Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Dongee]

You are so right! I often think it is me that's off key....but no! The game, the players, the advice by the cornermen, the whole concept that was boxing years ago has been filtered, little by little, out of the most competetive, individualistic struggle for fame and fortune known to man. It's not same, IMO. Maybe it's got to be as old-timer Art Martell used to tell me......"Boxing has to die, to be born again."

hap navarro

[raylawpc]

Hap posted this at the CBZ

You're a real old timer if you can remember when:

(1) The referee would raise both hands over his head and flick his fingers skyward at the end of a fight to signify it was a draw.

(2) Gloves for the main event were brought into the ring, in sealed boxes, to be opened and donned on the contestants. Only the prelim fighters had their gloves put on in the dressing room.

(3) Referee Lt. Jack Kennedy would stand in the center of the ring at the end of each round and point to the corner of the fighter who won the round. When he stopped doing that, he would wait until the end of the eigth round, stand in center ring, point at each fighter while counting out the number of rounds they had won thus far. A human scoreboard no less.

(4) A two-foot square box containing resin chunks was a fixture at a neutral corner of the ring. It was used by the fighters to gain traction on their feet before the first bell sounded.

(5) The announcer carried a round cardboard disc into the ring, black on one side, white on the other, which he would toss into the air to determine the respective corners occupied by the fighters.

If you remember seeing any of this you are, indeed, an old timer.

hap navarro

I can remember 3 out of 5

#2 #4 #5

We used to do (2) back in Oklahoma City for "important" main events. For example, I specifically remember it when Brian Kelly fought Bob Foster for the title, and, later, when Kelly fought Mike Quarry. I know we did it other times, but I don't remember anything specifically except those two.

[dagosd2000]

Hap.Frank,and the rest of the gang,

We had a card in San Diego a few months ago. It was at the Sheraton. I was starving for some real boxing so I was there. One of the stables represented was ,I think called,City Boxing. It's one of those Ultimate fighting gyms that has a little bit of everything for men and women. The other side of the card was from across the border. They were 4 and 6 round bouts.

Well the boys from this City Boxing were raw as could be. No amateur experience. It showed in the ring. Everything from balance to throwing a jab was Beginning Boxing 101. The fellas' from Mexico were just as unskilled. Each side tried their best,but without enough training and experienced trainers ,they were ineffective against each other. But I had a good time. The crowd was a boxing crowd,like me,hurting to see the fights again live.

Back to these Ultimate fighting gyms that have a little of everything.
Like the the saying goes,"A little knowlege is dangerous."

[Rick Farris]

I remember seeing Heath's two fights against Manuel Ramos at the Olympic, winning the first one and losing the second one, I think thats how it went down.

What did you think of him?

Tom, both Heath and Ramos were tough fighters, with limited skills, can't say much more on them.

After Heath took the body shot and went down, the packed gym began to howl as he crapped his trunks. His skin looked greyish in tone. Liston didn't change his expression, just went to his cornerman and got some water. The mess was removed, including Heath, and then another sparring partner climbed in. I was a teenager. I watched Sonny Liston closely that day, he wasn't the first former heavyweight champ I'd seen in that ring. The year before, Floyd Patterson worked in that ring for his fight with Jerry Quarry. I'd also seen Frazier (who'd only a had four fights at the time), and eventually I'd see Foreman and Ali there, Quarry dozens of times and Amos "Big Train" Lincoln (another former Liston sparring partner and opponent). Point is, I've seen dozens of the best heavyweights of the era, and a few all-time greats, but NOBODY left an impression on me like Sonny Liston. He didn't smile or speak with anybody that I can remember. I followed him back to the dressing room area and took a seat on the bench outside his small room. As he pulled off his wraps he looked out and saw me staring at him. He just looked at me and I just looked back, deliberatly not looking away although I was uncomfortable. He suddenly began to smile and nodded at me. I know I smiled back and nodded at him. I felt good because he acknowledged me and hadn't anybody else that day in the gym. Strange what little events remain big in one's mind for more than four decades. Liston was a simple person, with basic tastes. He liked double vodka rocks, women, gambling and that's about it. He had no education, could barely write and just did whaever he had to do to survive. In Las Vegas, he was impossible to control, did what he wanted, ran up a lot of gambling debt, would take hookers in two at a time to his room, hold 'em hostage for a couple days and when they came out they were ready for another line of work. Johnny Tocco says the heroin overdose was a set-up. Liston's poison was vodka, not drugs. "He was scared to death of needles", Tocco claims. "Hell, he actually passed out when having blood drawn for his boxing license exam each year."

