Joe Calzaghe's unbeaten record - the facts and the maths

[fist]

He did discuss it - at the press conference in the UK before their fight. He attempted to explain it by saying that the time was not right back then, and furthermore started jabbering on about how the time was now right. Basically, he had no good excuse and spoke quite abstract about it. Irrelveant - they fought and Joe won.

[josh fg]

avoided no one, thats why the Ottke victory was such a barn stormer then... oh know wait!

[states]

Hopkins circa 2002 is actually the one non-fight I don't blame Calzaghe for. Jay Larkin has been quoted as saying Hopkins' people agreed to step up to 168lb's, for a $3,000,000 purse then changed their mind the next day, asking for $6,000,000.

[Deserter]

avoided no one, thats why the Ottke victory was such a barn stormer then... oh know wait!

Along with the Hopkins one, another bad example to use, given that Ottke's old trainer was quoted as saying that Sven didn't want the fight.
However, there's no doubt Joe did avoid certain fights at certain times and his standing in the 'all time' lists will rightly suffer as a result.

[deadpan]

Joe could've faced -

Beyer
Jones Jr (peak)
Ottke
Michaelzewski
Mundine
Echols
Johnson
Tarver


If his '0' didn't go in that group I'd have been amazed.

[Hagler2002]

Hopkins swerved Joe for 5M and took about $100,000 to fight some nobody! FACT! The only person who Joe could have fought was Ottke!! hopkins talks like a beast but runs and holds like a coward when the fight starts! he didnt take a forward step even after dropping Calzaghe. Please get real people.

WOW drunk at 5:07pm. I tip my hat to you sir.

[Deserter]

Joe could've faced -

Beyer
Jones Jr (peak)
Ottke
Michaelzewski
Mundine
Echols
Johnson
Tarver


If his '0' didn't go in that group I'd have been amazed.

I'd have fancied Calzaghe to preserve his '0' against all listed bar a peak Jones Jr. To paraphrase Larry Holmes, the likes of Mundine and Echols aren't fit to carry Joe's jockstrap

[Twinkle Toes]

Here we go again.

[nobby_nobbins]

A peak Calzaghe would have been a nightmare for Jones because he had knockout power back then and a cast iron chin. He wouldn't have been intimidated by Jones and would have mobbed him to defeat - a bit like Griffin, but with more skill, resilience and power. Jones would have started his cocky self, but the sight of Calzaghe shrugging off his potshots and piling in with his own flurries would have soon sapped his confidence. The bottom line is that Calzaghe is a more intelligent tactical fighter than Jones - always has been. Jones, even at his peak, was essentially a fast, flashy, powerful potshotter. Potshotters don't beat Joe Calzaghe. The Michalczewski who beat Barber and Griffin would have been a much harder proposition for Joe. Joe could also have lost to Ottke in Germany because there was a strong chance he'd have had to deal with a dodgy ref and judges. I remember Robin Reid getting ticked off by the ref whenever he landed a punch. It broke his rhythm and confidence. With neutral officials, Calzaghe would have humiliated the workmanlike Ottke.

[observer1]

Wow. Amazing how much of Fr@nk W@rrents Crap people can eat, and not get enough of.

Hopkins ducked nobody. His Career resume says it all.

IF you think someone like Hopkins or RJJ are going to come all the way for a 'superfight' in "Cardiff" you are mistaken.
Calzaghe, under Warren took effectivley no risks. I mean it's pathetic and a disgrace that the "best" bouts Calzaghe has had is against Lacy and Kessler. I mean that's just a bad joke.

Face it. Calzaghe bareley survived against a 43 year old Hopkins, and tipped a dodgy SD. I can't begin to imagine what would have happened had this bout taken place a few years ago.

But i guess Calzaghe was too busy fighting in Half-Empty stadiums against his Mandatories. Face it mate, facts are facts. Calzaghe has talent, but the guy wasted his career, just like all Frank's clients.

