Boxing Monthly DLH article.

[Poncey]

GBP have wasted the talents of Juarez and Bautista by matching them too hard too fast.

I'm waiting for them to screw up McEwan as well.

Try telling Vernon Forrest you achieve nothing by fighting Mayorga.

[Glyn Leach]

yes, because he was already 'Oscar De La Hoya', multi weight champion, proven entity, when he fought Mayorga - and you cannot equate Vernon Forrest with Oscar De La Hoya, a whole different level of expectations and aspirations, surely that's obvious

[stujones]

Sometimes it doesn't have to be the best fighter since Ali who becomes a star... you telling me in the last 6 years there's been NO-ONE that couldn't have found a foothold in sports fans imagination if only GB would have invested even half the money, time and effort they put into re-cycling Mosley, Hopkins etc??????

Margarito has become a star in the last few years under Arum, for one.

And Mayorga????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! He was exposed in 2004 by Tito, who hasn't fought in YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, being the WBC champion is funny - must be crap!

And I asked you to name one.

Margarito was a champion long before GBP started and he wasn't a star before his upset win over Cotto.

[banjo]

The reason why boxing is the way it is at the moment is because younger, hungrier fighters are not getting their chances and we are being fed the same old recycled garbage because these days people only seem interested in big name, big money fights no matter how washed up the fighters in question are.

The days where we see a young, hungry for glory fighter who happens to be relatively unknown outside his own country(like Lloyd Honeyghan for example) travel over to the superstar and rip the title away from him are long gone. Mainly because those fights don't make any money, these days younger fighters just pick up the vacant alphabet belts which have been dropped by the big names who have no interest in fighting them and then get derided as no-marks etc. by supposed "experts" and the same experts are the ones who are going to be whinging when all the superstars have retired and nobody is there to take the place.

Yes, but name me a fighter - Berto - well he is a champion.... Khan? Seriously want to see Khan vs Marquez now? Prescott maybe, but what has he done signing for a relatively un heard of promoter.

Look what happend to the two next big things - Taylor and Pavlik - Taylor championship reign turned into a damp squid, and Pavlik just got outclassed in a fight that was supposed to be the crowning of the new star.

Do you really want to see the Escobedo vs Pacquiao?

Did anyone want to see Curry v Honeyghan or Liston v Ali(or Clay as he was then)?

From what I've read(obviously wasn't here for Liston v Ali and too young for Curry v Lloyd) those fights were regarded as jokes and look what happened one becomes a 2-time welterweight champion and the other a 3-time heavyweight champion who also happens to be regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest boxer in history.

People are terrified of taking risks nowadays, what happened to the "fvck it I'll give my best, if it ain't good enough it ain't good enough" attitude?

[stujones]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what happens with Ortiz, Jacobs etc who both looked pretty usefull on the undercard of DLH vs Pacquaio, and Abner Mares. 140 is going to be busy in 2009 it would seem with Hatton, Pacquiao and Mayweather - but like to see Ortiz moved into position in 2009.

You can add Escabedo to the list of a fighter who, didn't make the grade, it would seem.

As proven by Joe Calzaghe and Antonio Margarito - building a star takes time. It will still be interesting to see if Froch can sell out the O2 and not just Nottingham.

Putting them on high profile undercards is the way to do it.... Pavlik vs Taylor got demanded by the fans based on Pavlik performance on the Taylor vs Spinks undercard. It will build them to be the big fish in the big pond, not the just the big fish in the little pond as I worry Froch will end up being, just as Clinton Woods was before.

[Glyn Leach]

Right, thanks for the company chaps, gotta go home now to see the GBP promotion from Dublin - apparently Richard Shafter farted over Ireland in a plane once so they are claiming co-promotional rights to all shows dating back to Blue Lewis. See ya tomorrow.

[stujones]

Did anyone want to see Curry v Honeyghan or Liston v Ali(or Clay as he was then)?

From what I've read(obviously wasn't here for Liston v Ali and too young for Curry v Lloyd) those fights were regarded as jokes and look what happened one becomes a 2-time welterweight champion and the other a 3-time heavyweight champion who also happens to be regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest boxer in history.

People are terrified of taking risks nowadays, what happened to the "fvck it I'll give my best, if it ain't good enough it ain't good enough" attitude?

