FROCH POST-MORTEM

[My T Sharp]

Top win. Is Froch the first Nottingham man to win a world title?

Jason Booth if you count the IBO or Khaliq

BTW - well done to team McCracken

[Captain Hook]

froch did drag out the win but this fight should not have been for the title,,,thought both guys were quite basic and very one paced.

fight should have been for a top 10 ranking....not a world title.

if froch fights taylor , id take taylor big time , same goes for kessler

Fight should have been for a top 10 ranking?!

Who the hell is better than these two at super middle?

One man - Kessler, and I give Froch a chance v him.

Very nervous start, ridiculous defence, brilliant combinations at times, good power, thrilling fight.

Give the guy his dues, he beat a good fighter in Pascal - well done Carl. Was delighted for him.

And what a great guy Tyson Fury is! As well as having potential.

[Captain Hook]

Well, just got back in from Nottingham and I'm still buzzing now - had a brilliant view of the best fight I've ever seen live. Could not believe what a war it was and that it went the full 12.
I'm over the moon that Carl won, and from my vantage point I had him pulling away in the final third to win by a couple of rounds, but there were plenty of flaws on display as well. For what it's worth, here's how I saw it:

THE GOOD:
Great chin
Great jab (when he finally decided to use it!)
Great stamina
Most importantly, his sheer will to win - he had to dig really deep at times and came through with flying colours.

THE BAD:
His power looks as though it may be over-rated as he hit Pascal flush on a number of occasions and while he shook him on a couple of occasions he never really looked as though he was going to KO him.
He seemed a bit one-paced at times and unable to 'move through the gears' or alter his game plan (bar the final third when he started doubling up on the jab)

THE UGLY:
When the f**k is he going to realise that at this level he isn't good enough to leave his left low and rely on slipping shots (which he then ships full-on!) If he doesn't address his defensive inadequacies his reign will be short-lived.

I've always been a huge fan of Froch but while he proved he belonged in world class tonight, I was left a bit concerned about his long-term prospects as his flaws at this level were explicitly exposed.
Still, it was a great learning fight for him and nobody could begrudge him a 'give-me' after a war like that. The only super-middle I wouldn't put him in with at this point in time is Kessler, as I can see the Dane punishing his defensive short-comings in brutal fashion.

Excellent summing up; I can't disagree at all.

I was there last night & I'm so happy for Carl, but he's got a lot to learn if he is to go up against Kessler.

I also thought the fight was closer than the scorecards suggested: I need to see it on tv to confirm.

totally agree, I had it by three rounds mate

[sweetscience]

the good - all of the above.

The bad - overexcitement on the big occasion, and the tendency to get involved in a massive ruck.

Carl can probably make a couple of defences, then lose his title and get it back in a series of exciting and overly dramatic fights, because that it the kind of personality he is, he cannot help himself - but he will be in some exciting fights, win or lose.

He is basically the super middleweight version of Haye, but with a little bit more charisma, and a lot more chin.

Love it Carl - go on my son.

i agree with james's assessment

[WildWaylon]

Brilliant fight and Carl earned the win. I scored it 116-112. I am happy for Carl that he is now the WBC champ but the big question now is, how long can he reign. He has now reached World level but to me he looks a very vulnerable fighter because of his poor defense. That low arm will be his downfall at this level. His biggest plus is his ability to take a punch either to the head or to the body. That point was proven as Pascal hit Froch with some good shots many fighters would have gone down from. I like Carl a lot more now he has quit the arrogance, confidence is a necessary and completely different matter altogether. I would like to see him fight Joe but I dont see how he could win. Froch would be an easy target for Calzaghe who would beat Froch by 5 or 6 rounds easily. Froch must stay away from Kessler for now. He needs to work on is defense in his next 2 or 3 fights and if he improves then perhaps a crack at the Dane is feasible. Maybe its too late in the day for him to alter his style completely but it certainly needs some changes if he is to remain champion. Good luck Carl for the future.

[Wax On]

Froch mentioned a few defences back at the Nottingham arena, so some unifications a way off yet imo. No way Bute comes to the UK for starters.

I'd avoid Andrade. A W would make a massive statement to an American audience, but too dangerous for Carl's style.

