The Most Incompetent Piece Of Matchmaking Ever?

[Herol]

There is different levels though Herol - who knew about Prescott's opponent - he might have been facing the lightweight Herbie Hides, and Khan is a pretty accomplished boxer - he did go in as an over whelming favourite and indeed, Glenn McCory thinks Khan can beat Prescott in his next fight.

I'm sure the fact that alot of US pundits were cursing when DLH was scheduled to fight, then Sports Network promoted Karmarzin, calling it a mismatch was part of the reason why Hennessey was so keen to get that fight on. But it was a terrible mismatch

McCrory saying that is ridiculous. He has nothing to base that prediction on. All we know is that If Khan makes it past the early rounds then he'll have at least achieved something.

The favouritism was based mainly upon Khan being well known and fighting at home. Nobody had legitimately identified any weaknesses in Prescott then, and Khan's suspect chine and defense had been highlighted by Willie 'couldn't crush a grape' Limond & Gomez.

[Herol]

Incompetent piece of matchmaking?

I'd say it's a risk that had to be taken, same with Haye v Thompson you don't learn anything from beating on bums.

If you're talking about Khan then I'm really surprised.

Surely he could have stepped up above Gomez but still fought somebody with more known limitations? Just generally well known. What if Prescott turns out to be an all time great, would it no have meant that Khan was put in with him too early.

They all acknowledged afterwards that it was a mistake, but then I guess they had to for damage limitation.

Well that depends really, the way I look at it his record looked worse than Khans but then again these south americans are usually tough little buggers. But at the end of the day if you want to be a great boxer like Khan has been telling us he wants to be then you have to take risks, Prescott had a fearsome looking record but no one knew much about him which is where the risk lay, the question everyone was asking before the bout was "is Prescott just another knock over with an padded unbeaten record or somebody who is genuinely a threat?" and it turned out to be the latter.

Whether Prescott goes on to achieve anything remains to be seen but at the moment he's just another prospect, I might sound old fashioned here but I like to see prospects take risks because I think losing the way Khan did will really test his character ie. "make him or break him" Haye took on a two former belt holders in his 10th and 11th bouts one of which he lost, now following that defeat he was either going to come back stronger having learnt from a hardened veteran or he was going to end up on the scrap heap like many other prospects do, fortunately he has come back stronger.

Haye knew what he was dealing with against all of his foes. He lost due to exhaustion and bad tactics versus Thompson and came back but Khan was obliterated and it will be much tougher. I'm not saying he should be too protected, but its the devastating level of that loss, which probably only occurred because he was against an unknown. If they'd got someone know then it would probably have been more competitve, even if he'd lost.

I know Khan can't put muscles on his chin but he could have put more work into his defence before going in against someone who looked like a murderous and awkward puncher.

[whicker]

I know it happened a while ago, but I just can't believe that Fwank put Amir Khan in with an unbeaten knockout artist in a fight that wasn't even an eliminator. Surely there cannot be a worse piece of matchmaking ever?

It made no sense at all. In terms of the talent and marketability of Khan.

Surely it must have been the most costly bit of incompetence ever? Any others?

Hindsight is the most cruel judge. Don't forget at the time there was genuine talk of Khan going for the "world" title. Ok, Precott had a punch, but check out the quailty of guys he was knocking out- bottom of the barrel level- his record, shall we say, was against VERY limited opposition. Both the tags "unbeaten" and "knockout artist" must be taken in this context.

On paper it looked as if Khan would outclass him- Khan would be too quick for him, and score a convincing win- over a "knockout specialist."

For the record, I'll say that Khan would easily outclass Precott if they did meet again.

[Herol]

I know it happened a while ago, but I just can't believe that Fwank put Amir Khan in with an unbeaten knockout artist in a fight that wasn't even an eliminator. Surely there cannot be a worse piece of matchmaking ever?

It made no sense at all. In terms of the talent and marketability of Khan.

Surely it must have been the most costly bit of incompetence ever? Any others?

Hindsight is the most cruel judge. Don't forget at the time there was genuine talk of Khan going for the "world" title. Ok, Precott had a punch, but check out the quailty of guys he was knocking out- bottom of the barrel level- his record, shall we say, was against VERY limited opposition. Both the tags "unbeaten" and "knockout artist" must be taken in this context.

On paper it looked as if Khan would outclass him- Khan would be too quick for him, and score a convincing win- over a "knockout specialist."

For the record, I'll say that Khan would easily outclass Precott if they did meet again.

On what basis do you say that?

Have you ever seen Prescott box? If you have then you have seen him KO whoever he was against. Yet you say its going to be 'easy' for the guy whom he ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED in less than a minute to beat him. That is cloud cuckoo land as far as I'm concerned.