Times have changed from those days though - would an undefeated Olympic Champion who smashed beat up the likes of Cooper (long time British champion) and Archie Moore be considered a joke to fight Klitchsko?

Would a 27-0 (load of KO's) Undefeated EBU champion be considered a "joke" to fight someone like Tszyu or Margarito.

If we had people like that now they would be stars... and would be pushed into a world title shot. Honeyghun's resume pre Curry was everybit as good as Hatton's pre Tszyu - was he considered a "joke" defence - no, mainly cause times have changed and there isn't much there more worthy.

The fact is many people, myself included I will admit, were saying its time to let Khan off the leash and fight for the title. Mainly cause there doesn't seem to be the strength in depth as it was in 80's and before that. Tyrrel Biggs wasn't considered a joke defence for Tyson, despite being far less experienced or impressive as Clay pre Liston... why cause there was no one there, in the 60's there was plenty there, as with the 1980's Welters.

But the fact is, Khan looked like one of the biggest "shoe ins" *for a world championship out of all the young fighters, which shows the talent that is around in the under 25.... as highlighted with the Lacy vs JC and Pavlik vs Hopkins fights.

Yes, there is also a lack of "fornicate it I'll give it my best shop", but when fighters like Khan and Hatton (pre Tszyu) can command the purses fighting bums, why risk it. Hatton was rumoured to be on £250K per WBU defence, 4 defences and he was a millionaire - rediclous, and to Hatton's credit he proved to be a proper fighting man... as DLH has done in the past, but gets called a chicken.

* Edit: Words of Larry Merchant.

[Graham Houston]

Stu

First, I don't write the headlines or the photo captions. They are done at the production end in London.

The article was written literally on deadline due to a tight Christmas printing schedule. Normally, writing for a magazine, one has time for a "considered" piece. This was a first-impressions report. Since I wrote the article, a lot of things have come to light re. Oscar's preparation. It could well be that De La Hoya was weight-drained and he may have left his fight in the gym. I alluded to this in the Frontline Diary sidebar (the airport chat with Angelo Dundee).

Maybe Glyn will allow me to do a follow-up in the next issue, perhaps a column, looking at De La Hoya's career as a whole.

De La Hoya met a peak Felix Trinidad, true. He also fought a rival champ at the peak of his ability in Rafael Ruelas. And Oscar did face a lot of champions. However, In many fights he went into the bouts with an inbuilt advantage (or what he thought was one), and I don't think this is seriously in dispute. I actually haven't seen the new issue yet, but I would guess that the headline referred to De La Hoya going into the Pacquiao fight with what he thought was an inbuilt advantage, only for it to backfire on him.

The fight, principally De La Hoya's performance (or lack of one), has stirred up a lot of debate and I was interested in your perspective on the matter. I know that Glyn welcomes the views of readers, as do I.

[MightyWarrior]

However, In many fights he went into the bouts with an inbuilt advantage (or what he thought was one), and I don't think this is seriously in dispute.

So true, it's always been so obvious, but you don't often see it mentioned in the press - Oscar always gave himself the advantage, apart from Trinidad and Hop - and he lost both of those with little glory.
But you'll get the Oscar fans who'll argue until they're blue in the face otherwise.

By the way, I used to live in Mexico, and though Oscar tries for a Mexican warrior image every now and then, the vast majority of Mexicans are barely aware of him, they just see him as another American.

[stujones]

Graham, respect for your reply and I do think your writing is spot on normally. My main criticism with the piece was primarily to do with this "Oscar didn't even go down fighting" bit. I think he did all that he could, it wasn't alot - for whatever reason but I think the fact he lost a round 10-8 on all three cards without going down shows some heart.. that was my main bone of contention.

I agree with what you say regarding his career in this post, it just wasn't highlighted alot in the article - just the negatives. Yes, he lost more of the big ones - nearly all of them close - but I think the fact he took on the likes of Trinidad, Quartey, Whittikar, Vargas, Hopkins - shows that he was a fighter at heart not a phoney - and I think a combination of the captions (well mainly the captions) and the piece didn't potray that.

I'm not saying that people here are wrong in saying that the right man won for the good of the game in this "dream match" - but I think Oscar has been so good for the sport and I think the negatives of his recent career (which seems to have been highlighted more since he purchased ring magazine) have taken a priority with the tremendous positives he brought.