That's why Hatton gets more respect with British Fans, because although he has done his fair share of ducking, he atleast went Prime v Prime with a World-Class Fighter: Mayweather. He got KTFO mind, and was probably blinded by the Pay-Check, that said he knows where he stands, and has atleast gone Prime v Prime. Whereas Calzaghe, throughout his entire career has never done that. Sorry, but the word "Fraud" comes to mind

[CheckHook]

It doesn't really matter who ducked who and who was avoided. The unfortunate fact is that Calzaghe did not manage to get in the ring with a few of the guys he should have when they and he were in there prime and that will always count against his legacy. Anyone, however, who thinks Calzaghe's legacy to the sport is worthless has not been paying too much attention over the last few years.

[Hagler2002]

Opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one!

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

What percentage of fighters lose their 4-1 on fights?

[stujones]

A peak Calzaghe would have been a nightmare for Jones because he had knockout power back then and a cast iron chin. He wouldn't have been intimidated by Jones and would have mobbed him to defeat - a bit like Griffin, but with more skill, resilience and power. Jones would have started his cocky self, but the sight of Calzaghe shrugging off his potshots and piling in with his own flurries would have soon sapped his confidence. The bottom line is that Calzaghe is a more intelligent tactical fighter than Jones - always has been. Jones, even at his peak, was essentially a fast, flashy, powerful potshotter. Potshotters don't beat Joe Calzaghe. The Michalczewski who beat Barber and Griffin would have been a much harder proposition for Joe. Joe could also have lost to Ottke in Germany because there was a strong chance he'd have had to deal with a dodgy ref and judges. I remember Robin Reid getting ticked off by the ref whenever he landed a punch. It broke his rhythm and confidence. With neutral officials, Calzaghe would have humiliated the workmanlike Ottke.

When did Joe have a knockout punch, he has KO'd a fighter in his championship reign - not as in a KO. He's floored a few, and a series of punches has caused a fighter to be stopped on his feet - alot of the time prematurely!

When was Roy a pot shotter in his prime? When did Griffin beat Joe? Griffin was losing when the DQ happend - it wasn't even close.

[Dioufy]

The Griffin fight was very close when it got stopped - I'm sure the HBO lads had it level, or Griffin just winning.

[nobby_nobbins]

When did Joe have a knockout punch, he has KO'd a fighter in his championship reign - not as in a KO. He's floored a few, and a series of punches has caused a fighter to be stopped on his feet - alot of the time prematurely!

When was Roy a pot shotter in his prime? When did Griffin beat Joe? Griffin was losing when the DQ happend - it wasn't even close.

Joe once had enough power once to knock over the iron chinned Chris Eubank - something the huge-punching cruiserweight Thompson couldn't do after Calzaghe had finished with him. I'm not saying Calzaghe was Ernie Shavers, but he could punch with real authority. Many of the shots were pitty pats, even in his prime, but mixed in amongst them were real bombs. The bombs have gone now, as has the cast iron chin. The guy has been in a lot of hard fights and suffered a lot of injuries - the speed and stamina remain but he's relatively frail these days.

Roy was a pot shotter in his prime because he threw a low volume of punches. He relied on flashy single shots - leaping left hooks, uppercuts etc.

In answer to your other question, Montell Griffin beat Roy Jones in 1997. Look at the record books if you don't believe me. The fact that Jones won the rematch doesn't erase the first result from history. Sure, Jones was getting the upper hand when the DQ came, but Montell had mobbed Jones round after round. If Jones had been feeling comfortable in there I don't think the "boxing master" would have resorted to a cheap shot while Griffin was on the deck. Griffin was nothing special - he just didn't stand back and wait to be hit like most of Jones' star struck opponents at the time. Griffin had workrate and knew how to get close, but didn't have the finesse, physical strength or power of Calzaghe. I'm not saying Calzaghe would have beaten everyone during his peak, but I think he'd have been all wrong for Jones.