Today, in a cemetary located right below the flight path of McCarron Airport in Vegas, lies Sonny Liston. His head stone is very simple, it reads . . .

Charles "Sonny" Liston - A Man. That's all.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Hap posted this at the CBZ

You're a real old timer if you can remember when:

(1) The referee would raise both hands over his head and flick his fingers skyward at the end of a fight to signify it was a draw.

(2) Gloves for the main event were brought into the ring, in sealed boxes, to be opened and donned on the contestants. Only the prelim fighters had their gloves put on in the dressing room.

(3) Referee Lt. Jack Kennedy would stand in the center of the ring at the end of each round and point to the corner of the fighter who won the round. When he stopped doing that, he would wait until the end of the eigth round, stand in center ring, point at each fighter while counting out the number of rounds they had won thus far. A human scoreboard no less.

(4) A two-foot square box containing resin chunks was a fixture at a neutral corner of the ring. It was used by the fighters to gain traction on their feet before the first bell sounded.

(5) The announcer carried a round cardboard disc into the ring, black on one side, white on the other, which he would toss into the air to determine the respective corners occupied by the fighters.

If you remember seeing any of this you are, indeed, an old timer.

hap navarro

I can remember 3 out of 5

#2 #4 #5

I can only remember #4 & #5

-Rick

[kikibalt]

You are so right! I often think it is me that's off key....but no! The game, the players, the advice by the cornermen, the whole concept that was boxing years ago has been filtered, little by little, out of the most competetive, individualistic struggle for fame and fortune known to man. It's not same, IMO. Maybe it's got to be as old-timer Art Martell used to tell me......"Boxing has to die, to be born again."

hap navarro

No, Hap, you're not off key, the game is not the same as it was when there were shows 3-4 some time 5 days a week, fighters learned their trade back then by fighting often and most trainers were full time trainers and not part time trainers. Most of the cornermen you see working corners nowdays are no more then 24-25 years old, you know that at that age they haven't spent the time it takes to learn be a good trainer, we old timers get flack for saying things like this, we say it because we were there back then and we're here now and we can see the difference, 'Asi es, 'asi serd

[Rick Farris]

George Chuvalo

John Bardelli had a chance to speak with Chuvalo at the WBHOF banquet. Asked about what he thought of today's heavyweights? You can imagine the reaction of a guy who fought Ali, Patterson, Foreman, Frazier, Quarry and dozens of other top heavyweights from a tough era . . .

-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

You are so right! I often think it is me that's off key....but no! The game, the players, the advice by the cornermen, the whole concept that was boxing years ago has been filtered, little by little, out of the most competetive, individualistic struggle for fame and fortune known to man. It's not same, IMO. Maybe it's got to be as old-timer Art Martell used to tell me......"Boxing has to die, to be born again."

hap navarro

Hap
"Boxing has to die,to be born again."
The sport is dying. The heavyweights are breathing their death rattle. The lighter weights are still frisky. But if it dies, will it be reborn? When they're are not enough people around that remember or can recognize what a boxing match is. When there aren't any teachers who can educate a man who wants to fight with gloves on.
Boxing will be something to looked at in film or read in books,if people still want to read. The criticism will be that boxing is a limited way of fighting. Kicking and gauging and tackling the man is what they want to see.

After the WBHOF Banquet some of the BoxRec guys went to repair in the lounge. I'll never forget one moment. There was a small TV at our table. A replay of a Ultimate Fighting match for who was the baddest dude on the planet was on the screen. At the buzzer the two beasts came out.Within 40 seconds one guy telegraphed a right hand and clipped the other. He went down like he was shot. The punch was awkward and slow. After being pounced on ,the "fight"was over.

Next highlight was a shot of Lacey and Taylor. A fight that won't be mentioned in the same breath with Graziano and Zale. Brian was sitting next to me. We saw Taylor counter a Lacey lead with a pretty uppercut. The punch didn't result in an ending,but exemplified the art of scientific punching. Beautifull to watch. That punch by Taylor could hsve also won him the title of Ultimate Fighting Champion that night.

The fan today of combat in the ring is growing in favor of kicking and tackling and gauging. That's not beautifull to watch,nor does it require the effort and sacrafice of fighters and trainers to learn a pretty uppercut counter that made guys like me and Brian that night at the Marriott take notice. I guess you have to have a trained eye to appreciate things like that.