Unless he can get the mega fight with JC (which I personally really doubt) then this definately what Carl needs to do, build a bit more momentum in terms of defending on ITV against a couple of guys who are B level fighters. The public won't know the difference and Carl will earn some good cash - which is what he deserves.

I can only see him losing to the likes of Kessler and Taylor with the amount of big right hands he'd be eating, so he should delay meeting them for now IMO.

[Autobarn]

I think a Kessler fight can wait. Let Kessler get bigger, otherwise Froch-Kessler is in Joe's shadow. Kessler's been stuck knocking out German mandatories. OK he's big in Germany and Denmark, but not so much in the UK and US.

Could be interest in Bute fight after beating a top Canadian; however, this is the wrong time for Bute perhaps.

I like the idea of Taylor. A recognisible name, but a certain lack of fire, stamina, killer instinct, and having come up from middleweight...there would be a few things in Froch's favour despite the Taylor jab. Risk-reward looks reasonable for Froch. However, it's a matter of getting Taylor interested.

Far too early to talk of Calzaghe (just as 1997-2002 Joe was not ready to take on an elite fighter and didn't!). Don't want to see Froch in with a southpaw just yet. I want to see that jab developed vs some orthodox opponents.

I hope Murat beats Marcus Johnson, that way maybe it could pave the way for Froch-Abraham. That would be fvcking brilliant.

Would definitely like to see some title defences in Nottingham. Good crowd, terrestrial TV, etc. He can be a star here first and then build on to an international audience, hopefully.

[Captain Hook]

I think a Kessler fight can wait. Let Kessler get bigger, otherwise Froch-Kessler is in Joe's shadow. Kessler's been stuck knocking out German mandatories. OK he's big in Germany and Denmark, but not so much in the UK and US.

Could be interest in Bute fight after beating a top Canadian; however, this is the wrong time for Bute perhaps.

I like the idea of Taylor. A recognisible name, but a certain lack of fire, stamina, killer instinct, and having come up from middleweight...there would be a few things in Froch's favour despite the Taylor jab. Risk-reward looks reasonable for Froch. However, it's a matter of getting Taylor interested.

Far too early to talk of Calzaghe (just as 1997-2002 Joe was not ready to take on an elite fighter and didn't!). Don't want to see Froch in with a southpaw just yet. I want to see that jab developed vs some orthodox opponents.

I hope Murat beats Marcus Johnson, that way maybe it could pave the way for Froch-Abraham. That would be fvcking brilliant.

Would definitely like to see some title defences in Nottingham. Good crowd, terrestrial TV, etc. He can be a star here first and then build on to an international audience, hopefully.

Agree with all that, only sticking point is that he's 31.....he'll have to get moving.

The way he fights his career is not going to reach to 35-36 like a JC or RJJ, he takes too many shots.

[adamwillan]

The problem now is that being on ITV they are not going to be able to get the money together for calzaghe.

You think Kessler fight near enough filled the millenium, really high ticket prices, a crap and cheap undercard and setanta putting some money in and Warren said he lost 500k on the promotion.

If i remember correctly didnt they both recieve 2.5m each so how the hell is Hennesey going to pay calzaghe 5m??????????

[MightyWarrior]

WBC ratings
CHAMPION: VACANT
WON TITLE:
LAST DEFENCE:
LAST COMPULSORY: March 24, 2007 by Kessler
WBA CHAMPION: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
IBF CHAMPION: Lucien Bute (Canada)
WBO CHAMPION: Denis Inkin (Russia)
Contenders:
WBC INT. CHAMPION: VACANT

1 .- Carl Froch (GB) BBBoC/COMM
2 .- Jermain Taylor (US)
3 .- Jean Pascal (Haiti/Canada) NABF
4 .- Jeff Lacy (US)
5 .- Karo Murat (Germany) EBU
6 .- Andre Dirrell (US)
7 .- Andre Ward (US)
8 .- Anthony Mundine (Australia)
9 .- Alejandro Berrio (Colombia)
10 .- Marcus Johnson (US)
11 .- Vitaly Tsypko (Ukraine)
12 .- Peter Manfredo Jr. (US) NABF-Interim
13 .- Mads Larsen (Denmark)
14 Stanislav Kashtanov (Ukraine)
15 .- Robert Stieglitz (Germany)

Johnson as a voluntary maybe? Then Taylor or one of the up & coming Americans..

