Should Mosley be banned?

[Old bones Ian]

From fight news

A U.S. District Court judge has unsealed thousands of previously court-protected documents from the BALCO drug case including former world champion "Sugar" Shane Mosley's 2003 grand jury testimony. According to the New York Daily News, Mosley testified that he injected himself with the performance enhancing substance EPO before his second fight with Oscar De La Hoya, who ironically is now his business partner. Mosley is scheduled to challenge WBA welterweight champion Antonio Margarito on January 24th.
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For me he should be banned from boxing for at least a year, he beat Oscar in the 2nd fight, by a close decision, maybe without the EPO he would of lost, also it begs the question how many other times has he done it?

[Chambers2]

I agree he should serve a ban.

I bet there's a fair bit of juicing that's gone on unnoticed in the sport

[Old bones Ian]

Although i think he should be banned, he probably won't be as there is no positive test been done on him.
He'll just say the statement is untrue

[Poncey]

Any althete cheating with banned substances should be banned for life. They shouldn't be allowed to be involved with the sport in any way. But Boxing isn't like that.

Christ Panama Lewis was allowed to work with Tyson, and got a state licence, after the Resto v Collins fight.

[mike john]

its a shame cause i was a big fan of mosley but in light of recent events, not only should he be banned but his entire career isnt worth wiping your arse on. same goes for anyone one else in a similar situation

[Chambers2]

its a shame cause i was a big fan of mosley but in light of recent events, not only should he be banned but his entire career isnt worth wiping your arse on. same goes for anyone one else in a similar situation

RJJ and at least one of the Klits have tested positive in the past, which makes you wonder - are they just very good and experienced at juicing or was this just a one time abberation?

[mike john]

its a shame cause i was a big fan of mosley but in light of recent events, not only should he be banned but his entire career isnt worth wiping your arse on. same goes for anyone one else in a similar situation

RJJ and at least one of the Klits have tested positive in the past, which makes you wonder - are they just very good and experienced at juicing or was this just a one time abberation?

yeah jones can go whistle as far as im concerned, i think it was vitali who was caught, dont know of the circumstances surrounding it tho? i think there can be exceptions to the rule: james toney for instance, caught on nandralone twice. needs to be punished and banned, for a period at least, but as it may have just been something he took as a heavy weight, i wouldnt discount his accomplishments at lower weights. depends on the circumstances. roy jones does a one off for the vastly over matched richard hall and at no other time? please

[ushnikov]

2 year ban for first offence then a life ban for second offence.

[Old bones Ian]

Well McCline got found out being supplied with $12,000 worth of steroids, human growth hormone and other related drugs between 2005 and 2006.

That story came out just before McCline challenged Samuel Peter, but the fight still went ahead.

Vitali Klitschko admitted to being caught as a drug cheat in the amatuers, he was thrown off the Ukrainian team after failing a drugs test before the Atlanta Olympics. His brother Wladimir replaced him and went on to win the gold medal.

[Poncey]

Didn't Holyfield do THG, or was that an unfounded rumour?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Toney does have some extenuating circumstances. He has damage to his pineal gland, which is involved in regulating the production of tesosterone - which in turn regulates weight loss and gain and body fat. He took substances to counteract this. There is an article on the internet somewhere.

[Old bones Ian]

Holyfield has been linked with a couple of drug investigations, but no firm evidence has been put forward, So innocent until proven guilty.

[Datsue]

Ban the feckers. Performance enhancing -- rather than recreational -- drug abusers that have hard & fast evidence (or in this case, a sworn confession): ban them from competing. For life.

Also: it didn't do Mosely much good in the second DLH fight, did it? Maybe if he wasn't on roids he could've thrown more than five punches a round & not moved with all the speed & grace of a zombie.

Roided fighters (see also: Vargas, McCline) all seem to have that ultra-stiff punching motion, which makes one wonder why people think David Haye (fast, loose hands, quick reflexes) does them.

[Poncey]

Toney does have some extenuating circumstances. He has damage to his pineal gland, which is involved in regulating the production of tesosterone - which in turn regulates weight loss and gain and body fat. He took substances to counteract this. There is an article on the internet somewhere.

Plus his Momma makes awesome cakes!

[stujones]

Also Ironic that he fought possibly his worst fights at Light Middle. Its a tough one to call, if Mosley does a "Marion Jones" and openly admits to the drugs then he should be banned, but as Old Bones Ian says at the moment he can say the statements were untrue or taken out of context or something.

