In the heat of battle- when all else has failed - would you rather fight until you can not continue and go out of your shield OR just pull out in the corner?
In terns of health it is obviously better to save yourself, but we all know most fighters would rather leave it all in the ring.
Ultimately it depends on what condition you are in, if you're taking an absolute drubbing(like DLH) or you simply have nothing left and can't carry on(like Robinson v Maxim) then fair enough but if you quit because your opponents pulling faces at you and taunting you but you're still in the fight and you quit then it's unforgivable.
banjo wrote:Ultimately it depends on what condition you are in, if you're taking an absolute drubbing(like DLH) or you simply have nothing left and can't carry on(like Robinson v Maxim) then fair enough but if you quit because your opponents pulling faces at you and taunting you but you're still in the fight and you quit then it's unforgivable.
I agree....to a point!
Some take their drubbing - others bail out -it mst be mental?
banjo wrote:Ultimately it depends on what condition you are in, if you're taking an absolute drubbing(like DLH) or you simply have nothing left and can't carry on(like Robinson v Maxim) then fair enough but if you quit because your opponents pulling faces at you and taunting you but you're still in the fight and you quit then it's unforgivable.
I agree....to a point!
Some take their drubbing - others bail out -it mst be mental?
Most likely it is mental, Duran definitely didn't want to be in the ring with Leonard in their second fight even though he was still in the fight with over seven rounds to go but he turned round and quit saying something along the lines of "I don't want to fight with this clown" or something like that. He became a national embarrasment and even a figure of hate to Panamanians but he managed to redeem himself by going on to fight the likes of Benitez, Hagler and Hearns.
banjo wrote:Ultimately it depends on what condition you are in, if you're taking an absolute drubbing(like DLH) or you simply have nothing left and can't carry on(like Robinson v Maxim) then fair enough but if you quit because your opponents pulling faces at you and taunting you but you're still in the fight and you quit then it's unforgivable.
I agree....to a point!
Some take their drubbing - others bail out -it mst be mental?
Most likely it is mental, Duran definitely didn't want to be in the ring with Leonard in their second fight even though he was still in the fight with over seven rounds to go but he turned round and quit saying something along the lines of "I don't want to fight with this clown" or something like that. He became a national embarrasment and even a figure of hate to Panamanians but he managed to redeem himself by going on to fight the likes of Benitez, Hagler and Hearns.
With Duran it was no doubt mental. One of the most vicious men in the ring - God help you in a street fight with that nutcase!
Need must also come into it - if you are rich then you may think 'why bother?' - if your are poor..hunger kicks in!
DG. wrote:Need must also come into it - if you are rich then you may think 'why bother?' - if your are poor..hunger kicks in!
That could possibly be Oscars reason if indeed he did quit, he was already set up for life before he even fought Tito so maybe he thought "f**k it, why take much more of this?"
I read an explanation of Duran quitting, which made it seem a little more forgivable.
He was basically humiliated - and Leonard wouldn't actually 'fight' him, not in any sense that Duran regarded a fight anyhow - he was also woefully out of shape, crapping himself due to laxatives, and being made to look a complete fool by a man who wouldn't even engage him in a real 'mans' fight.
In those terms, someone as macho as Duran, you can understand - he would probably have welcomed it if Leonard was trying to take his head off - after all, he walked right into shots from Tommy Hearns.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:In those terms, someone as macho as Duran, you can understand - he would probably have welcomed it if Leonard was trying to take his head off - after all, he walked right into shots from Tommy Hearns.
Well absolutely, he proved he was no coward by going in with Hearns etc. but at the time I believe he was seen as a quitter and a bully by a lot of boxing press and fans and also by some of his own countrymen.
DG. wrote:Need must also come into it - if you are rich then you may think 'why bother?' - if your are poor..hunger kicks in!
That could possibly be Oscars reason if indeed he did quit, he was already set up for life before he even fought Tito so maybe he thought "f**k it, why take much more of this?"
I think so - Oscar is in it for money and when the going gets tougfh....Oscar gets going...out of the fight!
Ask Billy Ocean.
DG: Billy!
Billy: Yes DG?
DG: What do you think of Oscar?
Billy: Sing it Boxrec......
'Ooooohhhhhhhaaoooooahhhhhhhh - When the going gets tough - Oscar gets going - when the going gets rouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugghhhhh - Oscar a apowder puff!!
'Ooooohhhhhhhaaoooooahhhhhhhh - When the going gets tough - Oscar gets going - when the going gets rouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugghhhhh - Oscar a apowder puff!!
Some take their drubbing - others bail out -it mst be mental?
Most likely it is mental, Duran definitely didn't want to be in the ring with Leonard in their second fight even though he was still in the fight with over seven rounds to go but he turned round and quit saying something along the lines of "I don't want to fight with this clown" or something like that. He became a national embarrasment and even a figure of hate to Panamanians but he managed to redeem himself by going on to fight the likes of Benitez, Hagler and Hearns.
With Duran it was no doubt mental. One of the most vicious men in the ring - God help you in a street fight with that nutcase!
Need must also come into it - if you are rich then you may think 'why bother?' - if your are poor..hunger kicks in!
Yeah, of course it was mental. Leonard was dancing around and Duran just got pissed off and said f**k this. A lot has been made over the years about that fight, but people tend to get the wrong impression a lot of the time in my opinion. It's not like Duran was getting beaten up, Duran just lost his cool and said f**k it, this guy is fighting like a bitch.
DG. wrote:Rather go out fighting or quit on your stool?
Maybe the Pro's/fighters can answer this?
Mooresy? Dodson? Cocom- Bessey etc.
In the heat of battle- when all else has failed - would you rather fight until you can not continue and go out of your shield OR just pull out in the corner?
