Pre-war greats and not so greats

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 28 May 2004, 06:12

Not sure if this has been covered before. Who are the REAL greats pre-1939 and who have been raised to false levels by the trick of history?

One for the train spotters maybe.

I like Benny Leonard but think Jack Dempsey may have been done a few favours.

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 28 May 2004, 06:43

What did Jack do to help the Ghetto Wizard, Ian?

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 28 May 2004, 07:45

No, Ulysses, I mean Jack might have been done a few favours by history.

Leonard was a fighter who made boxing modern, if you know what I mean and isn't often mentioned in all time great lists.

I think Dempsey's celebrity has put a glister on his achievements in the eyes of fight fans today.

Don't know of any relationship between the two - just my badly worded sentence!

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 28 May 2004, 08:40

I gotcha, I agree to a point, there is a romanticised view of Dempsey, but equally when people talk about the Harry Wills situation and how Jack 'ducked' him they almost automatically feel that Wills would've beaten Dempsey beacuse he was 'ducked'. Don't forget that Dempsey did sign for this fight!
I like Les Darcy alot, he was a fighter that was ahead of his time, he had already knocked out one of the leading middleweights (Eddie McGoorty) when he was 19 years old!

His life came to a tragic end when he died aged 21 after months of persecution. He died of pneumonia.
Barney Ross is another who boxed in a 'modern' style compared to his peers. A great fighter with a great chin.

J · Post by J » 28 May 2004, 09:52

interesting guys, my knowledge istn really up to I must confess other than his involvement in the night of the long count, but you arent the first Ive heard to say Dempsey was overated.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 28 May 2004, 12:56

good question and one i`d have to ponder but fighters that spring to mind that probably deserve their props are.....

harry greb
jimmy wilde
mickey walker
henry armstrong

there`s quite a few to be honest but regarding overrating i reckon a lot of heavyweights are slightly overrated by history and not just the pre wwII ones either.

p.s darcy also beat rated u.s fighters george clabby and ex champ george chip.(as well as smith)

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 28 May 2004, 13:04

Joe Gans (great)

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 May 2004, 13:08

Abe Attell another great.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 28 May 2004, 13:15

Gene Tunney
Sam Langford
Barney Ross
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Stanley Ketchel
Jackie Berg
Ted Lewis
Maxxy Schmelling
Georges Carpentier

Plus more...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 28 May 2004, 13:32

Every 30 years or so, a fighter comes along who lifts the game to a new level and inspires generations of fighters to emulate him in doing so. Cassius Clay, for example, as a promising amateur in the Fifties, used to sit at home watching 'Friday Night Fights' and knew he was faster than those on screen. Without Ali, there would be no Sugar Ray Leonard or countless other 'movers'.
Without Marvin Hagler, there would be no Naseem Hamed and countless other switch-hitters. Without Jack Dempsey, there would be no Joe Louis.
Dempsey was the master of the short hook. You will have all seen the knockout he scored towards the end of his career over Jack Sharkey. 'The Boston Gob' was hit below the belt, turned to complain to the referee, and was tagged with a short left hook which looked nothing. Yet it lifted Sharkey completely off his feet and dumped him on the canvas for the count. Now, who comes along after Dempsey? The great Joe Louis. His forte was...the short hook. Joe's punches were so compact they only needed to travel six inches to take an opponent out. He was clearly inspired by Dempsey, modelled on Dempsey and thus a product of the Dempsey generation.
Dempsey was a groundbreaking fighters all ways. He came along at a time when most fighters were struggling to adapt to shorter 15-round distances. Jess Willard had won the world heavyweight title by wearing down Jack Johnson over 26 rounds. Willard was built for the long fight: big and strong and durable and slow. Dempsey was just the opposite: quick and powerful and hungry and light. It didn't matter he was so much smaller than Willard. He knew he could fight flat out for 15-rounds and came out with all guns blazing.
He tore Willard apart. The prizefighter legacy, too. A new era had dawned.