Taylor has already said he won't !

[Maxime]

Bute is EXACTLY who he said he is targeting.

Bute is the easier option.

Doesn't anyone want to prove themselves anymore?

Bute has been a champion for longer and he's fought and beat the better opposition. How is Bute the "easier" option compare to Froch? The only reason Taylor might end up fighting Bute instead of Froch is because he is a bigger name in the USA and he bring more money to the table.

[DavidPayne]

Taylor's ready to be taken.

I don't think he's ready for a superfight. He would have no chance up at light heavy. Reckon his options are limited to IBF champ Bute and WBC champ (Froch-Pascal winner).

Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? all these alphabet titles are totally worthless now a days. The reason we are seeing all these big fights (Hatton - Floyd, Calzaghe - Hopkins, etc) is because all the best fighters are finally cutting through the alphabet "mandatory challengers" bollocks and giving up their belts to make the big fights.



Frotch winning the WBC belt doesn't make him any more marketable or important in anyones eyes these days.

If anyone here thinks this is Frotch's big breakthrough fight, then they are going to be sorely disappointed

Most of those big fights are because HBO are putting boxing memorabilia on as main-events as the know zip about boxing beyond the circuit regulars of the last ten years.

I know Man Utd, Ars, Chel, Liverpool are the best four teams doesn't mean I not prefer Spurs v Man City or Villa v Doncaster Rovers in the cup now and then.

[Mensa07]

Hopkins, Wright, Pavlik = pampered.

[Autobarn]

Taylor's ready to be taken.

I don't think he's ready for a superfight. He would have no chance up at light heavy. Reckon his options are limited to IBF champ Bute and WBC champ (Froch-Pascal winner).

Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? all these alphabet titles are totally worthless now a days. The reason we are seeing all these big fights (Hatton - Floyd, Calzaghe - Hopkins, etc) is because all the best fighters are finally cutting through the alphabet "mandatory challengers" bollocks and giving up their belts to make the big fights.



Frotch winning the WBC belt doesn't make him any more marketable or important in anyones eyes these days.

If anyone here thinks this is Frotch's big breakthrough fight, then they are going to be sorely disappointed

Don't make me laugh Galaxy.

The big fights? Calzaghe-Jones, Calzaghe-Hopkins? One was a whupping of a shot man with lots of embarrassing showboating, the other was a near complete spazz-up vs a well preserved defensive fighter/clutch artist.

Mandatory shit? So you probably don't care that the joke WBO only made Calzaghe fight only one man - Mario "Mr Universum" Veit! Champions should have to meet their top contenders, not just do what they want. Sometimes a champ vs a good challenger can be a terrific fight.

If it works out for Froch, he could be in fights with Pascal AND Taylor consecutively, and after that the Murat-Johnson winner which isn't a bad one. That compares rather well to Eubank (drained, inactive but dangerous) and Branco Sobot, no?

If you can see no potential in Froch - big puncher, exciting, personable - then more fool you. Pascal fight has a prime time ITV audience, and a Taylor mandatory would be on HBO - sure, that would make no difference. Even if he scores, say, impressive KOs!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Taylor's ready to be taken.

I don't think he's ready for a superfight. He would have no chance up at light heavy. Reckon his options are limited to IBF champ Bute and WBC champ (Froch-Pascal winner).

Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? all these alphabet titles are totally worthless now a days. The reason we are seeing all these big fights (Hatton - Floyd, Calzaghe - Hopkins, etc) is because all the best fighters are finally cutting through the alphabet "mandatory challengers" bollocks and giving up their belts to make the big fights.



Frotch winning the WBC belt doesn't make him any more marketable or important in anyones eyes these days.

If anyone here thinks this is Frotch's big breakthrough fight, then they are going to be sorely disappointed

Don't make me laugh Galaxy.

The big fights? Calzaghe-Jones, Calzaghe-Hopkins? One was a whupping of a shot man with lots of embarrassing showboating, the other was a near complete spazz-up vs a well preserved defensive fighter/clutch artist.