In terns of health it is obviously better to save yourself, but we all know most fighters would rather leave it all in the ring.
What would you do?
DG i think you know what my answer is gonna be, i'm in there to win, no matter what. What i do know is that when your in that situation you need someone who knows you inside out, and who you trust with your life, because essentially that's the position your trainer could find himself in. That's why i think it's important to have a normal relationship with your team, as opposed to just a working one, for them to find out what makes you tick. I wouldn't like to put my life into someones hands who i'd only known, and who'd only knew me, for 10 weeks.
Pretty easy for someone sat in front of a PC screen after 4 mulled wines on December 23rd, who has never fought, to say they would never quit in a boxing match
Go outside, run 10 miles, put your hands behind your back and go and pick a fight with a deranged Hobo, then lets see*
I was only a journeyman, so my great pride was in going the distance and it meant a great deal to me, so personally I always wanted to stick it out to the bitter end even though sometimes that meant being a bit negative and going into my shell
It would be easy enough to come on and say i'll fight to the death regardless - but you have to take a lot of other issues into account. I'm certainly not going to bash oscar for taking a way out, same as i wouldn't bash Kostya Tzsyu - both have fought at the top level for that long, and against great fighters - i think it would be extremely harsh for me to call them cowards. At the end of the day, when you have to consider your future health, your family, your kids? I can't blame them. I like to think i'd hang in there until the death, but I can't say for certain, in their circumstances, that i would.
As a side, Mooresy, thanks for an amazing number of great fights - just wish you had got Baysungurov before K9 did. Now we know why he pulled out twice. Happy christmas everyone.
DG. wrote:Rather go out fighting or quit on your stool?
Maybe the Pro's/fighters can answer this?
Mooresy? Dodson? Cocom- Bessey etc.
In the heat of battle- when all else has failed - would you rather fight until you can not continue and go out of your shield OR just pull out in the corner?
In terns of health it is obviously better to save yourself, but we all know most fighters would rather leave it all in the ring.
What would you do?
DG i think you know what my answer is gonna be, i'm in there to win, no matter what. What i do know is that when your in that situation you need someone who knows you inside out, and who you trust with your life, because essentially that's the position your trainer could find himself in. That's why i think it's important to have a normal relationship with your team, as opposed to just a working one, for them to find out what makes you tick. I wouldn't like to put my life into someones hands who i'd only known, and who'd only knew me, for 10 weeks.
Gwannnn Mooresey!!
I knew you would be there to win!
Interesting point about the trainer knowing the fighter and their mooods/ways!
Is amazing to think people DO have peopole that don't know them making what could be life and death decisions.
Coco wrote:I was only a journeyman, so my great pride was in going the distance and it meant a great deal to me, so personally I always wanted to stick it out to the bitter end even though sometimes that meant being a bit negative and going into my shell
Thanks for the quote coco! The main thing is you stayed there to the end or tried to and as a fighter brought in to teach the other guy a few things you are most likely up against some hungry bastards so its good to hang in there! On my BlackBerry so can't add much or add smilies etc but sounds like pride is in all fighters! Well. Most! Lol
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Quit on my stool. I don't think I'd have the heart in it. Too much is put on going out on your shield. Just ask Levander Johnson's family.
Re: Leavender, tragic event and obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe if he knew (obviously he did not ) he were to die as a result of that fight then he would rather have gone out as he did ..on his shield refusing to give in despite it all.
RIP Levander.
As I mentioned earlier, its not every fighter that goes out on his shield - but it seems most want to finish the fight or WIN WIN WIN no matter what.
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Quit on my stool. I don't think I'd have the heart in it. Too much is put on going out on your shield. Just ask Levander Johnson's family.
Re: Leavender, tragic event and obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe if he knew (obviously he did not ) he were to die as a result of that fight then he would rather have gone out as he did ..on his shield refusing to give in despite it all.
RIP Levander.
As I mentioned earlier, its not every fighter that goes out on his shield - but it seems most want to finish the fight or WIN WIN WIN no matter what.
ps, I know you would quit.
What a tool you are. As if Leavander would have continued if he knew he was going to die - what he would have rather just fought on for pride - and leave his wife and children behind.
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Quit on my stool. I don't think I'd have the heart in it. Too much is put on going out on your shield. Just ask Levander Johnson's family.
Re: Leavender, tragic event and obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe if he knew (obviously he did not ) he were to die as a result of that fight then he would rather have gone out as he did ..on his shield refusing to give in despite it all.
RIP Levander.
As I mentioned earlier, its not every fighter that goes out on his shield - but it seems most want to finish the fight or WIN WIN WIN no matter what.
ps, I know you would quit.
What a tool you are. As if Leavander would have continued if he knew he was going to die - what he would have rather just fought on for pride - and leave his wife and children behind.
You really do chat shit.
You stupid fecking arsehole.
You have missed the point- the point is - he fought and sadly he passed on doing what he LOVED.
Now - SHUT YOUR FACE and calm yourself down.
Now read the post again -you bitch - and get back in your box.
You have heard the phrase used in certain situations....'He died doing what he loved'?
By that people mean he would have preferred to go out as he did than any other way! NOT THAT HE CHOSE TO GO OUT!
Now do not put words into my mouth about his wife and kids etc - use your loaf, son.
jeej wrote:In fairness, DG, your post wasn't worded particularly well. Until you explained, I too, thought that you meant he would have chosen to die.
Did this on my blackberry and a bit rushed and always messes thing up due to my scroller not working - do not have time to gpo back and correct wording etc(sometimes!)
..BUT the attack from James donut boy was a bit OTT, she must be upset about something!
Last edited by DG. on 24 Dec 2008, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.
