Vivian Harris/Ivan Robinson scoring

[Eric the Viking]

Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but I was just looking at Harris' record and reminded of the bizarre scoring in his fight vs. Robinson by the BoxRec editor's note. Here is a quote about the fight (with all 3 scores, which the BoxRecord does not list):

"On August 11, 2000, Harris dominated Ivan Robinson, winning on all three judges scorecards, but was forced to accept a draw because of New Jersey's consensus scoring system (D 10). Although Harris led by the scores of 95-94, 95-93, and 96-93, the consensus scoring system added up to a 94-94 draw. Most ringside observers believed that Harris won the bout. ESPN2's 'Friday Night Fights' color commentator Teddy Atlas scored the bout in favor of Harris by the wide margin of 97-92."

Could someone explain to me how winning on all three cards adds up to a draw? If (say) 2 judges had Harris narrowly ahead and the third had Robinson winning by a wider margin, then I could see the 3 scories adding up to a draw, but this "consensus scoring" is a misnomer here: if you win on all 3 judges' cards, then the consensus is a clear win. What kind of funny "math" was used here?

[RiddickBowe]

Consensus scoring, I believe, means that each round is given to one fighter or another based on the consensus of the three judges. For instance, if Judge A gave Harris Round 1 by a score of 10-9, Judge B by a score of 10-9, but Judge C gave it to Robinson by a score of 10-9, the round would go to Harris. The only scorecard that counts in that instance is the "consensus" scorecard, which gave the round to Harris. The three judges cards, in and of themselves, don't determine the winner.

[Eric the Viking]

Thanks, RB.

Does anyone have the 3 judges' round-by-round for this fight?

[Blue]

Correct, under that system, a fighter who wins on two of the three judges' scorecards automatically wins the round. The third score is thrown out. At the end of the fight, only the judges whose scores counted in each round are used to compute the final score.
Here’s a snip of an article Chris Thorne of the Newark Star-Ledger wrote on 08/13/00

It won't cause an outcry like the first Lennox Lewis-Evander Holyfield fight, but Friday night's draw between Vivian Harris and Ivan Robinson in Atlantic City has brought attention to New Jersey's majority scoring system.
For those who have forgotten or never even knew about the system, it uses the points accumulated on the three judges' scorecards with a master scorecard tallying up the points for each round and awarding each round to one fighter.
For example, Harris won six rounds on the master scorecard to four for Robinson. But Robinson won the third round by a 10-8 score and Harris lost a point in the eighth round for losing his mouthpiece for the fourth time in the fight at the Tropicana.
Those two points evened the final master scorecard at 94-94, which was the only score announced at the end of the fight. Harris would have won the fight by one point (95-94) if he wasn't penalized for the mouthpiece.
Under the system used by the other states, Harris would have won a majority decision even with the loss of a point. Al DeVito had Harris winning, 94-93, and Luis Rivera had him ahead, 95-93. Debra Barnes had it even, 94-94.

The system was instituted in 1999, in the wake of the controversial draw between heavyweights Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield. Had the old "10-point must" scoring system been in place, Harris would have won a unanimous decision.

Also, Philadelphia Daily News Sports Writer Bernard Fernandez on Saturday, August 12, 2000 wrote
{SniP}
Harris (16-1-1, 13 KOs) landed 310 of 856 punches, according to CompuBox tabulations, compared with 245 of 699 for Robinson (29-4-1, 11 KOs), the 29-year-old veteran from Nicetown. Advantage, Harris. But Robinson scored the bout's only knockdown, on a chopping right hand in the third round, and he picked up another point in the eighth when referee Steve Smoger penalized Harris for spitting out his mouthpiece for the fourth time. Advantage, Robinson.

I have never seen the individual scorecards posted anywhere.

[Eric the Viking]

Al DeVito had Harris winning, 94-93, and Luis Rivera had him ahead, 95-93. Debra Barnes had it even, 94-94.

Those scores differ from the ones in the article I quoted in my initial post - if the 2-for-Harris, 1-even are correct, then a draw seems less unfair than had all 3 judges had Harris ahead. But, several other sources I found online also say Harris was ahead on ALL THREE cards:

http://www.boxingtimes.com/analyses/200 ... inson.html

"The upset Harris was ahead on all 3 judges scorecards, and using the old 10 point must system, he would have rightfully won a 10 round unanimous decision."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 62548.html

"Anyone who previously favored consensus scoring undoubtedly would be opposed to it today after watching Friday's fight between Vivian Harris and Ivan Robinson on ESPN2. Under the usual scoring system, Harris would have received a unanimous decision because judges Debra Barnes, Al DeVito and Luis Rivera all had it for Harris -- 95-94, 95-93 and 96-93, respectively."


I'd still love to see the individual judges' cards, so if anyone know those scores, please post them and let us know where you got them.