ITV having a few wobbles

[scrap iron]

This may be nit picking as the last two shows on ITV have been absolutely superb, but I noticed some of the punditry last night was a bit poor. I was cringeing when Barry McGuigan started giving Mick Hennessy advice on how he should promote Carl, saying he was "too young and immature" to take on the likes of Kessler. MH looked genuinely bemused at this. Duke McKenzie during the opening round of Barker v Mackay was going on about how well Barker can take a shot. Now I am a massive Darren Barker fan, but even I admit he hasn't got the best chin in the world and can't understand where Duke got his solid punch resistance theory from. Then John Rawlings a couple of times got the names Purdy and McDonagh mixed up and did the same again with Barker and Mackay. Although he did eventually apologised for doing so.

I know punditry looks easier then it is, but I do think ITV could benefit from a Richie Woodhall, Jim Watt or Johnny Nelson on their team.

[sweetscience]

i think assessment was honest & refreshing

why put him in with kessler next, makes no sense whatso eva

[scrap iron]

I agree it's a little early for those type of fights, but if Froch chooses to take on the likes Jermain Taylor and Mikkel Kessler next year he should be applauded for it. Joe Calzaghe is arguably our best ever super-middleweight, but I think his career stagnated when he started defending his title against the likes of Tocker Pudwill, Will McIntyre, Rick Thornberry etc.
I think my gripe was more how McGuigan seemed to be telling Mick Hennessy on how to do his job. I would have much preferred if McGuigan had done something like that to allegedly after one of Amir Khan's early ITV blowouts. I genuinely think Hennessy puts on better matches then Sports Network do.

[MR UNTOUCHABLE]

I don't mind the odd error, after all it can get exciting.

BUT.. I do HATE it when they over cook things. It makes my skin crawl!

Especially McGuigan. When Hatton left FW he said he was going nowhere, then he gets employed by somedody else and Hatton's terrific! F.A.L.S.E

[Coco]

Barry McGuigan knows zip. Fact.

I'm sure McGuigan knows plenty but he knows which side his bread is buttered on

[whicker]

I'm sure at one point Rawlings said Magee had lost to Vitali Klitschko!

Edit- I think I misheard slightly, just checked Magee's record and he lost to a vitali whoes second name sounds very like Klitschko.

[rhino222]

Barry McGuigan knows zip. Fact.

heard he used to ask you for career resumes of fighters that he was about to comment on on live tv.. !! is this true ant .. ?

[Twinkle Toes]

I think it was Bob Mee that coached McGuigan and the current going's on in the world of boxing :)

[Coco]

Thats really interesting, I had never heard any of that, my estimation of McGuigan goes down further!!
I have heard Smith is a nice bloke too, despite me having much regard for him as a commentator, what is your opinion on his knowledge?

[stujones]

Oh well, he doesn't get Buncey's, Bob Mee's, Colin Hart, or Ant Evans' lines when he commentates in the US.

Featherweight world champion, hall of famer knows zip about boxing -

As for the Kessler vs Froch line- sorry I completely agreed with the man, McGuigan - I think he was being as polite as possible in saying - let Froch earn a few quid before he gets smashed... and I for one agree with that.

[Chambers2]

Barry McGuigan knows zip. Fact.

heard he used to ask you for career resumes of fighters that he was about to comment on on live tv.. !! is this true ant .. ?

Right you are mate. Here are the details, as I never tire of telling them:

I worked as unpaid intern for Sky in summer of 2000 thanks to the main man over there Adam Smith (who is one of nicest guys you will ever meet). It was hard work and great experience. I was writing here and there for magazines the year before but this was still a major deal to me, to work for the No.1 boxing channel at the time.

One of my tasks was to print out Bob Mee’s fact sheets and notes on the upcoming show’s fights, add any other info I or the team felt was interesting, and fax it over to McGuigan so he could “cram” like a 16-year-old for his GCSEs before he rolled into the studio and pretend he knew WTF he was watching. On occassion, I would be asked to sit down with him and explain the styles of a fighter he'd never seen before (one was Shane Mosley, whom Barry had never, ever seen box before the first Oscar fight!).