[kikibalt]

Sammy Baugh dies at 94; pioneering NFL quarterback

Reporting from Lubbock, Texas -- Sammy Baugh, who set numerous passing records with the Washington Redskins in an era when NFL teams were running on almost every down, died Wednesday night at Fisher County Hospital in Rotan, Texas. He was 94.

Baugh had battled Alzheimer's and dementia for several years, said his son, David Baugh. He had been ill recently with kidney problems, low blood pressure and double pneumonia.

"It wasn't the same Sam we all knew," his son said. "He just finally wore out."

After starring at Texas Christian University, "Slingin' Sammy" Baugh played with the Redskins from 1937 to 1952 and led the league in passing six times. Baugh guided the Redskins to five title games and two championships, playing his entire career without a face mask. His No. 33 is the only jersey Washington has retired.

Though he was noted for his passing, Baugh was one of the best all-around players of his day. One season he led the league in passing, defensive interceptions and punting. In one game, he threw four touchdown passes and intercepted four passes. He threw six touchdowns in a game -- twice -- and kicked an 85-yard punt.

"Sammy Baugh embodied all we aspire to at the Washington Redskins," Redskins owner Dan Snyder said. "He was a competitor in everything he did and a winner. He was one of the greatest to ever play the game of football, and one of the greatest the Redskins ever had."

Baugh was the last surviving member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame's inaugural class in 1963.

He was an All-Pro selection nine times during his career and was voted to the NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and to the NFL's 1940s All-Decade Team.

"There's nobody any better than Sam Baugh was in pro football," Don Maynard, a fellow West Texas Hall of Famer who played for Baugh, said in 2002. "When I see somebody picking the greatest player around, to me, if they didn't go both ways (playing offense and defense), they don't really deserve to be nominated. I always ask, 'Well, how'd he do on defense? How was his punting?' "

When Baugh entered the NFL in 1937, the forward pass was so rare that it was unveiled mostly in desperate situations. In his first year, only six passers averaged three completions a game that year. But Baugh passed any time in any situation.

As a rookie, he completed 91 passes in 218 attempts and led the league with 1,127 yards. He led the Redskins to the NFL championship game against the Chicago Bears, throwing three touchdown passes in Washington's 28-21 victory.

Baugh still holds Redskins records for career touchdown passes (187) and completion percentage in a season (70.3%). His 31 interceptions on defense are third on the team's career list. He still owns the league mark for single-season punting average at 51.4 yards per kick.

One of his more memorable performances came against the Chicago Cardinals in November 1947. Playing in old Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C., Baugh passed for 355 yards and six touchdowns. Although the Redskins had a losing season that year, finishing with a 4-8 record, Baugh had career highs in completions (210), pass attempts (354) and touchdown passes (25). He led the league in each of those categories as well as total yards with 2,938.

"He was amazing, just tremendously accurate," Eddie LeBaron, who took over as Washington's quarterback in Baugh's last season, said in 2002. "He could always find a way to throw it off balance. I've seen him throw the ball overarm, sidearm and underarm and complete them."

After leaving the Redskins in 1952, Baugh coached at Hardin-Simmons University, compiling a 23-28 record in four years.

He was the first coach of the American Football League's New York Titans, compiling a 14-14 record in 1960 and 1961. In 1964, he coached the AFL's Houston Oilers to a 4-10 record.

Baugh was born March 17, 1914, on a farm near Temple, Texas.

He was a high school football, baseball and basketball player in Sweetwater, Texas. His legend began to grow during his college days at TCU.

It was there that he picked up the nickname "Slingin' Sammy" -- but it wasn't for his passing. It was for the rockets he fired to first base as a shortstop and third baseman.

"Everybody thought I was a better baseball player growing up," he said in 2002. "I thought I was going to be a big league baseball player."

An All-American football player in 1935 and 1936, he led TCU to a 29-7-3 mark, including Sugar Bowl and Cotton Bowl victories.

He masterfully executed an early ancestor of the West Coast offense at TCU, and he credits Horned Frogs Coach Dutch Meyer with his NFL success.

Baugh was known to make blunt, witty remarks.

After the Redskins' 73-0 loss to the Chicago Bears in the 1940 championship, a writer asked if the outcome would have been different had an end not dropped an early touchdown pass.

"Yeah," drawled Baugh. "It would have been 73-7."

Baugh was also known for his reclusiveness.

After his NFL career, Baugh retreated to his 7,600-acre West Texas ranch about 95 miles southeast of Lubbock. The Hall of Fame and the Redskins tried to lure him east for ceremonies over the years, but he always turned them down.