[nobby_nobbins]

Calzaghe bareley survived against a 43 year old Hopkins, and tipped a dodgy SD. I can't begin to imagine what would have happened had this bout taken place a few years ago.

Well I can easily imagine what would have happened if Calzaghe had faced Hopkins a few years ago. That Hopkins had less defensive guile and would have got more involved and lost more conclusively. It would also have been a more entertaining fight. Aren't you embarrassed to keep on suggesting Hopkins is past it after everyone's just seen him school Pavlik? Old yes, past it no. What he's lost in stamina, he's gained in ring intelligence, and his speed, reflexes and chin are still intact.

[stujones]

When did Joe have a knockout punch, he has KO'd a fighter in his championship reign - not as in a KO. He's floored a few, and a series of punches has caused a fighter to be stopped on his feet - alot of the time prematurely!

When was Roy a pot shotter in his prime? When did Griffin beat Joe? Griffin was losing when the DQ happend - it wasn't even close.

Joe once had enough power once to knock over the iron chinned Chris Eubank - something the huge-punching cruiserweight Thompson couldn't do after Calzaghe had finished with him. I'm not saying Calzaghe was Ernie Shavers, but he could punch with real authority. Many of the shots were pitty pats, even in his prime, but mixed in amongst them were real bombs. The bombs have gone now, as has the cast iron chin. The guy has been in a lot of hard fights and suffered a lot of injuries - the speed and stamina remain but he's relatively frail these days.

Roy was a pot shotter in his prime because he threw a low volume of punches. He relied on flashy single shots - leaping left hooks, uppercuts etc.

In answer to your other question, Montell Griffin beat Roy Jones in 1997. Look at the record books if you don't believe me. The fact that Jones won the rematch doesn't erase the first result from history. Sure, Jones was getting the upper hand when the DQ came, but Montell had mobbed Jones round after round. If Jones had been feeling comfortable in there I don't think the "boxing master" would have resorted to a cheap shot while Griffin was on the deck. Griffin was nothing special - he just didn't stand back and wait to be hit like most of Jones' star struck opponents at the time. Griffin had workrate and knew how to get close, but didn't have the finesse, physical strength or power of Calzaghe. I'm not saying Calzaghe would have beaten everyone during his peak, but I think he'd have been all wrong for Jones.

Yes, I know the result of the fight - but I really thought it was a harsh call. I don't know why Jones did it, he was well in control in the fight. Yes, it wasn't his most convincing fight - but I thought he was comfortably infront and I think it would have been outrageous if Montel got the decision.

I really don't like sounding like a Calzaghe hater, because despite my criticisms I am not. However, I think the record shows that he caught a rusty Eubank with a beauty a little cold - cause he couldn't repeat the success and he couldn't score KD's on so called Chinny fighters like Charles Brewer - or was he past his prime then?

I think given that Griffin is a career long Light Heavy, he does have superior strength to Joe and I think Jones has done the most deterioriating, in ALL departments, than Joe has. His own power has wained considerably and he had the power to hurt and admittedly more frailer Joe - would he have hurt a peak Joe. I am not sure, but personally I think that gaping flaw in Joe's defence would have been exposed continually by someone as fast and as clever as Roy, lets not forget Roy was an Outstanding amateur - so a clever fighter, not just an athlete.

[Dioufy]

I do agree there, Nobby. I also think Calzaghe would've dealt easier with the more offensive and more open Hopkins of a few years ago. It was his inability to attack Joe what led to the fight being very close, which in my opinion, Hopkins edged.

[stujones]

It was actually the guys that didn't throw a large number of punches that gave Joe most problems - Robin Reid didn't throw much, neither did Hopkins. Its the straight right hand that was the key to the problems they gave him.

[Dioufy]

If that's aimed at me then I didn't dispute that. It's fairly obvious that guys that want to counter Joe will give him more problems than guys who will come to knock his head off. I did say Joe would've dealt more easily with a more offensive Hopkins.