Men's Amateur Rankings Released by Michael Smith

[415BOXING]

THE AMERICAN RANKINGS ARE A JOKE,MANY OF THE GUYS ARE PRO ALREADY,TO BAD WE COULDNT COME UP WITH A BETTER SYSTEM,SOME GUYS THAT ARE GOOD CAN AFFORD TO GO TO SOME OF THESE RANKING TOURNAMENTS,AND SOMETIMES LBC'S HAVE 2 OUTSTANDING FIGHTERS IN THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS AND 1 OR BOTH FIGHTS DONT ADVANCE TO GET THE POINTS

[boxmel]

THE AMERICAN RANKINGS ARE A JOKE,MANY OF THE GUYS ARE PRO ALREADY,

They are a little behind, aren't they......

TO BAD WE COULDNT COME UP WITH A BETTER SYSTEM,

And your suggestion is?

SOME GUYS THAT ARE GOOD CAN AFFORD TO GO TO SOME OF THESE RANKING TOURNAMENTS

The National PAL is the only ranking tournament where a boxer has to pay his own way.

,AND SOMETIMES LBC'S HAVE 2 OUTSTANDING FIGHTERS IN THE SAME WEIGHT CLASS AND 1 OR BOTH FIGHTS DONT ADVANCE TO GET THE POINTS

Sometimes this is true and the better man at the time wins.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I agree with you, Mel. What do you think about amateur boxing rankings considering or not considering who a boxer defeats in the actual calculation of the rankings? (Apart from the actual work that it would entail. . . I'm just talking in theory here

I think a ranking is more impressive and worthy if they are gained in a small number of ranking tournaments (we currently have 3) against other elite or semi-elite boxers. Having rankings based on who beat who at a local show or invitational doesn't produce a true picture, in my opinion. An elite boxer can lose on any given day but that doesn't mean his opponent is better. How many times have we seen a ranked/elite boxer beat only to have the boxer who beat him lose in the next round or so? Factoring in wins or losses at other than ranking tournaments would definitely water down said rankings to be almost meaningless (much like the number of title "belts" now available in the pros).

But what is so special about the rankings tournaments? If boxer A faces boxer B in a local show or invitational, why should that be ignored? (I'm playing devil's advocate)I agree with you, but that's the argument I hear. I guess it's just like the playoffs in sports. You may beat a team during the season when it doesn't "count" but nobody cares if you can win when you need to.

Now my question is does anyone know what makes a boxer elite and for him/her to get listed on the USA site. I think there are boxers that haven't won major tournament on the site, but I could be wrong.

[415BOXING]

DC,WHAT IS THE WEBSITE MICHAEL SMITH HAS,CAUSE I CAN POST RESULTS OF MOST OF THE NORTHERN CAL CLUB SHOW RESULTS,I'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK ON A INDEPENDENT SITE FOR MY CLUB HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO THAT WOULD POST ALL RESULTS FROM NORTHERN CAL

[DCAmateurBoxing]

DC,WHAT IS THE WEBSITE MICHAEL SMITH HAS,CAUSE I CAN POST RESULTS OF MOST OF THE NORTHERN CAL CLUB SHOW RESULTS,I'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK ON A INDEPENDENT SITE FOR MY CLUB HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO THAT WOULD POST ALL RESULTS FROM NORTHERN CAL

He doesn't have a website, but email me at [email protected] and I'll send it to him and put it up on my site too. He used to send it to ABA Boxing, but that site went down and admin disappeared. . .

He's doing the rankings currently and will have updated list including females in early January. He just sent me a list of "schoolboy" boxers that will be included in his junior boxer rankings next year when they are of age. I'll post it here as long as everybody promises to not give him a hard time on his selections I'm kidding. I'll post if you want. It's not ranked but I guess can be considered a list of boxers to watch that are doing well and are 16 years at the most. Here's his list . . .let the debate begin. lol. These are in no particular order. . .