But he always enjoyed football season.

"I'll watch it all damn day long," Baugh told The Associated Press in a 2002 interview. "I like the football they play. They got bigger boys, and they've also got these damn speed merchants that we didn't have in those days. I'd love to be quarterback this day and time."

He bought the Double Mountain Ranch, named for two hills that jut out of the flat earth north of his house, in 1941. He and his wife, Edmonia, who died in 1990, raised five children on the arid expanse covered with mesquite trees, prickly pear cactus and about 500 cows.

[Expug]

You are so right! I often think it is me that's off key....but no! The game, the players, the advice by the cornermen, the whole concept that was boxing years ago has been filtered, little by little, out of the most competetive, individualistic struggle for fame and fortune known to man. It's not same, IMO. Maybe it's got to be as old-timer Art Martell used to tell me......"Boxing has to die, to be born again."

hap navarro

Hap
"Boxing has to die,to be born again."
The sport is dying. The heavyweights are breathing their death rattle. The lighter weights are still frisky. But if it dies, will it be reborn? When they're are not enough people around that remember or can recognize what a boxing match is. When there aren't any teachers who can educate a man who wants to fight with gloves on.
Boxing will be something to looked at in film or read in books,if people still want to read. The criticism will be that boxing is a limited way of fighting. Kicking and gauging and tackling the man is what they want to see.

After the WBHOF Banquet some of the BoxRec guys went to repair in the lounge. I'll never forget one moment. There was a small TV at our table. A replay of a Ultimate Fighting match for who was the baddest dude on the planet was on the screen. At the buzzer the two beasts came out.Within 40 seconds one guy telegraphed a right hand and clipped the other. He went down like he was shot. The punch was awkward and slow. After being pounced on ,the "fight"was over.

Next highlight was a shot of Lacey and Taylor. A fight that won't be mentioned in the same breath with Graziano and Zale. Brian was sitting next to me. We saw Taylor counter a Lacey lead with a pretty uppercut. The punch didn't result in an ending,but exemplified the art of scientific punching. Beautifull to watch. That punch by Taylor could hsve also won him the title of Ultimate Fighting Champion that night.

The fan today of combat in the ring is growing in favor of kicking and tackling and gauging. That's not beautifull to watch,nor does it require the effort and sacrafice of fighters and trainers to learn a pretty uppercut counter that made guys like me and Brian that night at the Marriott take notice. I guess you have to have a trained eye to appreciate things like that.

I well remember watching that with you Rog.
There are times when Ultimate fighting is just violence.Period.
I tell people that boxing can be a violent sport no doubt.
However Ultimate fighting is at times plain violence.
The fight you and I were watching, Lesnar-Couture, at the end was just violence.One guy on top of the other pounding on a guy with hammer fists looked like a carpenter banging a nail into a board.

[Expug]

Hey, Brian, I always knew "ex-pug" was "Brian," but I didn't know your last name until now. I pulled up your boxrec bio and it says you are into judo.

Do you know Gary Prindiville? His son's wife and my wife are good friends, and his grandson and my son were best pals in high school - played football together - everything. Gary. Sr. is in his 70s, I guess, and still competes in judo. I think he won a national seniors title a few years ago.

Tom, I havent had the pleasure of meeting Mr Prindiville.
I will ask around and see if anyone in these parts Knows him.
I am planning on competing at Nationals this year and maybe he will be there also.
I will look for him.
Its in San Diego in April.The 17th and 18th I think.
Last time I fought Nationals I fought a guy from Oklahoma with the last name Baker.
I Dont remember his first name.

[bennie]

Nice account of Liston, Rick. I always thought Sonny was misunderstood. To me he was a boy in man's body. He hated the real world, the adult world, and drinking, bullying, fighting, f ucking and gambling were ways of escaping, a big boy 'playing' in the park even after it got dark.

[Expug]

Sonny had that jab.'He could bust a guy up with that thing.
It was like a right hand it was that powerful.
You had to feel a little bad for Sonny when after winning the title, he was looking forward to a welcoming party at the airport and nobody showed up at all.
It also always bugged me that Larry Merchant who was a writer for a Philly paper at the time.
Wrote,"we should throw Liston a parade and use paper from torn up arrest warrants as confetti".
Im not a Merchant fan,He comes off as pompous.