[fluxstuff]

I might be wrong, but I didn't think Balco was listed at the time. Mosley's said he took it, ddn't think it was a restricted product and would say it didn't do him much good anyway.

[stujones]

Roided fighters (see also: Vargas, McCline) all seem to have that ultra-stiff punching motion, which makes one wonder why people think David Haye (fast, loose hands, quick reflexes) does them.

Note: I am not suggesting in anyway that Haye is juicing - I'll put that disclaimer in from the off.

However, bit of an assumption there Datsue - your basing your arguement on 3 fighters.... what about Tyson - well thought of that he roided and even Tommy Morrison (confessed on numerous occasions) - Morrison had his faults but he could throw the combinations.

Also, one of my criticisms of Haye's last two performances were that he didn't seem to be as "loose" as he was. He wasn't boxing, just looking for the Hayemaker. Compare his performances vs Enzo and Barratt with that of Arthur Williams.

[doctorboxing]

I might be wrong, but I didn't think Balco was listed at the time. Mosley's said he took it, ddn't think it was a restricted product and would say it didn't do him much good anyway.

???????

BALCO is the company that supplied a range of performance enhancing substances, it is not one itself.

EPO was what Mosley is alleged to have taken and that most certainly is a banned substance as it increases red blood cell numbers which mean more oxygen can be delivered to muscles etc. - i.e you can last longer, pretty handy for the later rounds of a boxing match.

[Poncey]

This all stems from the Graham and Canseco whilst-blowing of several years ago. Canseco named Giambi in his book, who then told all about BALCO. Surprisingly not much has been made of it over here but it gets a lot of air time in the States. Some background:

In 2003, the United States Attorney for the Northern District of California began investigating BALCO. U.S. sprint coach Trevor Graham had given an anonymous phone call to the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) in June 2003 accusing a number of athletes being involved in doping with a steroid that was not detectable at the time. He also named Victor Conte as the source of the steroid. As evidence, Graham delivered a syringe containing traces of tetrahydrogestrinone, nicknamed "the Clear."

Shortly after, Don Catlin, MD, the founder and then-director of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory and now head of the Los Angeles-based nonprofit organization Anti-Doping Research, succeeded in identifying and developing a testing process for tetrahydrogestrinone (THG). Now able to detect the new substance, he tested 550 existing samples from athletes, of which 20 proved to be positive for THG. Later that year, the Chicago Tribune named Catlin Sportsman of the Year. [2]

On September 3, 2003 agents of the Internal Revenue Service, Food and Drug Administration, San Mateo Narcotics Task Force, and USADA conducted a house search at the BALCO facilities. Beside lists of BALCO customers in a BALCO field warehouse they found containers whose labels indicated steroids and growth hormones. In a house search at Anderson's place two days later, steroids, $60,000 in cash, names lists and dosage plans were found.

Among the athletes listed in the record of BALCO customers were:

MLB players: Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Benito Santiago, Jeremy Giambi, Bobby Estalella, Armando Rios
Athletes: Hammer thrower John McEwen, shot putters Kevin Toth and C.J. Hunter, sprinters Dwain Chambers, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Raymond J. Smith and Kelli White, middle-distance runner Regina Jacobs, boxer Shane Mosley.
Cycling : Tammy Thomas.
NFL players: A number from the Oakland Raiders, including Bill Romanowski, Tyrone Wheatley, Barrett Robbins, Chris Cooper and Dana Stubblefield.
Judo: Conte was also connected with supplying "vitamin supplements" to the 1988 U.S. Olympic Judo team coached by Willy Cahill of San Bruno, California.
Christos Tzekos and his athletes were initially connected to BALCO but later cleared.[3]
Patrick Arnold, BALCO's chemist, alleges that Bonds and Sheffield were given "the Clear," though the athletes deny knowing about it and Arnold does not claim to have personally witnessed it. [4]

In April 2005, Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada were honored with the journalist prize of the White House Correspondents' Association. In 2006, they published the book Game of Shadows, which consists of a summary of about 200 interviews and 1,000 documents they collected for their research.