[Datsue]

Stu, is there any length you would not go to in order to defend De La Hoya?

ANYWAY...

Would a 27-0 (load of KO's) Undefeated EBU champion be considered a "joke" to fight someone like Tszyu or Margarito.

If we had people like that now they would be stars... and would be pushed into a world title shot. Honeyghun's resume pre Curry was everybit as good as Hatton's pre Tszyu - was he considered a "joke" defence - no, mainly cause times have changed and there isn't much there more worthy.

Honeyghan wasn't fighting fecking Margs or Tszyu though. I think you'll find the Honeyghan lack of respect was because the game was massively Amerocentric (do I mean that? I mean only American fighters were considered germane for serious title shots) at the time: how many non-US champs were there? Sod all. That's why Lloyd wasn't given a chance, plus he was fighting the boy who the Septics regarded as pound-for-pound number one, so the comparison doesn't make any sense. If Hatton (pre-Tszyu) was being matched with Mayweather (post-DLH) then your comparison would be valid.

& only Amir & four of his mates thought he was world title worthy. Load of pants to say he was "in the running for a title shot". With about fifteen fights' seasoning, yeah, but I'm sure you saw the Michael Gomez fight & thought "Feck me, if he's going to war with a trillion year old superfeatherweight I'm sure he'd walk through Juan Diaz!" NOT.


Only armchair pundits & those in need of urgent medical help were thinking along those lines & you know it.

Times have changed from those days though - would an undefeated Olympic Champion who smashed beat up the likes of Cooper (long time British champion) and Archie Moore be considered a joke to fight Klitchsko?

No, he wouldn't. If Odlanier Solis wasn't so fat & amassed a long unbeaten run including a KO of Juan Carlos Gomez & Vlad Virchis (just for comparisons' sake) the only people who'd be bemoaning his chances would the know-it-alls on here who seem to think that they are the utter fount of all boxing knowledge. Again, what you say is pants. No-one gives the former undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world a snowball's chance in Hell of flattening the elder Klit.

So times haven't changed that much, it's just nonsense & bar-room talk is now instantneously broadcast to all areas of the globe as if we were paid for (pretending) to know what we talk about.

[Datsue]

Oh, for what it's worth I really enjoyed December's Boxing Monthly.

Ta lads.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Stu, is there any length you would not go to in order to defend De La Hoya?

ANYWAY...

Would a 27-0 (load of KO's) Undefeated EBU champion be considered a "joke" to fight someone like Tszyu or Margarito.

If we had people like that now they would be stars... and would be pushed into a world title shot. Honeyghun's resume pre Curry was everybit as good as Hatton's pre Tszyu - was he considered a "joke" defence - no, mainly cause times have changed and there isn't much there more worthy.

Honeyghan wasn't fighting fecking Margs or Tszyu though. I think you'll find the Honeyghan lack of respect was because the game was massively Amerocentric (do I mean that? I mean only American fighters were considered germane for serious title shots) at the time: how many non-US champs were there? Sod all. That's why Lloyd wasn't given a chance, plus he was fighting the boy who the Septics regarded as pound-for-pound number one, so the comparison doesn't make any sense. If Hatton (pre-Tszyu) was being matched with Mayweather (post-DLH) then your comparison would be valid.

& only Amir & four of his mates thought he was world title worthy. Load of pants to say he was "in the running for a title shot". With about fifteen fights' seasoning, yeah, but I'm sure you saw the Michael Gomez fight & thought "Feck me, if he's going to war with a trillion year old superfeatherweight I'm sure he'd walk through Juan Diaz!" NOT.


Only armchair pundits & those in need of urgent medical help were thinking along those lines & you know it.

Times have changed from those days though - would an undefeated Olympic Champion who smashed beat up the likes of Cooper (long time British champion) and Archie Moore be considered a joke to fight Klitchsko?

No, he wouldn't. If Odlanier Solis wasn't so fat & amassed a long unbeaten run including a KO of Juan Carlos Gomez & Vlad Virchis (just for comparisons' sake) the only people who'd be bemoaning his chances would the know-it-alls on here who seem to think that they are the utter fount of all boxing knowledge. Again, what you say is pants. No-one gives the former undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world a snowball's chance in Hell of flattening the elder Klit.

