ITV having a few wobbles

[Autobarn]

They aim at the casual armchair fan and do their best to pull the wool over their eyes.......to their credit, they have just aired a couple of quality shows and haven't dropped the sport in the manner many thought they would when Khan was allowed to slip away

The standard of commentary across the sport is pretty poor......Mckenzie, seems a lovely guy, but he is guilty of getting overexcited and his muddle in a words, he also has a tendancy to score a lot of even rounds....... not warmed to the Setanta new boy (Croft?) at all........of course, Ian Darke is head and shoulders above the rest

Ian Darke glory moments #1: He spots Phil Collins ringside at a fight (a James Toney one, might be Toney-Williams) and says, "I never knew Phil Collins was a boxing fan. I must say, I loved his last album."

We all did Darkie.

I think it was Toney-Barkley. Which album was it?

[hitman_hatton1]

darke's the main man.

his best moment is still that holyfield-bowe knockdown in the 3rd fight.

"that's extraordinary"

good story that one ant.

despite the fact you've told it before.

surprised DG ain't all over that the skank.

[banjo]

I'd take any of the Brit commentary teams over the HBO lot

[scrap iron]

Barry McGuigan knows zip. Fact.

I'm taking Ant Evans side on this one. I remember when Evander Holyfield knocked out Adilson Rodriques and McGuigan described Rodriques as "the big fella from Mexico". Later on that show McGuigan was telling everyone that Riddick Bowe would be a lot heavier by the time he got into the ring then what he weighed the day before. The other studio guest allegedly explained this wouldn't be the case as a heavyweight like Riddick Bowe wouldn't need dry out to make the weight, but McGuigan simply seemed puzzled by this explanation.

Barry McGuigan was a fine fighter and obviously understands boxing, put his punditry is very sloppy.

Jim Watt is the exact opposite, a true master in his field. Johnny Nelson and Richie Woodhall show a lot of promise as well.

[stujones]

McGuigan has improved as he got older, he was pretty shappy in the early 90's..... but he was only in his early 30's also.

[scrap iron]

Unfortunately being a great sportsman doesn't necessarily mean who are automatically going to have a knowledge of your sport. George Best was one of the greatest ever footballers, but on Sky Sports on Saturday mornings when he was being asked his thoughts on the upcoming matches it soon became train wreck television to watch, yet Sky put up with him because he was the great George Best.

[Punchy Joe]

Froch is 31 years old and waited for his shot a damn long time. If he's not ready for Kessler now, he never will be. What's the point in pissing about, we all want to see the best fight the best don't we???

[Chambers2]

Froch is 31 years old and waited for his shot a damn long time. If he's not ready for Kessler now, he never will be. What's the point in pissing about, we all want to see the best fight the best don't we???

I totally agree, if you're a World Champ you should be willing to fight anyone in the division.

[bennie]

Sorry its a bit of a sore point when I read columns by journo's and statistians - who I do have a great respect and admire in general, have a go at someone like McGuigan because he cannot remember a fella's name or seen a fight. Yes, there is nothing more unproffesional than a fighter not brushed up on TV - remember John Conteh on Channel 5 showing of Moorer vs Holyfield 2 - he changed his pick live on TV based on watching the promo for the first time! He admitted to making his initial pick based on only seeing Holyfield fight a few times and never seeing Moorer. Then he saw the promo, which showed Moorers best bits from fight 1 and said "well looking at the clip, seems like the kid has got his number I think he will win now!". However, both Barry and John can read a fight better than most, know about the psychology - know the tell tale signs, know the tactics post fight etc... that is knowing about this sport. Not how many titles did Shane Mosley win at what weight, against who etc? That is being a journo. Knowing how to read a fight is knowing about the sport.

Remember Conteh's awful performance on that fight! Worst ever, I would agree. Having a mutual friend with John and sat in a room with him during mainy a live TV fight, I can tell you John isn't a great reader of fights at all.

Sadly, Barry Mac is now what most consider a journalist. Hasn't he had a national newspaper column for years and years, after all? And on TV his thoughts are supposed to be well-crafted views, are they not? You seperation from "knowing" boxing, ie reading a fight, and knowing about a specific fighter make no sense to me though mate.

If you've never seen (eg) DLH or Pac-Man fight, didn't see their biggest wins or worst losses or fights against common opponents, how on Earth can you call the fight? Picking out that (eg) Mosley won the fight with a great jab and smart use of counter left hook after missed right crosses IS insightful, sure, but not so much as saying it may happen BEFORE the fight.

Plus you are basing on your view on your experience 7 years ago - he might have changed.

Get told so many stories so often I doubt it! Got told once by a certain boxing writer the other week which had me in tears of laughter.

As for Barry being in the Hall of Fame - his fault is it? Sounds like a personal grudge to me. Say what you like about Barry - he might have had a shorter career than Hamed, but Pedroza, Taylor and La Porte are better than anything Hamed faced - with the exception of Barrera.

Hardly a grudge, just don't respect him or his opinions on boxing. And Hamed would have smashed him to bits inside 4 rounds. And Hamed would have beaten the Pedroza Barry beat inside 8 rounds too. And don't even try to claim Steve Cruz would have stopped Naz... ;;-)

Steve Cruz didn't stop Barry, either.

[stujones]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing. So what you don't respect him as a fighter now?

I agree with you are saying about the difference between insightful and being knowledgable. However, Barry doesn't just get asked for "his" (okay someone elses) words before the fight, and after (his own thoughts I would imagine) but also during.... thats when Boxing knowledge is important, that is where Watt excels, and that is where Barry is better than McCory and Nelson... who are probably more articulate and knowledgable pundits.

[dondada]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing.

Because you can have no respect for someone or their opinions and it not be a grudge.