After one especially rubbish performance by Bazza, Sky’s head of boxing Chris Brown took him aside and mentioned he really needed to pay closer attention to the Bob Mee notes before he showed up to work a live show. Instead of admitting that he could probably do more to justify the grotesque sum he was on for basically reading out aloud on TV, McGuigan tried to bullshit they he “hardly ever” got Mee’s notes faxed to him in a timely manner.

Luckily, the Sky team had long since tipped me off that this could happen to me and I had kept the fax receipt which proved Bazza had received said bio information. But the fact McGuigan would so readily – and repeatedly according to my co-workers - pass the buck on to an office junior lowered my estimation of him.

It was lowered further when, week after week, during the taping of the old “Ringside” show Sky used to have Bazza would say NOTHING for take after take on a particular topic. He’d let Steve Bunce or Colin Hart do all the talking and, if they had one, reveal whatever inside info they had gathered on whatever subject was up for discussion.

Then, during the final few takes, Bazza would repeat – sometimes word for word – whatever Bunce or Harty had said just moments before. And guess which take was edited into the programme? Bunce was livid with Sky for continuing to let Bazza steal his lines, words, info and thoughts and pass them off as his own and was wasn’t so very long after one of those incidents Bunce was replaced on the show by a Formula One writer.

If you ever wondered why Bunce and Bazza are a little frosty with each other on Setanta, now you know.

[stujones]

I actually like Smith on the big fights (although his ossssscccar de la hoya bit grates), his commentary on Castillo vs Corrales 1 was brilliant (reminded me of Rosenthal doing Hearns vs Duran). Just sometimes he can over do a pretty dull contest and not read it right.... he was way off with Cleverley vs A Bum.

[stujones]

No, but he'll get someone's - otherwise he'll go one for 5mins about that awesome Mosley v Yori Boy Campas rematch (!) he saw like he did on Sky that time.

And him being in the Hall of Fame is the reason myself and people like Tom Hauser don't vote anymore. Two world title fights and a shamrock is all it takes? Pathetic. Compare Bazza's record to Hamed's, who hasn't got in twice now, and tell me Bazza isn't in there to keep "Irish Eyes Smilin'"

Sorry its a bit of a sore point when I read columns by journo's and statistians - who I do have a great respect and admire in general, have a go at someone like McGuigan because he cannot remember a fella's name or seen a fight. Yes, there is nothing more unproffesional than a fighter not brushed up on TV - remember John Conteh on Channel 5 showing of Moorer vs Holyfield 2 - he changed his pick live on TV based on watching the promo for the first time! He admitted to making his initial pick based on only seeing Holyfield fight a few times and never seeing Moorer. Then he saw the promo, which showed Moorers best bits from fight 1 and said "well looking at the clip, seems like the kid has got his number I think he will win now!". However, both Barry and John can read a fight better than most, know about the psychology - know the tell tale signs, know the tactics post fight etc... that is knowing about this sport. Not how many titles did Shane Mosley win at what weight, against who etc? That is being a journo. Knowing how to read a fight is knowing about the sport.

Plus you are basing on your view on your experience 7 years ago - he might have changed.

As for Barry being in the Hall of Fame - his fault is it? Sounds like a personal grudge to me. Say what you like about Barry - he might have had a shorter career than Hamed, but Pedroza, Taylor and La Porte are better than anything Hamed faced - with the exception of Barrera.

[Autobarn]

Oh well, he doesn't get Buncey's, Bob Mee's, Colin Hart, or Ant Evans' lines when he commentates in the US.

Featherweight world champion, hall of famer knows zip about boxing -

As for the Kessler vs Froch line- sorry I completely agreed with the man, McGuigan - I think he was being as polite as possible in saying - let Froch earn a few quid before he gets smashed... and I for one agree with that.

