Max Schmeling overrated??

[Crease]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

[pundit]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

European heavyweights it is something like
1 Lewis
2 Schmeling
3 Johannson
4 Vitali
5 Carnera (Carnera is a fighter who tends to get too bad reviews, imo)

[dempseyfire]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

European heavyweights it is something like
1 Lewis
2 Schmeling
3 Johannson
4 Vlad
5 Carnera (Carnera is a fighter who tends to get too bad reviews, imo)

WHoa whoa . . .you are selling a lot of European HWs short by making Wladimir Klitschko your # 4 Euro HW???

WHat about Joe Bugner? Tommy Farr? Paulino Uzucudun? Hell I'd rate Frank Bruno above Klitschko (and also pick Frank to KO Wlad in a mythical fight)

[pundit]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

European heavyweights it is something like
1 Lewis
2 Schmeling
3 Johannson
4 Vlad
5 Carnera (Carnera is a fighter who tends to get too bad reviews, imo)

WHoa whoa . . .you are selling a lot of European HWs short by making Wladimir Klitschko your # 4 Euro HW???

WHat about Joe Bugner? Tommy Farr? Paulino Uzucudun? Hell I'd rate Frank Bruno above Klitschko (and also pick Frank to KO Wlad in a mythical fight)

I ment Vitali, sorry corrected. They guys you mention are all top 10 material, but I wouldn't put them above Vitali.

[pound per pound]

Is Schmeling overrated? It's interesting, because several months ago there was a thread about him being underrated. :) Most (though not all) people he was a bit underrated. You often hear that Schmeling is underrated.

As Thunder & Lightning mentioned some people do have him in their top 15; and that is a reach. There are certainly 15 guys who were better.

However, (probably a smaller amount) people underrate him and rate him lower than he they should.
He has some big plusses and big minuses to consider.
On the plus side, he did beat Joe Louis. You can't take that away from him. He also had some other nice wins that others have pointed out.

On the negative side, he got stopped by Baer, lost to Steve Hamas (though he avenged this loss) had a draw with Uzcudun (though he beat Uzcudun on two other occasions) and got destroyed by Louis.

I have him just behind guys like Langford,Wills, Jeanette, McVey, Charles, Walcott, Norton and Patterson and about even with Baer. However you could make the argument for Schmeling over these guys; They all have their plusses and minuses as well.
Some would have him behind guys like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, and Sharkey.

So if you give Schmeling the benefit of the doubt; you could realistically have him as high as #16. However, if you never give him the benefit of the doubt, you could have him as far down as #29. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Schmeling (and Charles and Walcott for that matter) actually kind of reminds me of a few basketball players from the 1980's. Like Schmeling, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, and Joe Dumars were complimented often and were constantly referred to as "underrated".
However, after a good length of time, if a guy is consistently referred to as "underrated" is he still "underrated"? :)

Good post. Schmeling in the top 15 is over rated. Schemling outside of the top 35 is under rated. The mid 20's seem about right to me. Max has a big win over Louis, but the rest of his career is hit or miss.

[pundit]

Good post. Schmeling in the top 15 is over rated. Schemling outside of the top 35 is under rated. The mid 20's seem about right to me. Max has a big win over Louis, but the rest of his career is hit or miss.

Mid-20s is underrated, and his wins over Sharkey, Uzcudun, Risko, Stribling is neither hit nor miss.

Folks, my feeling is that you take an imcomplete look at Schmeling's career, judging it almost exclusively by the fights against Joe Louis. But between 1929 and 1933 -- long before Louis came onto the scene -- Schmeling established himself as the leading heavyweight in the world, 1931-33 he considered clearly the best in a strong and competitive field of heavyweights.

There are few fighters in the division who have achieved this in their careers, and certainly less than 20.

[pound per pound]

Good post. Schmeling in the top 15 is over rated. Schemling outside of the top 35 is under rated. The mid 20's seem about right to me. Max has a big win over Louis, but the rest of his career is hit or miss.

Mid-20s is underrated, and his wins over Sharkey, Uzcudun, Risko, Stribling is neither hit nor miss.

Folks, my feeling is that you take an imcomplete look at Schmeling's career, judging it almost exclusively by the fights against Joe Louis. But between 1929 and 1933 -- long before Louis came onto the scene -- Schmeling established himself as the leading heavyweight in the world, 1931-33 he considered clearly the best in a strong and competitive field of heavyweights.

There are few fighters in the division who have achieved this in their careers, and certainly less than 20.

He beat Sharkey via DQ. Uzcudun is just a solid contender who lost a lot. Risko was not as good as Uzcudun. Schemling's resume mainly based on his upset win over Joe Louis.

A spot in the mid 20’s to me is not under rating Max. Max lost a lot, sometimes via KO. Its hard to look good while dropping desisions or being Ko'd.

Sometimes historians have an out of sight out of mind attitude towards old timers. If they didn’t see it, it is hardly discussed. Yet it happened, so in my mind it should count.

[Cojimar 1945]

Tyson was only dominant against top oppossition for a fairly short period (86-89). He did not fully clean out the division during his reign because he never fought guys like Witherspoon, Dokes or Holyfield while champion. Holyfield was already a top contender during Tyson's reign. I think Holyfield could be rated above Tyson.

[Cojimar 1945]

Bowe does not rate close to Tyson, Holyfield or Lewis. He lacks impressive wins aside from those against Holyfield. He did not accomplish enough to rate as highly as the others because his competition was not as good as his contemporaries. Golota was whipping him twice.

[pundit]

He beat Sharkey via DQ.

He dominated Sharkey in 1932 and got robbed.

Uzcudun is just a solid contender who lost a lot. Risko was not as good as Uzcudun.

Top contenders in the late 1920s - both. And don't forget Young Stribling.