So times haven't changed that much, it's just nonsense & bar-room talk is now instantneously broadcast to all areas of the globe as if we were paid for (pretending) to know what we talk about.

Got to agree on one point - even Stevie Wonder wouldn't have thought Amir Khan was a shoe in for a world title.

[Datsue]

Yeah sorry for going off on one, coffee had just kicked in...

Peace out everyone.

[Glyn Leach]

Stu

First, I don't write the headlines or the photo captions. They are done at the production end in London.

The article was written literally on deadline due to a tight Christmas printing schedule. Normally, writing for a magazine, one has time for a "considered" piece. This was a first-impressions report. Since I wrote the article, a lot of things have come to light re. Oscar's preparation. It could well be that De La Hoya was weight-drained and he may have left his fight in the gym. I alluded to this in the Frontline Diary sidebar (the airport chat with Angelo Dundee).

Maybe Glyn will allow me to do a follow-up in the next issue, perhaps a column, looking at De La Hoya's career as a whole.

See the issue first mate, the headline isn't even mentioned in any of the threads here. And your piece was as well written and thoughtful as ever, there's no need for a follow-up in any explanatory sense. But if you want to write a column about Oscar's career, feel free - though I would put money on it not being over yet! In fact, while everybody talks about Hatton vs Pacman or PBF at Wembley next year, guess who I'm starting to think will be the opponent at Wembley?!

I obviously have a major problem with all things GBP (and monopolistic megalomania in general) but I try to be fair to GBP on a professional level, I let Ron Borges's very uncritical Oscar piece appear a couple of issues ago, for instance. That's just responsible journalism on my part, providing a counterbalance to my own "shoot the bastards" stance. If I didn't do that, hell, it'd be Stalinesque, like a promoter buying a magazine as a mouthpiece or Richard Shafter threatening to remove media credentials from potentially critical press!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Stu

First, I don't write the headlines or the photo captions. They are done at the production end in London.

The article was written literally on deadline due to a tight Christmas printing schedule. Normally, writing for a magazine, one has time for a "considered" piece. This was a first-impressions report. Since I wrote the article, a lot of things have come to light re. Oscar's preparation. It could well be that De La Hoya was weight-drained and he may have left his fight in the gym. I alluded to this in the Frontline Diary sidebar (the airport chat with Angelo Dundee).

Maybe Glyn will allow me to do a follow-up in the next issue, perhaps a column, looking at De La Hoya's career as a whole.

See the issue first mate, the headline isn't even mentioned in any of the threads here. And your piece was as well written and thoughtful as ever, there's no need for a follow-up in any explanatory sense. But if you want to write a column about Oscar's career, feel free - though I would put money on it not being over yet! In fact, while everybody talks about Hatton vs Pacman or PBF at Wembley next year, guess who I'm starting to think will be the opponent at Wembley?!

I obviously have a major problem with all things GBP (and monopolistic megalomania in general) but I try to be fair to GBP on a professional level, I let Ron Borges's very uncritical Oscar piece appear a couple of issues ago, for instance. That's just responsible journalism on my part, providing a counterbalance to my own "shoot the bastards" stance. If I didn't do that, hell, it'd be Stalinesque, like a promoter buying a magazine as a mouthpiece or Richard Shafter threatening to remove media credentials from potentially critical press!

Surely not Glyn, I cannot see people buying into Hatton v DLH right now, after a crushing defeat.

I agree that it probably isn't over - Oscar is an egomaniac, he will want to go out with a win - he'll probably have some sort of farewell fight - though considering he looked poor against Forbes and terrible against Pacman, hard to see who they could wheel out - Trinidad? Vargas, both are old and shot - and both need a payday no doubt.

Taking away media credentials - would never happen here of course - oh, wait a minute.......

[stujones]

Datsue,

I am not sure what you mean regarding the Heavyweight arguement. If Solis wasn't fat and beaten two solid opperators then off course people would say he was ready - the reason why Clay was considered to have no chance (a joke is maybe taking it a bit far) was cause Liston was an animal and there was alot of fighters who were considered sort of between the Cooper level and the Liston level that he could have faced - fighters possibly more worthy of a shot.