Mandatory shit? So you probably don't care that the joke WBO only made Calzaghe fight only one man - Mario "Mr Universum" Veit! Champions should have to meet their top contenders, not just do what they want. Sometimes a champ vs a good challenger can be a terrific fight.

If it works out for Froch, he could be in fights with Pascal AND Taylor consecutively, and after that the Murat-Johnson winner which isn't a bad one. That compares rather well to Eubank (drained, inactive but dangerous) and Branco Sobot, no?

If you can see no potential in Froch - big puncher, exciting, personable - then more fool you. Pascal fight has a prime time ITV audience, and a Taylor mandatory would be on HBO - sure, that would make no difference. Even if he scores, say, impressive KOs!

Quite right mate - mandatories are a good thing, it's just that the sanctioning bodies need to make the right people mandatories. Fights rarely make it to purse bids, because the champs are allowed soft fights against 'opponents' who turn up for a payday with sod all chance of winning.

[DG.]

Bute is EXACTLY who he said he is targeting.

Bute is the easier option.

Doesn't anyone want to prove themselves anymore?

Bute has been a champion for longer and he's fought and beat the better opposition. How is Bute the "easier" option compare to Froch? The only reason Taylor might end up fighting Bute instead of Froch is because he is a bigger name in the USA and he bring more money to the table.

Froch has a granite chin (so far) and a big punch = better then Bute who was technically stopped the other night.

AND

Taylor built hs reputation on fighting light middles.

FACT.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Taylor's ready to be taken.

I don't think he's ready for a superfight. He would have no chance up at light heavy. Reckon his options are limited to IBF champ Bute and WBC champ (Froch-Pascal winner).

Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? all these alphabet titles are totally worthless now a days. The reason we are seeing all these big fights (Hatton - Floyd, Calzaghe - Hopkins, etc) is because all the best fighters are finally cutting through the alphabet "mandatory challengers" bollocks and giving up their belts to make the big fights.



Frotch winning the WBC belt doesn't make him any more marketable or important in anyones eyes these days.

If anyone here thinks this is Frotch's big breakthrough fight, then they are going to be sorely disappointed

Most of those big fights are because HBO are putting boxing memorabilia on as main-events as the know zip about boxing beyond the circuit regulars of the last ten years.

I know Man Utd, Ars, Chel, Liverpool are the best four teams doesn't mean I not prefer Spurs v Man City or Villa v Doncaster Rovers in the cup now and then.

Jones - Trinidad, yes that was pure memorabilia, but what else would you say was?

Im not saying the only matches that matter are between the elite fighters, but i am saying that holding the WBC, or any other belt means a lot, lot less than it did 5 years ago

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Don't make me laugh Galaxy.

he he, here we go, as ever you posts are dreadfully easy to pick apart as you are completely unable to grasp basic concepts

The big fights? Calzaghe-Jones, Calzaghe-Hopkins? One was a whupping of a shot man with lots of embarrassing showboating, the other was a near complete spazz-up vs a well preserved defensive fighter/clutch artist.

Uh huh, Hopkins was a horrible fight, and the Jones was was nothing better than quite good, but they both sold over 10,000 tickets and did 200,000 + on PPV

This is what constitutes big fight, not what the fight turned out like

ok, next

Mandatory shit? So you probably don't care that the joke WBO only made Calzaghe fight only one man - Mario "Mr Universum" Veit! Champions should have to meet their top contenders, not just do what they want. Sometimes a champ vs a good challenger can be a terrific fight.

ok, whats your point? Mandatory challengers are a good thing, even tho they are hardly ever enforced? And the only example you can give is Mario Veit?

eh?

We all accept the alphabet boys are bogus and corrupt? (And the US District Attorney sure does) so how on earth is empowering them a "good thing"?

If it works out for Froch, he could be in fights with Pascal AND Taylor consecutively, and after that the Murat-Johnson winner which isn't a bad one. That compares rather well to Eubank (drained, inactive but dangerous) and Branco Sobot, no?