[bennie]

Irish puncher Darren Sutherland makes his much-awaited pro debut tonight in his home city of Dublin as part of a fantastic triple title fight bill.
Sutherland was outscored by British hope and Olympic champion James DeGale in the middleweight semi-finals of the Olympics earlier this year (10-3). He had licked DeGale aplenty in previous meetings between them and may have the more professional style than the Londoner, one of those 'should have been drowned at birth' southpaws, or certainly James was in the Olympic final.
Anyway, Sutherland steals a march on DeGale by going pro before him, with promoter Frank Maloney, a man who knows how to build an Olympic prospect. This is not quite "Be in at The Beginning" and Lennox Lewis, but Sutherland looks ready to roll at 26 and ready to roll in a country that will back him hard.

[Rick Farris]

Sonny had that jab.'He could bust a guy up with that thing.
It was like a right hand it was that powerful.
You had to feel a little bad for Sonny when after winning the title, he was looking forward to a welcoming party at the airport and nobody showed up at all.
It also always bugged me that Larry Merchant who was a writer for a Philly paper at the time.
Wrote,"we should throw Liston a parade and use paper from torn up arrest warrants as confetti".
Im not a Merchant fan,He comes off as pompous.

Brian . . . Liston's jab is something I'll never forget. I liked his style, hands up, shifting side-to-side behind that punishing jab. As for merchant, he should be taken to sea with 90% of today's boxing journalists and forced to walk the plank. I liked that George Foreman put him in his place before leaving his HBO job.

-Rick

[Expug]

I liked Listons style too Rick.
Effective aggression, busy with that telephone pole jab.
He was well schooled.
He was a guy born to kick ass with his physical tools.
Huge reach, strong, fists the size of hams, he was a formidable fighter.
Another guy who would annihalate todays crop.
Merchant annoys the hell out of me.
Im not a Lampley fan either.

[raylawpc]

Sonny had that jab.'He could bust a guy up with that thing.
It was like a right hand it was that powerful.
You had to feel a little bad for Sonny when after winning the title, he was looking forward to a welcoming party at the airport and nobody showed up at all.
It also always bugged me that Larry Merchant who was a writer for a Philly paper at the time.
Wrote,"we should throw Liston a parade and use paper from torn up arrest warrants as confetti".
Im not a Merchant fan,He comes off as pompous.

Its interesting that, while everybody took shots at Sonny, Johnny Coulon - the old bantamweight champion turned world-class trainer out of Chicago said, "I never heard Sonny say anything bad about anyone."

[bennie]

Sonny had that jab.'He could bust a guy up with that thing.
It was like a right hand it was that powerful.
You had to feel a little bad for Sonny when after winning the title, he was looking forward to a welcoming party at the airport and nobody showed up at all.
It also always bugged me that Larry Merchant who was a writer for a Philly paper at the time.
Wrote,"we should throw Liston a parade and use paper from torn up arrest warrants as confetti".
Im not a Merchant fan,He comes off as pompous.

Its interesting that, while everybody took shots at Sonny, Johnny Coulon - the old bantamweight champion turned world-class trainer out of Chicago said, "I never heard Sonny say anything bad about anyone."

Liston had a real shout in the rematch with Ali in Boston, when Ali suffered a hernia. Sonny was looking great in training. The conspiracy theories surrounding the Lewiston affair ignored the simple fact that Liston, now ageing and unable to peak in training as he had for Boston, copped a shot and had a Duran "No Mas" moment on the canvas. He just didn't fancy 15 rounds with a tormentor.

[Expug]

Very interesting Tom.
Sonny , to the media was a "hood".
There is /was probably a whole lot more to Liston then what was portrayed in the media.
Its funny that there are those that want fighters to be perfect citizens but still be terrors in the ring.
Sometimes the disconnect isnt so easy.Im not saying that fighters are bad guys.In fact they the best guys around to talk to and socialize with. They are most often kind and generous in ways other athletes arent.
But most come from hard tough backgrounds and are not to be messed with.Countless have had brushes with the law and streetfights.
After all, who gets involved in fighting for a living?
Country Clubbers? No .
Its fighting, not a fu..in maypole dance.
Sonny was probably no worse then many many other athletes , Not just boxers.
His legacy is hurt by the strange Ali fight endings.

[dagosd2000]

Sammy Baugh dies at 94; pioneering NFL quarterback

Reporting from Lubbock, Texas -- Sammy Baugh, who set numerous passing records with the Washington Redskins in an era when NFL teams were running on almost every down, died Wednesday night at Fisher County Hospital in Rotan, Texas. He was 94.

Baugh had battled Alzheimer's and dementia for several years, said his son, David Baugh. He had been ill recently with kidney problems, low blood pressure and double pneumonia.