Tyrrel Biggs against Mike Tyson has very similar comparisons with Clay vs Liston, now that fight wasn't considered a joke... and Biggs wasn't as accomplished a pro as Clay was pre Liston. The reason is cause there wasn't the depth there. There wasn't more seasoned pro's who anyone gave a chance against Tyson... part of the reason why Biggs was rushed and the fight was considered a serious test for Tyson.

Tszyu might not have been P4P number #1, but was in the top #4 and again there were supposedly bigger and better fights for Curry - Hearns was touted for example. Hatton was known on US TV, and was filling arenas and commanding £250K purses before the being properly tested - the reason why Hatton was respected stateside (even if an underdog) was cause there was a lack of talent stateside. There wasn't in the 1980's.

I don't think anyone thinks Haye has a snowballs chance, to the degree Honeryghun/Clay had and while Khan would have been a massive underdog - it again wouldn't have been considered as bad as Honeyghun was vs Curry, and it is was Honeyghun in 1986 fighting the champion - then he would have been respected. Mainly because there is not much stateside talent, hence the search has gone more global - Hatton, Kessler, Abraham etc.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Datsue,

I am not sure what you mean regarding the Heavyweight arguement. If Solis wasn't fat and beaten two solid opperators then off course people would say he was ready - the reason why Clay was considered to have no chance (a joke is maybe taking it a bit far) was cause Liston was an animal and there was alot of fighters who were considered sort of between the Cooper level and the Liston level that he could have faced - fighters possibly more worthy of a shot.

Tyrrel Biggs against Mike Tyson has very similar comparisons with Clay vs Liston, now that fight wasn't considered a joke... and Biggs wasn't as accomplished a pro as Clay was pre Liston. The reason is cause there wasn't the depth there. There wasn't more seasoned pro's who anyone gave a chance against Tyson... part of the reason why Biggs was rushed and the fight was considered a serious test for Tyson.

Tszyu might not have been P4P number #1, but was in the top #4 and again there were supposedly bigger and better fights for Curry - Hearns was touted for example. Hatton was known on US TV, and was filling arenas and commanding £250K purses before the being properly tested - the reason why Hatton was respected stateside (even if an underdog) was cause there was a lack of talent stateside. There wasn't in the 1980's.

I don't think anyone thinks Haye has a snowballs chance, to the degree Honeryghun/Clay had and while Khan would have been a massive underdog - it again wouldn't have been considered as bad as Honeyghun was vs Curry, and it is was Honeyghun in 1986 fighting the champion - then he would have been respected. Mainly because there is not much stateside talent, hence the search has gone more global - Hatton, Kessler, Abraham etc.

Haye is considered a much liver 'dog than Honeyghan, who was a massive outsider to win. That was one of the biggest upsets in British boxing history - the biggest I can think of after Turpin v Robinson.

[stujones]

Yes he is and the reason is being is because Haye is proven at world class, albeit at a lower weight and the Vitali isn't in many P4P's top 10, let alone number #1. The only fighters thought to challenge Curry were Hearns, Leonard etc.

If Honeyghun was around now, with his record pre Curry - he'd be thought to be a major test for the champs of today. Honeyghun was alot more seasoned than Michael Jennings.

[Glyn Leach]

Surely not Glyn, I cannot see people buying into Hatton v DLH right now, after a crushing defeat.

I agree that it probably isn't over - Oscar is an egomaniac, he will want to go out with a win - he'll probably have some sort of farewell fight - though considering he looked poor against Forbes and terrible against Pacman, hard to see who they could wheel out - Trinidad? Vargas, both are old and shot - and both need a payday no doubt.

Taking away media credentials - would never happen here of course - oh, wait a minute.......

Doesn't matter where taking away media credentials happens, it's wrong - but more so when some cheesy grinned fake nice guy does it. At least a real promoter will c*** you off to your face and you can have a row with them.

Re Oscar-Hatton, it's not about people James, it's about HBO and an event. Oscar's apologists are out in force already - 'he was drained, he made the weight wrong'. And maybe that's the truth! And let's face it, if people paid in their droves to watch Manfredo and Lazcano, even the ghost of De La Hoya could be considered marketable. Bit of spin, nice 24/7, yeah, that could work.

Fact is even before the fight Oscar was talking about Hatton at Wembley, win or lose. My take on PBF announcing his comeback on the very same day Arum was hinting at Hatton-Pac is that Floyd wants Pacman (and the P4P title again). Neither is hooked up to Golden Boy, it is a mega, mega fight from which they would take all the money, no grafter for Shafter and the boys.