How can you be so sure that he's going to get "smashed"?

David Haye would appear to be getting "smashed" on account of him fighting Vitali Klitschko if this fight goes ahead. I just don't see how Haye can be ready for this fight in any way following the Barrett fight.

Is it so certain that ex middles Taylor, maybe Pavlik, Abraham would smash Froch? His defence is open but his chin looks sound. Fighters like Adamek and Margarito have gotten away with poor defences to have excellent careers. Froch will either have to have an excellent chin, or simply use his long jab more to curtail a disaster.

[stujones]

I think Kessler, is a different kettle of fish to Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham etc.

If Pavlik, Taylor and Abraham haven't earned enough money - I would tell them to avoid Kessler also.

Froch's chin is sound, but Kessler hits hard, is acurate and I think would painfully stuff Froch on points.

[Autobarn]

I'm not so sure. I think a lot of ppl feel that Kessler v Froch would be like Kessler-Andrade. Yet if Froch si given time to mature, and have the discipline to use

I agree Kessler is very dangerous. The man is peerless at holding ring centre and dominating with long shots. He can also move to the sides and land big shots. However if you can outreahc him, if you can make him fight an uncomfortable pace, it can be different....Andrade, extremely tough yet basic, didn't win many rounds in my view (2, perhaps, on my card) yet he did have Kessler bleeding from the nose and it was physically hard on Kessler. Someone a bit sharper, more accurate, could do better.

I see Abraham as the biggest threat, but I'm not sure what Abraham's going to do, get a big fight at 160 or make that move up in weight that his body seems to need as he's struggled with 160 since Gevor. If Abraham lands I feel any 168-pounder may go...

I agree though, froch not ready for Kessler and Abraham as yet.

[tonyevs]

good thread this ...

[stujones]

I'm not so sure. I think a lot of ppl feel that Kessler v Froch would be like Kessler-Andrade. Yet if Froch si given time to mature, and have the discipline to use

I agree Kessler is very dangerous. The man is peerless at holding ring centre and dominating with long shots. He can also move to the sides and land big shots. However if you can outreahc him, if you can make him fight an uncomfortable pace, it can be different....Andrade, extremely tough yet basic, didn't win many rounds in my view (2, perhaps, on my card) yet he did have Kessler bleeding from the nose and it was physically hard on Kessler. Someone a bit sharper, more accurate, could do better.

I see Abraham as the biggest threat, but I'm not sure what Abraham's going to do, get a big fight at 160 or make that move up in weight that his body seems to need as he's struggled with 160 since Gevor. If Abraham lands I feel any 168-pounder may go...

I agree though, froch not ready for Kessler and Abraham as yet.

Which were actually the exact words McGuigan said "mature" and I do agree with that also. However, I think the main aim of being a champion is to make as much money as possible before risking the belt.

So either way, whether you think he can mature to beat Kessler, or whether you think he will always lose to kessler - we both agree that Hennessey would be a fool to get Kessler next, which is what Barry said.

[Lenny]

Good old Gabriel Clarke, how the hell did he get away with asking Wayne McCullough questions whilst he was working Alex Arthur's corner that time?

And like it or not, people know who McGuigan is and will listen to what he has to say, whether they're his words or not. And whilst I hate the idea of a world champion not being ready for a certain opponent (surely they are supposed to be number 1) I don't feel Froch is at all ready for Kessler

[stujones]

Got to say I agree with Stu and have to wonder who gave Bazza his lines for his world title fight, and his other big fights.

On the other hand there is no reason to discount Ant's thoughts.

It is a dilemma. I take the 'movie' view of this one. I have often sat there watching a film thinking 'Robert De Nero is not speaking his own sh*t in this one', it is the truth as well, someone else writes his words! All he has to do is speak them, if is f-ing easy.

On the other hand dragging the screenwriter into the studio and getting him to play Travis Bickle would have gone down badly, then again the screenwriter is a bit of a lad himself.

