Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

TRUTH IS A MOVING TARGET

When Denny Moyer came out to San Diego he didn't have much left. He fought way too much. He needed the money. It was risky for him to go in there,but he didn't care. A lot of those guys like Moyer, when they should have hung them up long ago,keep on fighting. They don't worry about it. Moyer certainly didn't worry about it. I don't know what he worried about. Prohibition wasn't coming back.

He plugged along at the old Coliseum. Sometimes he was in there with a young talent. He'd lose,but what his young opponents learned from Denny in the ring,they should have split their half of the purse with him. Sometimes though Moyer would have a "mark." A fighter who had no qualifications being in the ring with him. One of these guys was a fellow named Vicente Medina.

Medina's career never had any golden era. There wasn't a peak. No fights in the Garden. No Sugar Rays or Griffiths on his resume. One night he had the opportunity to chalk up a win against a man who had been in there with the aforementioned. Now when Denny beat you,you didn't wind up in the hospital. You just went back to school. You had learned a lesson. How to slip punches. How to work inside. Movement and leverage. You learned a lot when you fought Moyer.

Well that night Vicente should have filmed the proceedings. Everything Moyer could do ,Vicente couldn't. Medina was pissin' into the wind. He'd lead and couldn't follow. He countered too late. He stumbled,Moyer moved. Vicente was looking at a moving target. He didn't have enough ammunition to hit a bulls eye.

After it was over Medina stayed in Palookaville. Moyer lived there too now. The sad thing was Denny had no business taking up residence in a place like that..

Very true, Rog. Sad to see special boxers end up in such a place. I never saw Moyer fight live. Mel Epstein, who had promoted in the Pacific Northwest, would comment on Denny Moyer on occasion. Years later, when I'd meet Joey Giambra in Las Vegas, he spoke of Denny Moyer, whom he'd fought in the first Jr. Middleweight title fight. Moyer won a close one, Giambra was a little bitter. The fight had taken place after he'd suffered what should have been a career ending car accident. Yet, he never criticized Moyer in anyway, just the outcome.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

90 years after he won the world title the BBC produced this documentary about Jack Johnson, narrated by Lennox Lewis

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ton_Giant/

Thanks Rob.

[dagosd2000]

TRUTH IS A MOVING TARGET

When Denny Moyer came out to San Diego he didn't have much left. He fought way too much. He needed the money. It was risky for him to go in there,but he didn't care. A lot of those guys like Moyer, when they should have hung them up long ago,keep on fighting. They don't worry about it. Moyer certainly didn't worry about it. I don't know what he worried about. Prohibition wasn't coming back.

He plugged along at the old Coliseum. Sometimes he was in there with a young talent. He'd lose,but what his young opponents learned from Denny in the ring,they should have split their half of the purse with him. Sometimes though Moyer would have a "mark." A fighter who had no qualifications being in the ring with him. One of these guys was a fellow named Vicente Medina.

Medina's career never had any golden era. There wasn't a peak. No fights in the Garden. No Sugar Rays or Griffiths on his resume. One night he had the opportunity to chalk up a win against a man who had been in there with the aforementioned. Now when Denny beat you,you didn't wind up in the hospital. You just went back to school. You had learned a lesson. How to slip punches. How to work inside. Movement and leverage. You learned a lot when you fought Moyer.

Well that night Vicente should have filmed the proceedings. Everything Moyer could do ,Vicente couldn't. Medina was pissin' into the wind. He'd lead and couldn't follow. He countered too late. He stumbled,Moyer moved. Vicente was looking at a moving target. He didn't have enough ammunition to hit a bulls eye.

After it was over Medina stayed in Palookaville. Moyer lived there too now. The sad thing was Denny had no business taking up residence in a place like that..

In 1973 I worked with Vicente Medina in his fight against Frank "Paco" Flores in Tucson, Arizona, which he lost by s.d, Medina ko David Love, dont remember if it was before or after the Flores fight

Frank
As I mentioned before,I bump into David Love maybe once a year. I thought he was full of himself when he was a fighter. Kind of still is,but if you can get through that ,he's an all right guy. Told me his record as a fighter was 33 and 2. Ok,so you don't know what to believe when he speaks. He beats Briscoe,Watts,and Willie Monroe. Then loses fights to some real mediocre talent. Very interesting career. Would like to bump into him again and do a story on him. Said Napoles was the best fighter he ever saw.

[dagosd2000]

Rick
Monica mentioned that next year you guys go to Brazil. She said Eder Jofre is the Mayor of San Paulo. You're planning on doing an interview. Don't know how long you're going to be there,but you could have the boxing story of the year. As you know ,he was one of the Great Champions. Like Hap and Frank say,they regret a guy like Manny Ortiz is no longer with us. Interviews with him today would be priceless.

Go down to Brazil and kick ass with meeting Jofre. Not much of the outside world knows much about him. If anyone can put it together,it's you. Rog

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_EAvdNi518
The Forentine Gardens

[dagosd2000]

DAD,POPS,AND MICKEY

Turner Classics featured Mickey Rooney this afternoon. The Andy Hardy stuff. Kind of corny maybe by today's standards. Today's standard don't mean much though. I marvel about this guy. He could sing ,dance,play the drums,paint,compose songs,and of course most people remember him as Andy Hardy. However as a dramatic actor,he was as good as it gets. Requiem For A Heavyweight and Bridges At Toko Ri come to mind.

Judy Garland and Cary Grant said he was the best talent in Hollywood. Didn't work much after the Andy Hardy stuff wore off. Robert Osbourne ,the excellent host of TCM,interviewed Mickey . Osbourne was smart of enough not to steal the play from him. If he could have anyway.