Ricky, meanwhile, is already in bed with Golden Boy, under contract, making Hatton vs the 'rejuvenated' Oscar a natural. Oscar wants to fight in a big outdoor event and there isn't one on offer in the US. Same can be said for his buddy Hopkins, that's why Calzaghe will fight him in Cardiff, despite the first fight being as boring as hell.

It's not about people, it's all about GBP and HBO - what they want goes. They have already proved they believe bums on seats to be old school. If GBP can get the backing of HBO for a fight, it's a done deal.

And don't forget the way the ignorant national press in this country talked up Calzaghe's win over Shaun of the Dead Jones! Name recognition is worth far more than talent in this climate, sadly, and that is what GBP trades upon with it's roster of veterans.

[stujones]

Stu, is there any length you would not go to in order to defend De La Hoya?

ANYWAY....

No, the match up its self was indefensable - I agreed with all the pre fight stuff mentioned by those who are not DLH fans. I did think that maybe the health issues of DLH moving down could have been covered more. Especially as Margret Goodman had written articles that she was more concerned with Oscar than Manny. However, yes - it was a cheap way for DLH to proclaim himself P4P number #1 - had he bashed Pacquiao, I don't think many would have called him that and to be honest, I think the rankings of BM having him at #1 at Light Middleweight for the most part of 2008 was wrong.

I think the stuff mentioned here about "had DLH bashed Pacquiao he would have preclaimed himself the saviour of mexican boxing" is all hearsay and obviously we will never know - yes, he has a big ego - but when has he ever called himself THE BEST, when has he ever disrepected an opponent - fighters have got under his skin and he ups his game for them (Chavez, Mayorga, Vargas etc) - but when has he ever not shown them respect post the fight. He could have made alot more of the Chavez win than he did.

As I said, the main thing I had against the article was the seeming point of view that DLH didn't really try - now addressed by the author in this thread. As comparisons were made with how other greats ended their championship careers (Ali, Leonard etc) - why was it only DLH who was mentioned as "he didn't go down fighting" - the ending was remarkably similar to Ali vs Holmes.

Who knows really how the training camp went, this is part of the problem with huge PPV's - they have to get signed so far in advance, that sometimes they are signed before you go into camp - before you know if you have got it. Maybe he knew in camp it wasn't there, but couldn't pull out, maybe it was the weight, maybe he left it in the gym - maybe, maybe, maybe. But what I think was that for whatever reason - it wasn't there but he did give it his all trying and he was physically spent. That was really my only problem with the article - especially as it gives the bashers the chance to say "well that is twice he quit now" - not only bashes DLH, but discredits that punch Hopkins landed, and the efforts of Pacquaio.

[Glyn Leach]

Stu, is there any length you would not go to in order to defend De La Hoya?

ANYWAY....

No, the match up its self was indefensable - I agreed with all the pre fight stuff mentioned by those who are not DLH fans. I did think that maybe the health issues of DLH moving down could have been covered more. Especially as Margret Goodman had written articles that she was more concerned with Oscar than Manny. However, yes - it was a cheap way for DLH to proclaim himself P4P number #1 - had he bashed Pacquiao, I don't think many would have called him that and to be honest, I think the rankings of BM having him at #1 at Light Middleweight for the most part of 2008 was wrong.

I think the stuff mentioned here about "had DLH bashed Pacquiao he would have preclaimed himself the saviour of mexican boxing" is all hearsay and obviously we will never know - yes, he has a big ego - but when has he ever called himself THE BEST, when has he ever disrepected an opponent - fighters have got under his skin and he ups his game for them (Chavez, Mayorga, Vargas etc) - but when has he ever not shown them respect post the fight. He could have made alot more of the Chavez win than he did.

As I said, the main thing I had against the article was the seeming point of view that DLH didn't really try - now addressed by the author in this thread. As comparisons were made with how other greats ended their championship careers (Ali, Leonard etc) - why was it only DLH who was mentioned as "he didn't go down fighting" - the ending was remarkably similar to Ali vs Holmes.