On July 15, 2005, Conte and Anderson cut plea bargains, pled guilty to illegal steroid distribution and money laundering and avoided an embarrassing trial. Conte spent four months in prison. [5] Anderson was incarcerated for 13 1/2 months. He was released on Nov. 15, 2007, the same day Bonds was indicted by a federal grand jury on four counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice.[6]

On June 6, 2006 the house of baseball player Jason Grimsley (Arizona Diamondbacks) was searched as part of the ongoing BALCO probe. Grimsley later said that federal investigators wanted him to wear a wire in order to obtain information against Barry Bonds. He told people which players used performance-enhancing drugs. When the dust cleared, Grimsley was released by the Diamondbacks and was given a 50-game suspension by Major League Baseball.

In October 2006, investigations against Fainaru-Wada and Williams were started. The reporters were served with subpoenas to appear before a grand jury to identify the individual who leaked Bonds' name to them. They refused to do so and federal prosecutors asked that they be jailed for up to 18 months (the typical term of a grand jury).[7] [8] [9] However, in February 2007, federal prosecutors dropped charges against the reporters after a Colorado attorney, Troy Ellerman, who once represented Conte and another executive of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, admitted to leaking the testimony and pleaded guilty to federal charges of unauthorized disclosure of grand jury testimony.[10]

In an interview with Editor & Publisher, Lance Williams revealed that he would never testify in court, even if it did not involve confidential sources. "I have no interest in becoming anybody's witness."[11]

On November 15, 2007, former San Francisco Giants outfielder Barry Bonds was indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice based on his grand jury testimony in this investigation. His trial is to begin on March 2, 2009. After cyclist Tammy Thomas was given house arrest and probation instead of jail time, Bonds' lawyers hope for a similar outcome should he be convicted. [12]

On April 4, 2008, Tammy Thomas was convicted by a federal jury on three counts of making false statements to a federal grand jury in November 2003, and on one count of obstructing justice. She was acquitted of two perjury charges. Sentencing was set for July 18, 2008.[13] She was sentenced to six months house arrest and five years probation on October 10, 2008.[12]

On May 29, 2008, Trevor Graham was convicted by a federal jury on one count of lying to federal investigators about his relationship to an admitted steroids dealer, and the jury deadlocked on two other charges. Sentencing was set for September 5, 2008.[14]

[Old bones Ian]

I might be wrong, but I didn't think Balco was listed at the time. Mosley's said he took it, ddn't think it was a restricted product and would say it didn't do him much good anyway.

???????

BALCO is the company that supplied a range of performance enhancing substances, it is not one itself.

EPO was what Mosley is alleged to have taken and that most certainly is a banned substance as it increases red blood cell numbers which mean more oxygen can be delivered to muscles etc. - i.e you can last longer, pretty handy for the later rounds of a boxing match.

Yes EPO is more to do with stamina , it was used alot in road cycling.
it can effectively give someone the same improvment of training for 2 years in about 4-5 weeks

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Performance enhancing drugs are, sadly, pretty much the norm in boxing now


There really is too much money flying about for anyone to really bother about it.

Also, im not sure your average fan gives a toss if someone is on EPO, Deca or whatever

I dont

[doctorboxing]

Boxing is far too lenient on drug takers and because of the way the sport is organised with separate governing bodies then there is not defined punishments.

IMO the WBC, WBA, WBO and IBF etc. should all agree that someone caught taking drugs (and testing should be done in between fights, during training and afterwards with random testing to any registered boxer) should serve a ban from all fighting. If caught again they should be banned for far longer and also never be allowed to fight for a world title again.

[doctorboxing]

Performance enhancing drugs are, sadly, pretty much the norm in boxing now


There really is too much money flying about for anyone to really bother about it.

Also, im not sure your average fan gives a toss if someone is on EPO, Deca or whatever

I dont

Thats a sad fact as it ruins the sport.

Performance enhancing substances take away the true competitive nature of boxing - i.e. natural talent + hard work = success. How would you feel as a boxer who lost a world title to someone who hadnt trained as hard as you but took drugs?

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Boxing is far too lenient on drug takers and because of the way the sport is organised with separate governing bodies then there is not defined punishments.

IMO the WBC, WBA, WBO and IBF etc. should all agree that someone caught taking drugs (and testing should be done in between fights, during training and afterwards with random testing to any registered boxer) should serve a ban from all fighting. If caught again they should be banned for far longer and also never be allowed to fight for a world title again.

uh huh


But top fighters dont fight for WBC, WBA, WBO and IBF belts, anymore

[Poncey]

The onus is on the state athletic commissions, not the world sanctioning bodies.