[housesecond]

My thoughts;

Froch made an easy fight very hard because of his ridiculous insistance on holding his hands low and punching from the waist

He was flattered by the scores

If he ever gets in the ring with Calzaghe he'l get taken apart.

[Chambers2]

I think a Kessler fight can wait. Let Kessler get bigger, otherwise Froch-Kessler is in Joe's shadow. Kessler's been stuck knocking out German mandatories. OK he's big in Germany and Denmark, but not so much in the UK and US.

Could be interest in Bute fight after beating a top Canadian; however, this is the wrong time for Bute perhaps.

I like the idea of Taylor. A recognisible name, but a certain lack of fire, stamina, killer instinct, and having come up from middleweight...there would be a few things in Froch's favour despite the Taylor jab. Risk-reward looks reasonable for Froch. However, it's a matter of getting Taylor interested.

Far too early to talk of Calzaghe (just as 1997-2002 Joe was not ready to take on an elite fighter and didn't!). Don't want to see Froch in with a southpaw just yet. I want to see that jab developed vs some orthodox opponents.

I hope Murat beats Marcus Johnson, that way maybe it could pave the way for Froch-Abraham. That would be fvcking brilliant.

Would definitely like to see some title defences in Nottingham. Good crowd, terrestrial TV, etc. He can be a star here first and then build on to an international audience, hopefully.

Agree with all that, only sticking point is that he's 31.....he'll have to get moving.

The way he fights his career is not going to reach to 35-36 like a JC or RJJ, he takes too many shots.

If Carl is gonna have a gimme as his next fight then I hope they get it lined up and out of the way, he's got to keep active and build some momentum. I don't think he'll have more than one gimme before he starts looking for a name. In saying that though if the Calzaghe fight becomes an option it should instantly overrule everything, then Calzaghe and Froch can duke it out in front of a packed millenium stadium......... then Frochy will be the next generation Legend Killer!!

It's a gynormous humungous mega-galactic fight for British Boxing imo and it'll do wonders for Carls profile on both sides of the atlantic and a loss is not the end og the World. It's too BIG an opportunity to consider turning down

[forcefraser]

If he ever gets in the ring with Calzaghe he'l get taken apart.

I agree, Calzaghe is in a different league. He would outpoint Froch by a country mile. It would go 12 though cos Froch has a mighty chin. Just too slow/one dimensional to give Calzaghe a problem. His power although good, was somewhat lacking against Paschal and Calzaghe can also take a great shot.

[stujones]

Defences in Nottingham, sorry he is 31 - I don't like the sounds of that. Shades of Witter.

[Max Molyneux]

If he ever gets in the ring with Calzaghe he'l get taken apart.

I agree, Calzaghe is in a different league. He would outpoint Froch by a country mile. It would go 12 though cos Froch has a mighty chin. Just too slow/one dimensional to give Calzaghe a problem. His power although good, was somewhat lacking against Paschal and Calzaghe can also take a great shot.

Froch only hits that hard because he plants his feet down to deliver It while eating leather himself.

[josh fg]

Grate fight, was impressed by his ability to outlast Pascal showing very good staminar and he has a hell of a chin.

I really think when he was jabbing his head off he look truly world class although it wasn't as exciting obviously, however I think if he does fight Calzatghe, Taylor etc then that will have to be the tactic although he seems unwilling or unable to concerntrate for more than half a round which is a worry.

I think his Gimmee should be a name in the states like Lacy or Saskio Bika (comming off his contender win followed by beating Manfrado.

[My Name Is Earl]

Don't agree that he only seems to concentrate for half a round. It's just his style, which can look laconic at times. Last nights battle will have done him the world of good, in realising this next level he's now at, is another kettle of fish.

[tonyevs]

Great fight .. something I didn`t really expect, then again almost all my predictions were proved wrong

Froch will be a handfull for all the top guys .. I just think his punch power at world level is a little over rated and his skills a little more over rated.
Pascal in the early rnds timed him beautifully with the left hook each time try froch tried to steam in .. and those right handers he bounced off Froch .. I thought he def landed the heavier shots, but just seemed to lose something after the 5-6th rnds.