Who knows really how the training camp went, this is part of the problem with huge PPV's - they have to get signed so far in advance, that sometimes they are signed before you go into camp - before you know if you have got it. Maybe he knew in camp it wasn't there, but couldn't pull out, maybe it was the weight, maybe he left it in the gym - maybe, maybe, maybe. But what I think was that for whatever reason - it wasn't there but he did give it his all trying and he was physically spent. That was really my only problem with the article - especially as it gives the bashers the chance to say "well that is twice he quit now" - not only bashes DLH, but discredits that punch Hopkins landed, and the efforts of Pacquaio.

I agree, Hopkins's punch landed straight on Oscar's 'fighter's heart', medical evidence supports this. And opinion is not hearsay.

[stujones]

Doesn't matter where taking away media credentials happens, it's wrong - but more so when some cheesy grinned fake nice guy does it. At least a real promoter will c*** you off to your face and you can have a row with them.

Re Oscar-Hatton, it's not about people James, it's about HBO and an event. Oscar's apologists are out in force already - 'he was drained, he made the weight wrong'. And maybe that's the truth! And let's face it, if people paid in their droves to watch Manfredo and Lazcano, even the ghost of De La Hoya could be considered marketable. Bit of spin, nice 24/7, yeah, that could work.

Fact is even before the fight Oscar was talking about Hatton at Wembley, win or lose. My take on PBF announcing his comeback on the very same day Arum was hinting at Hatton-Pac is that Floyd wants Pacman (and the P4P title again). Neither is hooked up to Golden Boy, it is a mega, mega fight from which they would take all the money, no grafter for Shafter and the boys.

Ricky, meanwhile, is already in bed with Golden Boy, under contract, making Hatton vs the 'rejuvenated' Oscar a natural. Oscar wants to fight in a big outdoor event and there isn't one on offer in the US. Same can be said for his buddy Hopkins, that's why Calzaghe will fight him in Cardiff, despite the first fight being as boring as hell.

It's not about people, it's all about GBP and HBO - what they want goes. They have already proved they believe bums on seats to be old school. If GBP can get the backing of HBO for a fight, it's a done deal.

And don't forget the way the ignorant national press in this country talked up Calzaghe's win over Shaun of the Dead Jones! Name recognition is worth far more than talent in this climate, sadly, and that is what GBP trades upon with it's roster of veterans.

I agree with that, and it could happen, but I think Oscar would have to fight at 154 and a fight even against the shell of DLH at 154 is bad for Ricky. You mentioned Manfredo and Lazcano, as big sell outs - yes, which makes me think even more it doesn't have to be Ricky. Oscar, already had his "homecoming" against Steve Forbes and that sold out quickly. Oscar could have the 154 equivalent - or a Tito etc - sell out in minutes in a big baseball stadium or something - win the fight with easy and then say "told you it was the weight - I'm back". I aint sure that DLH can convince even the most lay fan that he can be effective at 147 and Hatton doesn't NEED to move up to 154 for anyone.

DLH doesn't need Ricky to sell as stadium, and Ricky doesn't need to fight at 154 for anyone. They are the two biggest stars in world boxing, they can make a fortune fighting the right fights and as DLH has shown he cannot fight at 147, and Ricky cannot fight above 147 - then I cannot see it happening yet, unless of course if Pacquiao fight Floyd and Ricky tests the waters at 147 (again) and looks good.

[Glyn Leach]

DLH doesn't need Ricky to sell as stadium, and Ricky doesn't need to fight at 154 for anyone. They are the two biggest stars in world boxing, they can make a fortune fighting the right fights and as DLH has shown he cannot fight at 147, and Ricky cannot fight above 147 - then I cannot see it happening yet, unless of course if Pacquiao fight Floyd and Ricky tests the waters at 147 (again) and looks good.

Tell me who, where in the world, Oscar can sell out a 70,000 seat stadium against anyone
- except Ricky Hatton in Britain.

And Hatton will do anything for a few quid, that much is obvious.

[DavidPayne]

Glyn.

Did you really sign up to this pantomime on Christmas day last year?

Crickey.

Hatton will do owt for a fiver.

DLH couldn't sell 70,000 tickets anywhere unless he fought Hatton or Pacman, and if it was Pacman it would need to be in Philipines and a dollar ticket.

Hatton has mobilised football supporters on a scale unprecedented. I've always wondered why boxers in the US dont assimilate themselves with US football teams more or those teams too transiant, i.e. LA Rams now playing from Bognor Regis or whatever?