Schemling's resume mainly based on his upset win over Joe Louis.

Wrongly.

A spot in the mid 20’s to me is not under rating Max.

It is.

Max lost a lot, sometimes via KO. Its hard to look good while dropping desisions or being Ko'd.

His only significant losses were to HOFers Joe Louis and Max Baer, and to Steve Hamas - a loss he avenged so soundly that he ended Hamas' career.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

too bad pundit doesnt defend the 1950s like he does the 1930s, seems he wreaks of bias.

[pundit]

too bad pundit doesnt defend the 1950s like he does the 1930s, seems he wreaks of bias.

Buddy, I have five 1950s fighters in my top 20 (Liston, Marciano, Patterson, Charles, Walcott); but only two 1930s fighters (Louis, Schmeling - Sharkey and Baer just miss out).

[pound per pound]

too bad pundit doesnt defend the 1950s like he does the 1930s, seems he wreaks of bias.

Buddy, I have five 1950s fighters in my top 20 (Liston, Marciano, Patterson, Charles, Walcott); but only two 1930s fighters (Louis, Schmeling - Sharkey and Baer just miss out).

I sense no bais here. Pundit is A-Ok.

[Datsue]

Wow, sorry to dredge this up from the depths, but coincidentally I watched Louis vs. Schmeling I last night (working my way through a stack of Louis DVDs I'm copying before giving to my Dad for Xmas -- shit, sorry, did I say copying, I meant checking the quality of).

Fantastic fight. I'd only ever read about Schmeling beforehand, but that was one hellacious performance -- he seemed extremely tricky, with a snapping left jab, & only really bothered by Joe's bodyshots. And what a right hand! The left side of Louis' face looked like someone had inflated it with an airpump by the time he went.

Anyway, just based on that, I'd say he easily confirms my earlier misgivings about his all-time ratings. I'm a bit younger than some on here (& a bit older than others) & I've read more than I've seen about the old-timers, but Schmeling looked great that night. Sometimes that's all you need -- the evidence of your own eyes.

[Goodnight, Irene]

If I may ask, where did you get the first fight in its entirety?

[Datsue]

PM sent.

[dempseyfire]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

European heavyweights it is something like
1 Lewis
2 Schmeling
3 Johannson
4 Vitali
5 Carnera (Carnera is a fighter who tends to get too bad reviews, imo)

Carnera has a better resume than Vitali.

Who has Vitali beaten? Peter, Sanders, and Johnson???

[man]

Is Schmeling overrated? It's interesting, because several months ago there was a thread about him being underrated. :) Most (though not all) people he was a bit underrated. ...

Schmeling (and Charles and Walcott for that matter) actually kind of reminds me of a few basketball players from the 1980's. Like Schmeling, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, and Joe Dumars were complimented often and were constantly referred to as "underrated".
However, after a good length of time, if a guy is consistently referred to as "underrated" is he still "underrated"? :)

great, balanced post.

[dempseyfire]

Is Schmeling overrated? It's interesting, because several months ago there was a thread about him being underrated. :) Most (though not all) people he was a bit underrated. ...

Schmeling (and Charles and Walcott for that matter) actually kind of reminds me of a few basketball players from the 1980's. Like Schmeling, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, and Joe Dumars were complimented often and were constantly referred to as "underrated".
However, after a good length of time, if a guy is consistently referred to as "underrated" is he still "underrated"? :)

great, balanced post.

Haha, Max Schmeling the 'Joe Dumars' of Heavyweight boxing.

[jaclem2]

..the definitive answer....schmeling was better than some, not as good as others.

[observer1]

Is Schmeling overrated?


In short, NO. Nearly every BOXREC member has him in their top 20 Heavyweights of all time, he's a regular up there at that level.

(Put it this way...Culd you name 20 heavyweights who your 90% sure that would be Schemling)

I know I can't.....

BUT

If your talking about great European Heavyweights, wouldn't Lennox Lewis go down as one of the greatest? OR (You could argue Marciano, he was an Italian-American, albeit born in America)...

European heavyweights it is something like
1 Lewis
2 Schmeling
3 Johannson
4 Vlad
5 Carnera (Carnera is a fighter who tends to get too bad reviews, imo)

WHoa whoa . . .you are selling a lot of European HWs short by making Wladimir Klitschko your # 4 Euro HW???

WHat about Joe Bugner? Tommy Farr? Paulino Uzucudun? Hell I'd rate Frank Bruno above Klitschko (and also pick Frank to KO Wlad in a mythical fight)

Indeed.
Frank Bruno would take both brothers to school

[Robinson]

20 guys who I think would beat the great German prize fighter Max
Schmelling... on a peak for peak basis...

in no particular order..

Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Ken Norton
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Michael Spinks
Wlad Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Lennox Lewis
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Floyd Patterson
Tim Witherspoon
Pinklon Thomas
Greg page
Tony Tubbs
Gerry Cooney
Chris Byrd
Jimmy Young
Andrew Golota
Earnie Shavers
Ron Lyle
Gene Tunney
Ezzard Charles

too name a few....that I think would beat Schmelling in a
peak for peak fight.

[Robinson]

But that is only my opinion.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Of that pretty solid list, I would remove the following candidates as favourites against a prime Schmeling...

Byrd
Cooney
Golota
Klitschko
Klitschko
Lyle
Norton
Page
Shavers
Spinks
Thomas
Tubbs
Witherspoon
Young

Schmeling-Norton would be just about even in the betting, IMO. It'd also be exceedingly difficult for me to pick a favourite were Schmeling to fight the likes of Byrd, Spinks, & Young, but I think I'd give The Black Uhlan Of The Rhine a slim edge.

[HomicideHenry]

If anything he's under-rated today, sadly he was never quite appreciated much in his own time either.