I don't believe the problem is hindsight. With your main draw, and one of the biggest names in the country, if you want to step him up, then you must do so against a known opponent. Someone who has been tested and whose strengths and weaknesses can be prepared for. Not some bloke who's knocked out every opponent but not yet stepped up and could be a world beater or not the good depending upon how lucky you are, and who you've had recommended to you by your newly acquired and to some extent unproven (in the context of Khan at least) trainer.

[Asterix]

Look at Prescott here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0hxjhQwt1-A

For what it's worth, I think Khan vs Prescott II is a very intriguing bout and I'd be hard pressed to call the winner.

[whicker]

Khan got caught from a left jab, which wobbled his legs a bit, then Precott connected cleanly to Khan's chin with a great left, dropping him. As Khan hit the deck, Prescott whacked him with a big right.

We all know Khan is liable to go down from punches- and in the past we have seen him get up and win. However, add to that an illegal punch whilst Khan was down and he didn't recover.

[adamiw]

well considering Khan-Prescott was PPV i'd be pretty upset if the opponent was a walk-over....everyone knows in boxing, that when you match-make for a PPV audience the priority is to make sure that the viewers are getting value for money....and i think that's what Warren was trying to do (....and dare i say, did)

We've seen it time and time again....opponents coming from africa or south america with unbeaten records, turn up and fall over as soon as they feel leather on their face (....one Scott Harrison opponent particuarly springs to mind)....well, Prescott didn't

.....and poor Jorge Rubio was made scapegoat for all of it

[oliverfennell]

Pele Reid v Orlin Norris

Reid had such a brittle chin that it would have been impossible to protect it forever. Norris was hardly a monster.

Norris may not have been a big heavy or a puncher of any note but the gulf in experience was staggering - remember Pele had no amateur fights!

It was an extremely harsh "comeback" fight after Reid lost his unbeaten record so brutally against Francis, so in that regard it was poor matchmaking - but I guess the idea was Reid was given a "sink or swim" assignment so the backers would know if he was worth their continued investment.

[Exoddus]

That Tyson Furry match made me laugh. The guy was something like 5 stone lighter!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Marvis Frazier v Larry Holmes.
Then Mike Tyson, just incase he didn't get the message first time round.

Poor old Marvis - I always got the impression he had no choice but to be a fighter. He wasn't that bad either, just not a patch on his old man.

[DavidPayne]

Esham Pickering v Mauricio Martinez (sp) was cold hearted slaughter.

Eddie Corft v Erik Morales in a charity-benefit fight which the WBC sanctioned as a title fight.

[bennie]

Colombian banger Edison "Pantera" Miranda ticks over against Oklahoma fall guy Manuel Esparza in Florida on January 14, a 'fight' optimistically scheduled for eight rounds.
Miranda might be excused a 'gimme' after he was thumped in four rounds in his last fight in June by Armenian strongman Arthur Abraham but Esparza looks scandalously bad and would never be allowed to fight Miranda here. The 30-year-old Esparza, from Oklahoma City, turned pro at 14 in 1992, fought some decent enough names in his middleweight heyday of the late 1990s but walked away from the sport after Pennsylvania's Chris Walsh outscored him over 12 rounds in April 2000. Esparza reappeared at heavyweight earlier this year to win a four-rounder. He weighed 204lbs, and will have some serious Christmas fasting to do to get ready for super-middleweight Miranda, although you would presume Miranda will move up to light-heavyweight. You would hope.
One fight in eight years, a lot of boiling down, Oklahoma, the 30-3 (26) Miranda - Esparza has an awful lot against him. Frankly, this match stinks.

[Datsue]

Khan got caught from a left jab, which wobbled his legs a bit, then Precott connected cleanly to Khan's chin with a great left, dropping him. As Khan hit the deck, Prescott whacked him with a big right.

We all know Khan is liable to go down from punches- and in the past we have seen him get up and win. However, add to that an illegal punch whilst Khan was down and he didn't recover.

Sorry to derail the thread, but that's incredibly disingenuous to say the right hand (which couldn't have landed flush with full extension EVEN IF IT DID LAND, 'cos Amir was falling away from the punch so fast, having collapsed after the left hook) did all that damage. It smacks of spin-meistering, ballyhooing & creative rewriting of consensus reality.

[levi billups]

Does Arturo Gatti v Joey Gamache count? To allow one boxer to weight at least 15 lbs more than another on fight night is not only incompetent, it is negligent. Result - horrible and predictable knockout

[Datsue]

Does Arturo Gatti v Joey Gamache count? To allow one boxer to weight at least 15 lbs more than another on fight night is not only incompetent, it is negligent. Result - horrible and predictable knockout

That's a good'un, & I agree the size difference was phenomenal at the time which makes it an awful fight but it must have been a nightmare matching Gatti -- sometimes he'd go out there & flatten a bloke who was supposed to give him Hell & sometimes he'd catch a proper hiding & get mullered in return.