Again, you miss the point. Taylor isnt interested in the WBC belt, its been diminished greatly in recent years. He isnt interested in Carl Frotch until Frotch brings some money to the table, beating Pascal and taking the belt doesn't change that, not these days.

Branco and Sobot were dreadful fights for a world title, and were sanctioned by the WBO, which kinda proves my point...... no?

Eubank?

*sighs*

If you can see no potential in Froch - big puncher, exciting, personable - then more fool you. Pascal fight has a prime time ITV audience, and a Taylor mandatory would be on HBO - sure, that would make no difference. Even if he scores, say, impressive KOs!

Potential?

Froch is 31 years old...

And he isnt going to be fighting Taylor on HBO because neither Taylor not HBO are interested


These are not difficult things to understand...

[tonyevs]

I got to agree, (if he) wins the wbc belt it won`t make a great deal in the wider picture of things, much the same as it didn`t when Witter finally got his hands on the belt.

Just like Witter, I see Froch being side stepped as too much risk with too little reward due to his low profile outside of the UK.

[observer1]

Anyone else find it ironic it's the American doing the ducking this time?

Not seen that in a while, what with Modern Day British "Legends"

[Maxime]

Bute is EXACTLY who he said he is targeting.

Bute is the easier option.

Doesn't anyone want to prove themselves anymore?

Bute has been a champion for longer and he's fought and beat the better opposition. How is Bute the "easier" option compare to Froch? The only reason Taylor might end up fighting Bute instead of Froch is because he is a bigger name in the USA and he bring more money to the table.

Froch has a granite chin (so far) and a big punch = better then Bute who was technically stopped the other night.

AND

Taylor built hs reputation on fighting light middles.

FACT.

A good chin and a big punch does not make up for a shitty resume.

[Gray-Fox]

Anyone else find it ironic it's the American doing the ducking this time?

Not seen that in a while, what with Modern Day British "Legends"

Americans *usually* "duck" (although it makes sense business wise to me) because they have nothing to gain from an English fighter. English fighters usually duck because they are scared of realising that they're not world or p4p class. hence why Joe Calzaghe never fought an ATG until 2008.

[Autobarn]

Galaxy, anyone can use the quote function to systematically try to break down their opponents.

Froch has had a slow career, but he has an exciting style and some personality. There was the reent knee injury and the Inkin pullouts. His opportunity has come. Let's see what he makes of it. An exciting KO could really advance his career, and doing it on ITV won't do any harm.

Taylor IS interested in the WBC title, and he's also interested in Bute's IBF title. His promoter said a Calzaghe fight is over their heads right now, so Taylor's going for a title. Taylor could be Froch's key to a date on HBO and if he delivers, then all is well. Taylor fought Lacy for easy money, and now it's title time. Let's come back to this thread when Taylor challenges for a title.

Taylor is the WBC mandatory, and he could well get a shot. Champions should fight their contenders, proper contenders, otherwise what is the point at the end of the day? Obviously the alphabet boys can be a bit of a joke - especially the WBO and IBF - but in Froch's case, he will have plenty of good challengers.

Those Calzaghe fights did qualify as events, because right now, boxing in the higher divisions is just about recycling names. The fights didn't do as well as they were supposed to, 200,000 PPVs is not a lot for "two legends" (Jc & RJJ), Calzaghe-Hopkins was not PPV, and I think we've already agreed the money isn't going to be available for those kind of fights much longer...Let's see what the younger, fresher fighters can do. Give them a chance FFS. If they cock it up, fair enough. Let's say Froch does well, there's Arthur Abraham moving up from 160 soon, there's Kessler holding the WBA strap (yes, beaten by Calzaghe, but has already come back well), lots of decetn bruisers at 168 (Zuniga, Bika, Miranda, Murat), there's Anre Dirrell who has Showtime interested.

Branco Sobot (not "Branco and Sobot") was a bad challenger. Was he a mandatory, or a hand picked? Hand picked of course. My point is that not being forced to fight good challengers is a bad. I figured you were ok with this, because of the lack of regulation as to who a champ fights. Allowing "champs" to fight 13 no-hopers and then cash in with bum "superfights" at the end. No need to twist things - is it you who cannot grasp basic concepts?