"It wasn't the same Sam we all knew," his son said. "He just finally wore out."

After starring at Texas Christian University, "Slingin' Sammy" Baugh played with the Redskins from 1937 to 1952 and led the league in passing six times. Baugh guided the Redskins to five title games and two championships, playing his entire career without a face mask. His No. 33 is the only jersey Washington has retired.

Though he was noted for his passing, Baugh was one of the best all-around players of his day. One season he led the league in passing, defensive interceptions and punting. In one game, he threw four touchdown passes and intercepted four passes. He threw six touchdowns in a game -- twice -- and kicked an 85-yard punt.

"Sammy Baugh embodied all we aspire to at the Washington Redskins," Redskins owner Dan Snyder said. "He was a competitor in everything he did and a winner. He was one of the greatest to ever play the game of football, and one of the greatest the Redskins ever had."

Baugh was the last surviving member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame's inaugural class in 1963.

He was an All-Pro selection nine times during his career and was voted to the NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and to the NFL's 1940s All-Decade Team.

"There's nobody any better than Sam Baugh was in pro football," Don Maynard, a fellow West Texas Hall of Famer who played for Baugh, said in 2002. "When I see somebody picking the greatest player around, to me, if they didn't go both ways (playing offense and defense), they don't really deserve to be nominated. I always ask, 'Well, how'd he do on defense? How was his punting?' "

When Baugh entered the NFL in 1937, the forward pass was so rare that it was unveiled mostly in desperate situations. In his first year, only six passers averaged three completions a game that year. But Baugh passed any time in any situation.

As a rookie, he completed 91 passes in 218 attempts and led the league with 1,127 yards. He led the Redskins to the NFL championship game against the Chicago Bears, throwing three touchdown passes in Washington's 28-21 victory.

Baugh still holds Redskins records for career touchdown passes (187) and completion percentage in a season (70.3%). His 31 interceptions on defense are third on the team's career list. He still owns the league mark for single-season punting average at 51.4 yards per kick.

One of his more memorable performances came against the Chicago Cardinals in November 1947. Playing in old Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C., Baugh passed for 355 yards and six touchdowns. Although the Redskins had a losing season that year, finishing with a 4-8 record, Baugh had career highs in completions (210), pass attempts (354) and touchdown passes (25). He led the league in each of those categories as well as total yards with 2,938.

"He was amazing, just tremendously accurate," Eddie LeBaron, who took over as Washington's quarterback in Baugh's last season, said in 2002. "He could always find a way to throw it off balance. I've seen him throw the ball overarm, sidearm and underarm and complete them."

After leaving the Redskins in 1952, Baugh coached at Hardin-Simmons University, compiling a 23-28 record in four years.

He was the first coach of the American Football League's New York Titans, compiling a 14-14 record in 1960 and 1961. In 1964, he coached the AFL's Houston Oilers to a 4-10 record.

Baugh was born March 17, 1914, on a farm near Temple, Texas.

He was a high school football, baseball and basketball player in Sweetwater, Texas. His legend began to grow during his college days at TCU.

It was there that he picked up the nickname "Slingin' Sammy" -- but it wasn't for his passing. It was for the rockets he fired to first base as a shortstop and third baseman.

"Everybody thought I was a better baseball player growing up," he said in 2002. "I thought I was going to be a big league baseball player."

An All-American football player in 1935 and 1936, he led TCU to a 29-7-3 mark, including Sugar Bowl and Cotton Bowl victories.

He masterfully executed an early ancestor of the West Coast offense at TCU, and he credits Horned Frogs Coach Dutch Meyer with his NFL success.

Baugh was known to make blunt, witty remarks.

After the Redskins' 73-0 loss to the Chicago Bears in the 1940 championship, a writer asked if the outcome would have been different had an end not dropped an early touchdown pass.

"Yeah," drawled Baugh. "It would have been 73-7."

Baugh was also known for his reclusiveness.

After his NFL career, Baugh retreated to his 7,600-acre West Texas ranch about 95 miles southeast of Lubbock. The Hall of Fame and the Redskins tried to lure him east for ceremonies over the years, but he always turned them down.

But he always enjoyed football season.

"I'll watch it all damn day long," Baugh told The Associated Press in a 2002 interview. "I like the football they play. They got bigger boys, and they've also got these damn speed merchants that we didn't have in those days. I'd love to be quarterback this day and time."