USA (*just means that I have video of these boxers)
Jonathan Padilla
Gervonto Davis*
Emilio Sanchez
Ernesto Delgadillo
Lynryd Estrada*
Pedro Duran*
Marshall Sanchez
Julian Rodriguez*
Dusty Harrison*
Joey Bryant*
Ricardo Gallegos
Devon Adams
Anthony Sims Jr*
Cristino Ceballos
Brian Alvarez

RUSSIA
Artem Melkonyan
Shamil Guseinov
Magomed Dzhabrailov
Sergey Sobylinsky
Husein Baysangurov
Tigran Uzlyan
Igor Kharitonov
Magomed Shabanov
Ruslan Gilmanov
Stepan Nitkovskiy
Umar Salamov
Nikita Gavrillyuk
Lovari Mikhailenko
Idres Shkakhmanov

ENGLAND
Mark Leach
Simon o Driscoll

TURKEY
Yasin Yilmaz
Ihsan Erdogan
Serkan Sayin

ARMENIA
Vahe Sargsyan

MLD
Magomed Ibragimov

UKRAINE
Mykhailo Kharchikov
Khazar Aliyev
Ali Setitmemetov
Nazar Artukh
Mark Grechanov
Beyukkshy Mamedov

ROMANIA
James Damian Cherry

CZECHOSLOVAKIA
Patrik Balog

SERBIA
Goran Ali

ISRAEL
Sabeeh Zayad

[415BOXING]

DC,WHAT IS THE WEBSITE MICHAEL SMITH HAS,CAUSE I CAN POST RESULTS OF MOST OF THE NORTHERN CAL CLUB SHOW RESULTS,I'VE BEEN TRYING TO WORK ON A INDEPENDENT SITE FOR MY CLUB HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO THAT WOULD POST ALL RESULTS FROM NORTHERN CAL

He doesn't have a website, but email me at [email protected] and I'll send it to him and put it up on my site too. He used to send it to ABA Boxing, but that site went down and admin disappeared. . .
DC,WE HAVE 1 MORE SHOW HAPPENING THIS YEAR,THAT 1 IS ON DEC. 20TH AT MATEEN B.C. IN SACRAMENTO,IF I CAN GET THE RESULTS OF THAT SHOW I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU COULD POST IT,AND IN THE FUTURE I WOULD DEFINETLY LIKE TO WORK WITH YOU AND HAVE THE RESULTS OF LBC #38 NORTHERN CALIFORNIA POSTED ON YOUR WEBSITE,I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR ALL THE LBC'S TO WORK TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW GET ALL CLUB SHOWS POSTED SO MAYBE RANKINGS COULD BE MORE FAIR,I KNOW THATS ALOT TO ASK FOR,BUT HEY SOMEONE NEEDS TO START IT,WHY NOT US!

[boxmel]

ALL THE LBC'S TO WORK TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW GET ALL CLUB SHOWS POSTED

That's a huge undertaking - especially when you have a LBC as busy as SoCal with two, if not three, local shows every weekend.

SO MAYBE RANKINGS COULD BE MORE FAIR,

LBC show results will never impact national rankings, nor should they. And to factor them in on independent rankings would really water them down.

[teasy24]

Now my question is does anyone know what makes a boxer elite and for him/her to get listed on the USA site. I think there are boxers that haven't won major tournament on the site, but I could be wrong.

If a boxer made it to the semi-finals of a major USAB tournament then they filled out a form and was placed on the elite boxers list. So no they may not have ever won a major tourney but a semi final in the US Championships is going to get you placed on their website because it is more credible than winning the GG. That's just the way they do it.

[boxmel]

If a boxer made it to the semi-finals of a major USAB tournament then they filled out a form and was placed on the elite boxers list. So no they may not have ever won a major tourney but a semi final in the US Championships is going to get you placed on their website because it is more credible than winning the GG. That's just the way they do it.

I believe the "elite" group consists of the top 5 ranked in each weight class. The actual rankings are done on a points system - so many points for winning a championship (PAL, GG or U.S. Championships) and lesser points on down to #10. Points are also given for international dual meets and AIBA tournaments. The yearly rankings used to start with the U.S. Championships. Now that the GG tournament is before the USC, I have no idea what they'll do. Will be most interesting to see if the rankings are started with the GG next year.