[scrap iron]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing. So what you don't respect him as a fighter now?

I agree with you are saying about the difference between insightful and being knowledgable. However, Barry doesn't just get asked for "his" (okay someone elses) words before the fight, and after (his own thoughts I would imagine) but also during.... thats when Boxing knowledge is important, that is where Watt excels, and that is where Barry is better than McCory and Nelson... who are probably more articulate and knowledgable pundits.

I honestly don't think Ant Evans has a grudge against McGuigan, more a case of not rating him as a fighter or pundit as highly as you do.
Watt and Nelson make good pundits because of a genuine dedication they have to being knowledgable about the sport, which doesn't mean they are reliant on other people telling them how good or bad a fighter is before they go on air. As a former boxer, yes McGuigan has a knack of reading a fight mid-contest, but that doesn't excuse the sloppiness of his pre-fight comments.

[stujones]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing.

Because you can have no respect for someone or their opinions and it not be a grudge.

Yes, I agree - but how can a boxing fan not have respect for a world champion of McGuigan's stature?

[DavidPayne]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing. So what you don't respect him as a fighter now?

I agree with you are saying about the difference between insightful and being knowledgable. However, Barry doesn't just get asked for "his" (okay someone elses) words before the fight, and after (his own thoughts I would imagine) but also during.... thats when Boxing knowledge is important, that is where Watt excels, and that is where Barry is better than McCory and Nelson... who are probably more articulate and knowledgable pundits.

I honestly don't think Ant Evans has a grudge against McGuigan, more a case of not rating him as a fighter or pundit as highly as you do.
Watt and Nelson make good pundits because of a genuine dedication they have to being knowledgable about the sport, which doesn't mean they are reliant on other people telling them how good or bad a fighter is before they go on air. As a former boxer, yes McGuigan has a knack of reading a fight mid-contest, but that doesn't excuse the sloppiness of his pre-fight comments.

I suggest you read Johnny Nelson's preview of the second heavyweight Prizefighter tourney - the records he was supplied were skewed and he obviously, and I mean obviously, based his preview on them. It was shocking. Ingleby or whatever his name was a big contender in it according to Johnny.

Nobody is beyond reproach, McCrory is bad too and tows the line when he has to. McGuigan is very guilty of "this kid is world class" after he just beat Dariusz Snarksi.

And Bennie - that was a cold put down about Cruz.

[stujones]

I know what your saying, but I do think a fight fan should have a respect for a boxer, especially one who has won a world title and hasn't, as far as I am aware, done nothing majorily harmful outside the ring and certainly didn't waste his talent. Saying you don't rate someone has highly is one thing, saying you don't respect someone is all together different.

I'm not saying all fight fans MUST respect all fighters. Like there is no way I will respect Paul King, Gary Delaney, Georgie Smith etc - but world champions, good role models should surely be respected by fight fans.

[dondada]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing.

Because you can have no respect for someone or their opinions and it not be a grudge.

Yes, I agree - but how can a boxing fan not have respect for a world champion of McGuigan's stature?

I'm sure Ant respects him as a boxer - but doesn't think he deserves the Hall of Fame plaudits, etc - and to be fair, there are probably plenty of more worthy candidates for entry than Bazza.

[stujones]

Yes I agree Ian completely, and I hope I simply misinterpreted Ant's words. He did say the he didn't respect him and his knowledge on boxing.

[scrap iron]

How can you say it is not a grudge when you say you don't respect HIM OR his opinions on boxing. So what you don't respect him as a fighter now?

I agree with you are saying about the difference between insightful and being knowledgable. However, Barry doesn't just get asked for "his" (okay someone elses) words before the fight, and after (his own thoughts I would imagine) but also during.... thats when Boxing knowledge is important, that is where Watt excels, and that is where Barry is better than McCory and Nelson... who are probably more articulate and knowledgable pundits.

I honestly don't think Ant Evans has a grudge against McGuigan, more a case of not rating him as a fighter or pundit as highly as you do.
Watt and Nelson make good pundits because of a genuine dedication they have to being knowledgable about the sport, which doesn't mean they are reliant on other people telling them how good or bad a fighter is before they go on air. As a former boxer, yes McGuigan has a knack of reading a fight mid-contest, but that doesn't excuse the sloppiness of his pre-fight comments.

I suggest you read Johnny Nelson's preview of the second heavyweight Prizefighter tourney - the records he was supplied were skewed and he obviously, and I mean obviously, based his preview on them. It was shocking. Ingleby or whatever his name was a big contender in it according to Johnny.

Nobody is beyond reproach, McCrory is bad too and tows the line when he has to. McGuigan is very guilty of "this kid is world class" after he just beat Dariusz Snarksi.

And Bennie - that was a cold put down about Cruz.

Hmm, I'm not really sure about what you're saying David. I'm sure Nelson was backing Lee Swaby in Prizefighter 2 because of the fact Johnny had sparred and trained with Swaby and had spoken to Swaby beforehand and knew he was really up for it. He certainly didn't come across as someone who had made a prediction from being given skewed records.
It seems to me Nelson often starts pre-fight preview "whenever I watch this kid...." or "the reason I really him is because......" which makes it sound like Johnny has actually seen the fighters he is talking about box many times before.
Duke and Bazza sound like they are just quoting lines out of a wikipedia search when they do their pre-fight comments (or a fax from Ant Evans!!).
For the record I respect them both as boxers, but just not as pundits. I agree with you that McCory is sometimes poor, but I wouldn't go far as to say "nobody is beyond reproach". Jim Watt and Richie Woodhall are excellent. This will probably go down like a lead balloon, but I think Steve Bunce is a brillant pundit and as far as I know he has never laced a boxing glove on in his life.