Well done carl

[Asterix]

Apparently Froch had a cracked rib and perforated ear drum going into the fight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... oxing.html

[josh fg]

Apparently Froch had a cracked rib and perforated ear drum going into the fight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... oxing.html

Do we believe that, if it is true what were they thinking of sparing that hard 10 days befor a big fight. If its true its a pretty impressive result.

[whiskey]

Yeah it's true about the rib and you can see the marks on his left side where Pascal targeted it from the opening bell. His ear has been checked out in Ireland and may require a small op and it affected his balance a bit.

People always have and always will, pick Froch's methods apart. From the ABA coaches, to the England team to his professional career in general. At the end of the day, he has a big mouth and big set of balls and will fight anyone.

People for too long have been drip fed hand-picked fights over the last few years and it's really spoilt things in my opinion. The PPV bill last night on the other channel was absolutely sh*te and the atrocious fights on it were an embarrassment.

What we witnessed last night was two unbeaten, hungry fighters going toe to toe for the best belt in boxing, they both trained like beasts and i'd say that there was more excitement in one of their early rounds than the entire Taylor vs Lacy fight put together.

Pascal was a huge super middleweight and must have been about 180lb in the ring and he is as solid as they come. It was the first type of stlyist that Froch has fought professionally and although Pascal had his moments, he couldn't dent Froch - despite throwing the kitchen sink at him - and ultimately it broke his heart and his engine slightly, from the mid point onwards.

All in all a great dust up and I think fan or not, a lot of folk will tune into the next one.

[WelshDevil]

The thing that really stuck out was the slow pace - almost like at times the fight was being fought in slow motion. Both fighters looked like nerves had drained them early on.

Froch had a better range than Pascal - Carl had the distance spot on while Pascal would often fall short with a jab. Both took and landed tremendous shots - it is fair to say that they were both were far to easy to hit.

Froch I thought was looking tired at mid point and at times ragged while Pascal's output just faded - he didn't have the engine to throw volumes of punches while Carl seemingly got a second wind.

Superb action, drama and it was tense and explosive. The fight had everything and both proved there hearts and chins and the post fight interviews proved both men had class and dignity.

Superb fight and a rematch in the future would be great.

Froch definately won - no doubt about that - the early rounds were close but Froch won the last few in my book.

[tonyevs]

Pascal was a huge super middleweight and must have been about 180lb in the ring and he is as solid as they come. It was the first type of stlyist that Froch has fought professionally and although Pascal had his moments, he couldn't dent Froch - despite throwing the kitchen sink at him - and ultimately it broke his heart and his engine slightly, from the mid point onwards.

I wouldn`t say Pascal looked bigger than Froch at all .. if he was a huge s-middle then carl is one also.
I made a thread earlier about why I thought these two guys would ideally have been put together for an eliminator instead of the full belt .. both guys had not fought any real world class opponents - as your comment about Froch never meeting a stylist similar to pascal highlighted.

It was an excellent fight - and result, I`m just a little disapointed by the excuses now being put forward because it didn`t showcase carl to be quite as good as he would have wanted to look.

[josh fg]

Another factor I suspect is that Froch looks better when he is more active and he has only had 2 fights in the last 12 months nether of which were against top class opponents. If he is to fight again in April as some reports have suggested I'd expect him to look better. As I have said elsewhere I'd like to see this fight against Bika or someone similar who is well ranked has fought calzaghe is a name in the states and Froch should beat handley.

[stujones]

The thing that really stuck out was the slow pace - almost like at times the fight was being fought in slow motion. Both fighters looked like nerves had drained them early on.

Froch had a better range than Pascal - Carl had the distance spot on while Pascal would often fall short with a jab. Both took and landed tremendous shots - it is fair to say that they were both were far to easy to hit.

Froch I thought was looking tired at mid point and at times ragged while Pascal's output just faded - he didn't have the engine to throw volumes of punches while Carl seemingly got a second wind.

Superb action, drama and it was tense and explosive. The fight had everything and both proved there hearts and chins and the post fight interviews proved both men had class and dignity.

Superb fight and a rematch in the future would be great.

Froch definately won - no doubt about that - the early rounds were close but Froch won the last few in my book.

Good analysis.