Bazza is brought in to provide colour analysis, whatever that is, viewers like to see this, no one gives two-halves of one f*ck if someone else has cooked up his lines.

Imagine if they kicked off the next broadcast by saying, "Right, we have given Barry the heave-oh, our analysis will be provide by the spotty lad we have working in the office this week." Even if the guy knows his onions (as Ant does, and he is not spotty either) we will all think, "Fecking hell ITV, you cheap bastards! I'm logging onto Boxrec!"

I will always remember McGuigan fondly for his pro-boxing argument on that terrible TV show advocating a ban on boxing, I don't care if someone else wrote his lines that night, he delivered them with a resonance that only experience can bring.

He does get on my tits at times though.

ITV need to get rid of Gabriel Clarke. I have some funny memories of his gym gaffes when they were preparing footage for an ITV broadcast some time ago. His cravat is lovely, his velvet tones could turn dust to mud, but it is time to go.

Yes, good point - and it seems like there is criticisms for McGuigan not being a stastitian aswell as a pundit, sorry but someone else is getting paid, well in Ant's case not paid in cash but shed loads in experience, for doing this role - so what is the problem. McGuigan is doing his job, Evans/Mee etc are doing theres.

It seems to be a criticism of Barry - for revising it like a 16 year old, that is HIS job.... it was the job of Mee etc to get the info to Barry - so what is the problem. At least Barry read the info, unlike the likes of John Conteh who performance PRE fight for Holyfield vs Moorer 2 was embarrising, and there have been plenty of others - Bruno, Eubank etc - who clearly disrespected the stat guy by not even reading/rehearsing the lines.

And nobody is feeding McGuigan lines post fight and thats where I like to hear the punditary.

[adamiw]

They aim at the casual armchair fan and do their best to pull the wool over their eyes.......to their credit, they have just aired a couple of quality shows and haven't dropped the sport in the manner many thought they would when Khan was allowed to slip away

The standard of commentary across the sport is pretty poor......Mckenzie, seems a lovely guy, but he is guilty of getting overexcited and his muddle in a words, he also has a tendancy to score a lot of even rounds....... not warmed to the Setanta new boy (Croft?) at all........of course, Ian Darke is head and shoulders above the rest

[DavidPayne]

Darkie was good but he didn't understand or appreciate the beauty of silence either.

Its 4.45 am Hopkins is entering the arena to fight someone, only me and my dog are watching in the whole world and the first bar of My Way drifts out - Darkie is all over it like Biggins after a Mini-Cheesecake stuffed up Robin Reid's arse - Christ Darkie, I'm not mainstream, I'm not even casual and frankly who else pays £15 quid for Hopkins unless they're a signed up boxing anorak?

Silence, let the event atmoshphere wash over me in surround sound, not loads of pre-prepared twaddle to explain the song choice to the Match of the Day crowd - THEY'RE NOT WATCHING THIS!!!!!!!

And the last Bernard they paid to see was 6ft 5, bald and always pulled Joan Sims.

[Counter-puncher]

Ian Darke glory moments #1: He spots Phil Collins ringside at a fight (a James Toney one, might be Toney-Williams) and says, "I never knew Phil Collins was a boxing fan. I must say, I loved his last album."

We all did Darkie.

aye I am pretty sure it was Toney - PCW

[Captain Hook]

I actually like Smith on the big fights (although his ossssscccar de la hoya bit grates), his commentary on Castillo vs Corrales 1 was brilliant (reminded me of Rosenthal doing Hearns vs Duran). Just sometimes he can over do a pretty dull contest and not read it right.... he was way off with Cleverley vs A Bum.

Yes I agree he was great on that one, and I sat next to his mum at a Wigan show once! She called him over and we chatted for a bit - Wales was there too - and he was a lovely guy...

[Captain Hook]

...and Darkie will always be my favourite, so many great boxing memories of mine were to the soundtrack of his enthusiastic shrills...... :)