He bought the Double Mountain Ranch, named for two hills that jut out of the flat earth north of his house, in 1941. He and his wife, Edmonia, who died in 1990, raised five children on the arid expanse covered with mesquite trees, prickly pear cactus and about 500 cows.

Shows how old I'm getting. I remember watching a Leave It To Beaver not too long ago. Beaver asked his dad who was a better quarterback,Johnny Unitus or Sammy Baogh. Ward just shook his head with a smirk.
"Of course, Sammy Baugh."
Very condencending.

At least Beaver knew who Sammy Baygh was. Today the kids haven't heard of Sammy Baugh or Johnny Unitus. Pretty soon they won't know who Joe Montana was either.

[kikibalt]

Sonny Liston

[kikibalt]

Floyd Patterson & Sonny Liston

[Expug]

Sammy Baugh dies at 94; pioneering NFL quarterback

Reporting from Lubbock, Texas -- Sammy Baugh, who set numerous passing records with the Washington Redskins in an era when NFL teams were running on almost every down, died Wednesday night at Fisher County Hospital in Rotan, Texas. He was 94.

Baugh had battled Alzheimer's and dementia for several years, said his son, David Baugh. He had been ill recently with kidney problems, low blood pressure and double pneumonia.

"It wasn't the same Sam we all knew," his son said. "He just finally wore out."

After starring at Texas Christian University, "Slingin' Sammy" Baugh played with the Redskins from 1937 to 1952 and led the league in passing six times. Baugh guided the Redskins to five title games and two championships, playing his entire career without a face mask. His No. 33 is the only jersey Washington has retired.

Though he was noted for his passing, Baugh was one of the best all-around players of his day. One season he led the league in passing, defensive interceptions and punting. In one game, he threw four touchdown passes and intercepted four passes. He threw six touchdowns in a game -- twice -- and kicked an 85-yard punt.

"Sammy Baugh embodied all we aspire to at the Washington Redskins," Redskins owner Dan Snyder said. "He was a competitor in everything he did and a winner. He was one of the greatest to ever play the game of football, and one of the greatest the Redskins ever had."

Baugh was the last surviving member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame's inaugural class in 1963.

He was an All-Pro selection nine times during his career and was voted to the NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team and to the NFL's 1940s All-Decade Team.

"There's nobody any better than Sam Baugh was in pro football," Don Maynard, a fellow West Texas Hall of Famer who played for Baugh, said in 2002. "When I see somebody picking the greatest player around, to me, if they didn't go both ways (playing offense and defense), they don't really deserve to be nominated. I always ask, 'Well, how'd he do on defense? How was his punting?' "

When Baugh entered the NFL in 1937, the forward pass was so rare that it was unveiled mostly in desperate situations. In his first year, only six passers averaged three completions a game that year. But Baugh passed any time in any situation.

As a rookie, he completed 91 passes in 218 attempts and led the league with 1,127 yards. He led the Redskins to the NFL championship game against the Chicago Bears, throwing three touchdown passes in Washington's 28-21 victory.

Baugh still holds Redskins records for career touchdown passes (187) and completion percentage in a season (70.3%). His 31 interceptions on defense are third on the team's career list. He still owns the league mark for single-season punting average at 51.4 yards per kick.

One of his more memorable performances came against the Chicago Cardinals in November 1947. Playing in old Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C., Baugh passed for 355 yards and six touchdowns. Although the Redskins had a losing season that year, finishing with a 4-8 record, Baugh had career highs in completions (210), pass attempts (354) and touchdown passes (25). He led the league in each of those categories as well as total yards with 2,938.

"He was amazing, just tremendously accurate," Eddie LeBaron, who took over as Washington's quarterback in Baugh's last season, said in 2002. "He could always find a way to throw it off balance. I've seen him throw the ball overarm, sidearm and underarm and complete them."

After leaving the Redskins in 1952, Baugh coached at Hardin-Simmons University, compiling a 23-28 record in four years.

He was the first coach of the American Football League's New York Titans, compiling a 14-14 record in 1960 and 1961. In 1964, he coached the AFL's Houston Oilers to a 4-10 record.

Baugh was born March 17, 1914, on a farm near Temple, Texas.

He was a high school football, baseball and basketball player in Sweetwater, Texas. His legend began to grow during his college days at TCU.

It was there that he picked up the nickname "Slingin' Sammy" -- but it wasn't for his passing. It was for the rockets he fired to first base as a shortstop and third baseman.

"Everybody thought I was a better baseball player growing up," he said in 2002. "I thought I was going to be a big league baseball player."