[Autobarn]

I know this doesn't exactly prove that Taylor will fight for the WBC title, but the article "Jermain Taylor Eyes Froch-Pascal Winner" http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=17218 certainly shows a bit of promise. More so that last week's "Taylor Wants to Fight Bute for the IBF belt. He's already considered fighting for 2 different belts. There seems to be a bit of a misconception that Taylor in no way wants to fight for world titles, because he's too big somehow. Taylor is about 30, doesn't have massive upside exactly, has some decent, disuputed wins but had his arse kicked twice by Paclik and was dropped by Lacy whom he beat but looked ordinary against. If he can fight the Florida whippig boy (Lacy) on HBO, an alphabet title vs an unbeaten puncher (Froch, Bute?) would likely also qualify.

Doubt we will see too much more of Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Tarver; Glen Johnson is low profile, fought on a Tuesday a few weeks ago off TV. There will be a gap that needs filling. HBO isn't the only broadcaster, there's Showtime as well who are building Andre Dirrell. Dirrell has just spanked Oganov and Hanshaw on ShoBox, has given up a chance to fight the WBO champ Inkin/Balzsay, and will likely be looking to fight someone like Froch or Bute. If they're willing to go to America that is. This gives the possibility of a fight on Showtime. Olympian Andre Ward may be ready for a title shot next year.

Also, let's not forget the European market, with big names like Arthur Abraham and Mikkel Kessler. Look on the bright side. What's the alternative?

Froch has to deliver. If he does, there's plenty for him. There's at least one superfight out there for him - whatever the market is - and lots of good competitive title defences. Superfights and good solid title defences are all part of the game at the top level. The sign is that there won't be any shit title fights for the WBC 168 belt, so it's not meaningless.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Galaxy, anyone can use the quote function to systematically try to break down their opponents.

Yeah, you can prove anything with facts


and as for Froch's *coughs* personality


when did he display this, then?

[Autobarn]

Facts? You want to go into those murky waters?

It's a fact that Margaritro v Cotto - a match between 2 world champs round about their primes - did some 400,000 buys on PPV, without HBO hard selling it with a 24/7 series (ok, a sulking Cotto, with broken English, would not have been good viewing). Nearly twice as much as the one-sided (for 11 rds) Calzaghe-Jones. And I'll bet the crowd enjoyed Margarito-Cotto, with its riveting 2-way action & dramatic finish, more than a certain "Joeboating" Welshman.

I know I'm more interested in competitive fights, and you seem more impressed by the size of the event regardless of how good/pitiful the fight is - but in Margo-Cotto's case, it did well from a business standpoint AND it delivered in action. That's how things should be, IMO. Good fighters, very good action, and an appreciative audience, making the event a success. And leading to other good fights.

IS it a fact that Taylor doesn't want to fight for an alphabet strap? Right now he doesn't seem able to make his mind up between WBC and IBF. Maybe go for the weakest, easies to beat. He looked too lacklustre last time out to justify a big fight with Calzaghe. Only alternative is if Pavlik or Wright move up for re/rubber matches.

IS it a fact that Froch can't feature in big fights, if he disposes of Pascal impressively? A good home following and a world title are a nice place to start. There are potential opponents from lucrative markets (Abraham, Germany; Kessler, Denmark; Dirrell, has Showtime backing). Maybe Carl will have to travel, but if he beats Pascal I reckon he'll feature in some big events that are also good, meaningful fights.

[Captain Hook]

Bute is EXACTLY who he said he is targeting.

Bute is the easier option.

Doesn't anyone want to prove themselves anymore?

Bute has been a champion for longer and he's fought and beat the better opposition. How is Bute the "easier" option compare to Froch? The only reason Taylor might end up fighting Bute instead of Froch is because he is a bigger name in the USA and he bring more money to the table.

Bute isn't a BIG name in the US, he should have been stopped the other day and he would get beaten by Froch.