Weren't the Ivan Robinson fights meant to be sacrificial confidence-builders after Pito Cardona had smashed up the Philly fighter?

[TerribleTerry]

Norris may not have been a big heavy or a puncher of any note but the gulf in experience was staggering - remember Pele had no amateur fights!

It was an extremely harsh "comeback" fight after Reid lost his unbeaten record so brutally against Francis, so in that regard it was poor matchmaking - but I guess the idea was Reid was given a "sink or swim" assignment so the backers would know if he was worth their continued investment.

I dont think that was the case here Oliver.

As I remember it Ingle had such faith in Pele's ability he wanted him to get straight back into the mix.

It may have been a 'sink or swim' in reality but at the time Brendan was bullish about what he saw as a richly talented heavy. I myself was at the York Hall when Francis schooled Pele and looked on in disbelief - I thought he would go alot further than he ever did.

Still, he had an entertaining up and down career but in the early days he really looked like a man on a misssion..

[metchampion]

In terms of incompetent matchmaking, for me, it depends what angle you're looking at it from. Dave Boy Green was dismantled by Carlos Palamino, yet was accepted as a challenger for Sugar Ray Leonard. Depending on what side of the fence you're on, you could argue that Green was woefully out of his depth (If you'd bought a ticket as a punter over there) However, Mr. Smith knew Dave was approaching the end of his career and this was as good a chance as any for a final big payday. So there was a massive gulf in class, but I wouldn't call it incompetent matchmaking.

On the other hand, Freddie Mills manager could have been nicked under the trades description act for impersonating a manager given some of the dreadful contests he arranged for his Son in Law. I know Freddie was in the wildernes between weights, so there was always the chance he would have to fight bigger men, but given what happened to him in the first lesnevich contest, then ANY match made thereafter was incompetent in the extreme.

As an aside.... Mickey Duff's got to be one of the most astute matchmakers in living history, but to allow his heavyweight, who was ranked at #3 by the WBC to fight 14 fight Lennox Lewis must've raised some eyebrows. If not incompetent... then questionable, given the end result, not just to Masons career, but his eyesight too.

[junior pepa seed]

Pacman v diaz

Monty 2 gunz v tye fields

Benn v cherry

Pacman v dlh

Cotto v margaritto

All look good on paper but when it came to the crunch they where bad fights to take.

[Counter-puncher]

As an aside.... Mickey Duff's got to be one of the most astute matchmakers in living history, but to allow his heavyweight, who was ranked at #3 by the WBC to fight 14 fight Lennox Lewis must've raised some eyebrows. If not incompetent... then questionable, given the end result, not just to Masons career, but his eyesight too.

good point met. i wondered about it at the time. wondered if, maybe, given Mason's obvious l;imitations, Duff just wanted to get him the biggest money fight possible at that time on the basis his career wouldn't be very long....? if that makes sense?

[ArtOfWar]

I know it happened a while ago, but I just can't believe that Fwank put Amir Khan in with an unbeaten knockout artist in a fight that wasn't even an eliminator. Surely there cannot be a worse piece of matchmaking ever?

It made no sense at all. In terms of the talent and marketability of Khan.

Surely it must have been the most costly bit of incompetence ever? Any others?

Not really, Prescott was unknown coming in and hadn't beaten anyone of note. He's still unproven now. It might just be that he caught Khan cold and isn't as good as the ko suggests.

[Autobarn]

Aftre the Gomez fight, McCrory was critical of Khan.

Now, after getting sparked in one, he's a believer!

[DavidPayne]

McCrory and Nelson are lovely fellas and know more about boxing than I could dream of. But despite that.....they know who pays the bills and it isn't Fence Post PLC or Balanced and Informed Perspective & Son.

[Autobarn]

I always liked the Sky presentation, after I got over the slightly too slick and impersonal style. However the studio guys always seemed reliable.

Now it's like they're just glad to have their jobs. Sometimes they used to be brutally honest, but not so anymore, not if it's with a certain promoter LOL

[DavidPayne]

Proving beyond doubt "you can polish a charade".

Hang on I've got that wrong somewhere.

[banjo]

I thought the guys on Sky were fantastic between the latter half of 2005 up to later this year, anyone wonder why that may be?

For me Jim Watt is excellent as both a co-commentator and a studio analyst, beats anyone this side or the otherside of the atlantic IMO.