[415BOXING]

ALL THE LBC'S TO WORK TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW GET ALL CLUB SHOWS POSTED

That's a huge undertaking - especially when you have a LBC as busy as SoCal with two, if not three, local shows every weekend. YES IT IS,BUT ITS A SACRIFICE FOR ALL OF US WHO LOVE AMATEUR BOXING,ALSO ITS GREAT TO SEE THE RESULTS OF THESE SHOWS FROM OTHER LBC'S,LOTS OF THE FIGHTERS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO HAVE BOXED A CERTAIN BOXER FROM ANOTHER PART OF THE COUNTRY WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW THEIR OPPONENT DID ON LOCAL SHOWS

SO MAYBE RANKINGS COULD BE MORE FAIR,

LBC show results will never impact national rankings, nor should they. And to factor them in on independent rankings would really water them down.

THEY SHOULD,IF BOXER A BEATS BOXER B AT THE CLUB LEVEL 3 OR 4 TIMES,BUT BOXER B BEATS BOXER A AT A TOURNAMENT DO U THINK BOXER A SHOULDNT BE RECOGNIZED FOR THOSE VICTORIES AT THE CLUB LEVEL?

[415BOXING]

ALL THE LBC'S TO WORK TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW GET ALL CLUB SHOWS POSTED

That's a huge undertaking - especially when you have a LBC as busy as SoCal with two, if not three, local shows every weekend.

I HAVE SEEN RESULTS FROM THE SOCAL LBC,AND FROM WHAT I SAW THERE WERE NOT MORE THAN 10-12 BOUTS PER SHOW,NOW I KNOW EVERY SHOW IS DIFFERENT BUT IF CHIEF OF OFFICIALS WORKED WITH OTHERS TO RELAY THE INFORMATION SO THAT RESULTS COULD BE POSTED IT WOULD BE NICE,I KNOW UP HERE IN NORCAL I CAN GET THE RESULTS FROM MOST SHOWS,I NEED TO GET A WEBSITE OF MY OWN BECAUSE MY GOAL IS TO POST OUR OWN RESULTS FROM LBC #38,THEN TRY TO WORK WITH CENTRAL CAL AND THEN SO ON

[boxmel]

HAVE SEEN RESULTS FROM THE SOCAL LBC,AND FROM WHAT I SAW THERE WERE NOT MORE THAN 10-12 BOUTS PER SHOW

10-12 is a slow day. D We normally have 15-20 bouts.

IF CHIEF OF OFFICIALS WORKED WITH OTHERS TO RELAY THE INFORMATION SO THAT RESULTS COULD BE POSTED IT WOULD BE NICE,I

And the results would be posted where and by who? It is a huge undertaking to set up a web site and then keep it updated - I know.

THEY SHOULD,IF BOXER A BEATS BOXER B AT THE CLUB LEVEL 3 OR 4 TIMES,BUT BOXER B BEATS BOXER A AT A TOURNAMENT DO U THINK BOXER A SHOULDNT BE RECOGNIZED FOR THOSE VICTORIES AT THE CLUB LEVEL?

No. It would totally water down any rankings and probably change so often your head would spin. Plus it's the national ranking tournaments that count - not the local shows. I also doubt seriously that the USOC would approve, since they are the ones who dole out the stipends to the elite boxers.

[Dennis]

If a boxer made it to the semi-finals of a major USAB tournament then they filled out a form and was placed on the elite boxers list. So no they may not have ever won a major tourney but a semi final in the US Championships is going to get you placed on their website because it is more credible than winning the GG. That's just the way they do it.

Winning a Nat'l GG is very difficult and in some cases it is more difficult than winning the US Championships. If you said it is more difficult than winning the PAL, in most cases I would agree.

[boxmel]

Winning a Nat'l GG is very difficult and in some cases it is more difficult than winning the US Championships.

Bein' nosey, Dennis - why do you say the above?????

[415BOXING]

And the results would be posted where and by who? It is a huge undertaking to set up a web site and then keep it updated - I know.
[quote]
WELL MEL IM WORKING ON GETTING MT SITE ONLINE SOON,SO MAYBE SOMEONE FROM SOCAL WILL WORK WITH ME TO GET THE RESULTS FROM THE SOCAL SHOWS,MAYBE YOU?