An All-American football player in 1935 and 1936, he led TCU to a 29-7-3 mark, including Sugar Bowl and Cotton Bowl victories.

He masterfully executed an early ancestor of the West Coast offense at TCU, and he credits Horned Frogs Coach Dutch Meyer with his NFL success.

Baugh was known to make blunt, witty remarks.

After the Redskins' 73-0 loss to the Chicago Bears in the 1940 championship, a writer asked if the outcome would have been different had an end not dropped an early touchdown pass.

"Yeah," drawled Baugh. "It would have been 73-7."

Baugh was also known for his reclusiveness.

After his NFL career, Baugh retreated to his 7,600-acre West Texas ranch about 95 miles southeast of Lubbock. The Hall of Fame and the Redskins tried to lure him east for ceremonies over the years, but he always turned them down.

But he always enjoyed football season.

"I'll watch it all damn day long," Baugh told The Associated Press in a 2002 interview. "I like the football they play. They got bigger boys, and they've also got these damn speed merchants that we didn't have in those days. I'd love to be quarterback this day and time."

He bought the Double Mountain Ranch, named for two hills that jut out of the flat earth north of his house, in 1941. He and his wife, Edmonia, who died in 1990, raised five children on the arid expanse covered with mesquite trees, prickly pear cactus and about 500 cows.

Shows how old I'm getting. I remember watching a Leave It To Beaver not too long ago. Beaver asked his dad who was a better quarterback,Johnny Unitus or Sammy Baogh. Ward just shook his head with a smirk.
"Of course, Sammy Baugh."
Very condencending.

At least Beaver knew who Sammy Baygh was. Today the kids haven't heard of Sammy Baugh or Johnny Unitus. Pretty soon they won't know who Joe Montana was either.

I like what Sammy Baugh said after the Bears beat them 72-0 in a championship game in the thirties.
Evidently early in the game one of his recievers dropped a TD pass.
The reporter asked him "would it have made a difference if so and so caught that pass?"
Baugh said," yeah, it would have been 72-6."
Gotta like the straight shootin Texan.

[kikibalt]

Johnson calling Arreola out

If you ask Kevin “Kingpin” Johnson, he would tell you he’d fight anyone that you put in front of him, and he wouldn’t be lying. Since first turning pro on February 13, 2003, the Star Boxing prospect has been telling anyone who would listen he was destined to become the next great heavyweight champion. Now 21 wins later against 0 defeats, Johnson is willing to put everything on the line, including a very good friendship, by challenging fellow American heavyweight hopeful Chris “Nightmare” Arreola (26-0 with 23 KOs). Arreola last fought on November 29th on HBO against Travis Walker (28-2-1, 22KO) stopping Walker in the third round.

Johnson’s promoter, Star Boxing CEO Joe DeGuardia said, “We think that Kevin is the best heavyweight in the world. On the other hand, Chris thinks he is the best and has his people telling him the same thing. Depending on who you talk to in the industry, one person will say Kevin is the best, another will say Chris is. So let’s decide who actually is the best and have these two great heavyweight prospects fight each other, plain and simple,” said “It would be a great fight for the fans, a great fight for the heavyweight division and a great fight for the U.S. The winner clearly cements themselves as THE best American heavyweight… and THE rightful challenger to the heavyweight champions out there.”

[raylawpc]

Very interesting Tom.
Sonny , to the media was a "hood".
There is /was probably a whole lot more to Liston then what was portrayed in the media.
Its funny that there are those that want fighters to be perfect citizens but still be terrors in the ring.
Sometimes the disconnect isnt so easy.Im not saying that fighters are bad guys.In fact they the best guys around to talk to and socialize with. They are most often kind and generous in ways other athletes arent.
But most come from hard tough backgrounds and are not to be messed with.Countless have had brushes with the law and streetfights.
After all, who gets involved in fighting for a living?
Country Clubbers? No .
Its fighting, not a fu..in maypole dance.
Sonny was probably no worse then many many other athletes , Not just boxers.
His legacy is hurt by the strange Ali fight endings.

Before and while he was champ, Sonny had two strikes against him:

1. As my Mom used to say, “You’re judged by the company you keep” – and Sonny hung around with gangsters and criminals.
2. The media found him aloof and uncommunicative. I always suspected that, truth be told, Sonny was inordinately shy and, give his illiteracy, lacked confidence in his communications skills. (Wasn't it George Foreman who said that Sonny would open up to his friends, and was actually an interesting person with whom to pal around?)

The strange losses to Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali were strike three against him.