving away the first two rounds if you ask me. Leonard was poetry in motion that night and Hagler was just a tad too slow and had trouble getting off. Leonard's movement in the first three rounds is amazing for someone who'd not had a fight in three years. Hagler didn't go to the body enough and tried to box smart instead of just putting total pressure on Leonard to tire him out. He was outboxed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 May 2004, 07:25

Hagler went fornicating nuts and started beating his wife as I recall, he found it very hard to deal with not being champ any more, and I hated Leonard for refusing to give him a rematch.

Leonard pulled a really pudendum like move as i recall.

He said something along the lines of....."I'll give Marvin a rematch if he admits that he lost that first fight."

He knew hell would freeze over before that would happen, and so put Marvin in an awful place where he was the author of his own demise.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 26 May 2004, 07:42

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Hagler screwed up by giving away the first two rounds if you ask me. Leonard was poetry in motion that night and Hagler was just a tad too slow and had trouble getting off. Leonard's movement in the first three rounds is amazing for someone who'd not had a fight in three years. Hagler didn't go to the body enough and tried to box smart instead of just putting total pressure on Leonard to tire him out. He was outboxed.

Hagler fucked about switch hitting. He tried to be the showman. He should have stuck to his motto of destruct and destroy. Instead he tried to be like Leonard. I think he craved the stardom.

Still, having said that I had Hagler winning 115-113

McGuigan · Post by **McGuigan** » 26 May 2004, 07:49

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Hagler screwed up by giving away the first two rounds if you ask me. Leonard was poetry in motion that night and Hagler was just a tad too slow and had trouble getting off. Leonard's movement in the first three rounds is amazing for someone who'd not had a fight in three years. Hagler didn't go to the body enough and tried to box smart instead of just putting total pressure on Leonard to tire him out. He was outboxed.

Exactly

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 26 May 2004, 12:11

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Leonard's movement in the first three rounds is amazing for someone who'd not had a fight in three years..

Not taking anything away from Ray Leonard but I think I'm right in saying that Ray had about 3 'fights' behind closed doors before facing Hagler. Apparently they didn't used headguards or oversized gloves and went 10/12 rounds etc.

I think but am not sure Quincy Taylor and Frank Fletcher may have been in the opposite corner.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 26 May 2004, 13:22

KOJOE90 wrote:
DIRT SUGAR wrote:Leonard's movement in the first three rounds is amazing for someone who'd not had a fight in three years..
Not taking anything away from Ray Leonard but I think I'm right in saying that Ray had about 3 'fights' behind closed doors before facing Hagler. Apparently they didn't used headguards or oversized gloves and went 10/12 rounds etc.

I think but am not sure Quincy Taylor and Frank Fletcher may have been in the opposite corner.

Yeah, but Taylor put him down and in Leonard's final public workout for the fight he looked absolutely awful (deliberately so he claimed later, to con Hagler into complacency). Leonard's win over Hagler is the greatest comeback win of all time.
Incidentally, Leonard started plotting for the 1987 fight in November 1983 when Hagler struggled to outpoint little Roberto Duran (Duran was ahead on points after 13 rounds). Duran told Leonard from the ring he would beat Hagler.
Leonard studied Duran's movement in the fight and used the same movement in beating Hagler.