[boxmel]

WELL MEL IM WORKING ON GETTING MT SITE ONLINE SOON,SO MAYBE SOMEONE FROM SOCAL WILL WORK WITH ME TO GET THE RESULTS FROM THE SOCAL SHOWS,MAYBE YOU?

I don't go to all the shows and I barely have enough time to keep my own web site updated. 8) Are you coming to the State SG next month? If so, I'll put you in touch with the people who might be able to help you.

[415BOXING]

WELL MEL IM WORKING ON GETTING MT SITE ONLINE SOON,SO MAYBE SOMEONE FROM SOCAL WILL WORK WITH ME TO GET THE RESULTS FROM THE SOCAL SHOWS,MAYBE YOU?

I don't go to all the shows and I barely have enough time to keep my own web site updated. 8) Are you coming to the State SG next month? If so, I'll put you in touch with the people who might be able to help you.

MEL ,YOU MEAN THE SILVER GLOVES REGIONALS,THE STATE SILVER GLOVES WERE DECEMBER 6&7,BUT NO I WONT BE THERE,I ENTERED ONLY 2 IN THE TOURNAMENT THIS YEAR,1 GOT REALLY ROBBED IN THE JUNIOR 85LB CLASS UP HERE IN NORTHERN AND MY 8 YR OLD 80LB WON BY W/O UP HERE BUT HAD NO FIGHTS SO I DIDNT WANT TO BRING HIM DOWN TO CARSON WITH NO EXPERIENCE,BUT IF YOU COULD PUT ME IN TOUGH WITH SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK WITH ME TO GET ALL THE SOCAL RESULTS IT WOULD BE GREAT,WHAT MY GOAL IS THIS YEAR IS TO GET MY WEBSITE ONLINE AND GET ALL OF CALIFORNIAS RESULTS ONLINE,YES ITS A BIG TASK BUT WITH SOME HELP I THINK I CAN GET IT DONE

[boxmel]

MEL ,YOU MEAN THE SILVER GLOVES REGIONALS,

Sigh. Getting old sucks. Yep, you're right. D

BUT IF YOU COULD PUT ME IN TOUGH

Email me at [email protected] and I'll give you the contact information for our COO.

[Dennis]

Winning a Nat'l GG is very difficult and in some cases it is more difficult than winning the US Championships.

Bein' nosey, Dennis - why do you say the above?????

There are many boxers who enter the GG who don't enter the Senior Open tournament (U.S. Championships). A boxer in the Michigan GG may have to box 5 times to win the state tourney, but may only box once or twice to win the Michigan Senior Open tourney. The New York Metro GG is difficult to win as those guys can box even more. Then when the boxers move on to the NGG, they will often have to box 5 times in 5 or 6 days to win the NGG. The U.S. Championships is similar, but many LBC's do not send full teams so a boxer will often only have to box 3 or 4 times to win the U.S. Championships.

It does go both ways as there are a few boxers who don't compete in the NGG and its feeder tournaments, but I think there are just as many or more who don't compete in the U.S. Championships and its feeder tournaments.

[boxmel]

but I think there are just as many or more who don't compete in the U.S. Championships and its feeder tournaments.

Could be - but most of the names you see in GG also pop up at the U.S. Championships - at least in the elite group. And, you're right, some don't. You only see them in GG and then they fade away. 8)

[Kolya]

The National PAL is the only ranking tournament where a boxer has to pay his own way.

Unless you're female.

[boxmel]

Unless you're female.

Huh? Should I have said "his/her own way?"

[boxmel]

Since when do women get their way paid to Women's Golden Gloves?

They don't. PAL pays for their women to go to the U.S. Championships.

[boxmel]

I'm not sure what you are asking, Amy. As long as women's boxing is NOT an Olympic sport, there is no funding from the USOC. In the past, Foundation money paid expenses for women going to the Championships and international events but they no longer do. PAL and GG, as group members, can decide if they spend money on the women, or not. IF women's boxing IS included in the 2012 Olympics, any qualifying women will be treated just like the men with regard to needed funding.

[boxmel]

Since the USOC funds the men and does not the women, there is no total equality. And there is nothing USA Boxing can do about it. Hopefully, Millman is raising money to fund the women's program. You can email him at [email protected] and ask.