Froch v Taylor or Froch v Bute would be good fights, and winnable. What about Abraham, when is he moving up?

[Goz]

I strongly disagree with those poo-pooing the significance of the fight in terms of Froch's career. The titles may have lost a little cache as the A list guys seek the big fights regardless of belts held but still a WBC title is a WBC title and if Froch wakes up on Sunday morning the WBC Super Middleweight champion of the world then he's legit. It's a stamp of approval.

[MightyWarrior]

The green belt is still the best one going, a massive achievement for Froch if he wins it. He'll be the king of Nottingham, or the sheriff at least. Hope he does, I really like his bolshy attitude & it beats listening to vanilla boy del la hoya spouting cliches and F all else any day of the week.

[Chambers2]

I strongly disagree with those poo-pooing the significance of the fight in terms of Froch's career.

Me too. The belts aren't what they were, but they're far from worthless with ITV and decent fanbase to back it up. I can see Froch being in some very BIG fights when he comes through Saturdays contest, especially as he seems willing to travel to get the BIG fights

[stujones]

I agree with KG - without US TV the belts mean nothing.

I mean maybe some of the following didn't want the hype profile fights, but what did non US TV to do the following.

Junior Witter
Clinton Woods
Arthur Abraham
Felix Sturm

Junior Witter - made 1 defence against a guy in the top 10 at the time.
Clinton Woods - could seemingly fight only 3 opponents (Delisle, Gonzalez, Johnson)
Abraham - Interest has picked up since the Miranda fight - which was showcased on US TV.
Sturm - Not even being mentioned as a possible Pavlik opponent.

Now the Green Belt CAN be used as a bargin tool, however unless he gets showcased as a champion in the US - it will be more fights in Nottingham against Fringe contenders. The US are not going to know of him on Sunday morning, even if he smashes Pascal.

Witter looked good vs Harris - did that do anything for his career - Nope. Cause it wasn't showcased in the states.

Maybe the WBC title can get him a fight with someone like Zuniga on the Undercard of a US TV bill - but its not going to get him Pavlik, Taylor etc in a main event. Maybe after he beats someone like Zuniga then yes. Providing the Zuniga fight will be on US TV.

[Coco]

And also you only get chump change without US TV money.
Witter was fighting for British title money

[Gray-Fox]

Stu you're right. The titles mean NOTHING without US TV.

[Maxime]

Dirrell has just spanked Oganov and Hanshaw on ShoBox, has given up a chance to fight the WBO champ Inkin/Balzsay, and will likely be looking to fight someone like Froch or Bute. If they're willing to go to America that is. T

Last time I checked Bute lives and fights in America.

[Maxime]

Bute is EXACTLY who he said he is targeting.

Bute is the easier option.

Doesn't anyone want to prove themselves anymore?

Bute has been a champion for longer and he's fought and beat the better opposition. How is Bute the "easier" option compare to Froch? The only reason Taylor might end up fighting Bute instead of Froch is because he is a bigger name in the USA and he bring more money to the table.

Bute isn't a BIG name in the US, he should have been stopped the other day and he would get beaten by Froch.

Froch v Taylor or Froch v Bute would be good fights, and winnable. What about Abraham, when is he moving up?

I said Bute is a bigger name in the USA I didn't say he was a big name.

He fought Sakio Bika and Librado Andrade live on US television. Two Ring Magazine Top10 rated fighters known to the US boxing fans. For all we know the controversy at the end of the Bute-Andrade fight help put Bute's name out there even more south of the border.

On the other hand, Froch has not fought a single top10 rated opponent...let alone fought someone worth a damn on US television and that's not gonna change with a win over Jean Pascal. A Taylor-Froch fight is not going to happen without the support of HBO and I don't see why HBO would care about Taylor-Froch. Why would HBO throw money at a Taylor-Froch fight when no one in America has heard of Carl Froch? Hell, they didn't even mention Carl Froch name during the Taylor-Lacy broadcast. But they did talk about Bute, Kessler and Calzaghe quite a bit.