A guy like Rooney who worked under Louie B. Mayer,starred with Judy Garland,directed by Busby Berkley,and married to Ava Gardner. Keep your mouth shut and let him run with it. Mickey's still with us. What a wealth of knowlege. How he can tell a story with such animated emotion. What a character.

Mickey told a story of how he got into a beef with a director. He told the story with a dynamic recall that had Osbourne sitting in his chair transfixed. They could of thrown Mickey an Oscar right there.
The man is still with us and no one wants him.

Mickey said it best about his career. It's in three stages. One,"Hey,that new kid Rooney is great for the part."

Two,"Hey, get me someone like Mickey Rooney."

Three,"Who's Mickey Rooney?"

He's living number three. But I know about you Mick. Frank and Hap and Rick,and the rest of us do too. We yearn for nostalgia,but no one wants you today. Go figure.

Rooney is something out of Damon Runyan. So was my dad. So is Pops Hanley. They broke the mold as they say. Clear the room. Hide the women and children. Here comes the hurricane.

My dad is physically gone,but the hurricane is still blowin'. Mickey is in a corner somewhere. A buddy said he saw him at Disneyland last year eating an ice cream cone with his wife. They were by themselves. Pops I know you're still puttin' up a fuss. Go ahead,kick Danny one in the balls for us.

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_EAvdNi518
The Forentine Gardens

Fellas' in coats and ties,gals wearin' hats and white gloves. Good stuff Frank.

[scartissue]

DAD,POPS,AND MICKEY

Turner Classics featured Mickey Rooney this afternoon. The Andy Hardy stuff. Kind of corny maybe by today's standards. Today's standard don't mean much though. I marvel about this guy. He could sing ,dance,play the drums,paint,compose songs,and of course most people remember him as Andy Hardy. However as a dramatic actor,he was as good as it gets. Requiem For A Heavyweight and Bridges At Toko Ri come to mind.

Judy Garland and Cary Grant said he was the best talent in Hollywood. Didn't work much after the Andy Hardy stuff wore off. Robert Osbourne ,the excellent host of TCM,interviewed Mickey . Osbourne was smart of enough not to steal the play from him. If he could have anyway.

A guy like Rooney who worked under Louie B. Mayer,starred with Judy Garland,directed by Busby Berkley,and married to Ava Gardner. Keep your mouth shut and let him run with it. Mickey's still with us. What a wealth of knowlege. How he can tell a story with such animated emotion. What a character.

Mickey told a story of how he got into a beef with a director. He told the story with a dynamic recall that had Osbourne sitting in his chair transfixed. They could of thrown Mickey an Oscar right there.
The man is still with us and no one wants him.

Mickey said it best about his career. It's in three stages. One,"Hey,that new kid Rooney is great for the part."

Two,"Hey, get me someone like Mickey Rooney."

Three,"Who's Mickey Rooney?"

He's living number three. But I know about you Mick. Frank and Hap and Rick,and the rest of us do too. We yearn for nostalgia,but no one wants you today. Go figure.

Rooney is something out of Damon Runyan. So was my dad. So is Pops Hanley. They broke the mold as they say. Clear the room. Hide the women and children. Here comes the hurricane.

My dad is physically gone,but the hurricane is still blowin'. Mickey is in a corner somewhere. A buddy said he saw him at Disneyland last year eating an ice cream cone with his wife. They were by themselves. Pops I know you're still puttin' up a fuss. Go ahead,kick Danny one in the balls for us.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! You guys are gettin' way too free with my balls. Volunteering the twins for a kickin' has to stop now!!! I got enough of an ass kickin' from Pops when I was a kid. Of course I won't deny I deserved it, but it didn't do me one bit of harm either. It's funny isn't it? We look after our old fellas now, but we all remember when they were bigger than life. Good memories Rog.

Scartissue

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAPMvhD62kA
Los Ageles Streetcars...The Final Years

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbEqX6OQWw
Long Beach Nu Pike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNxkw9TqvSg
The History of The Lido Ballroom

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSKrvEdLXaM
"That's My Desire"

Frankie Laine

[kikibalt]

Mario Lanza

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6PZvj49IuM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmF6t-RGsXQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHtFdDE78uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzL-eGDYIJA

[kikibalt]

Ritchie Valens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5uJCRUFeH4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coy8Hoa1DNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWNJuyK3PK0

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u_OnVhh82E
When A Man Loves A Woman

Percy Sledge

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nA18g_PwG0
Sittin' On The Dock of The Bay

Ortis Redding

[kikibalt]

Santo & Johnny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqC1I9yTqvk
Maria Elena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bFp-DlVNtk
Sleepwalk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0acpc6w_Qs
Mona Lisa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSde6k1pXDQ
Moonlight Serenade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_xFJbGaEM
Strangers In The Night

[Rick Farris]

Rick
Monica mentioned that next year you guys go to Brazil. She said Eder Jofre is the Mayor of San Paulo. You're planning on doing an interview. Don't know how long you're going to be there,but you could have the boxing story of the year. As you know ,he was one of the Great Champions. Like Hap and Frank say,they regret a guy like Manny Ortiz is no longer with us. Interviews with him today would be priceless.

Go down to Brazil and kick ass with meeting Jofre. Not much of the outside world knows much about him. If anyone can put it together,it's you. Rog

My thoughts exactly, Roger. In addition to the written story, I'd be recording the moment on Hi-Def video and you better believe it will have a look like no other video. I used to fight OK, and I write OK, but I can light with the best in the motion pic world. I promise an interview that is visually superior to anything of it's kind, and it will be the interview to end all interviews with the great Brazilian world champ. I will be satisfied with nothing less. I'll have done my homework for this one, better believe it! Thanks for the encouragement, much appreciated.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

DAD,POPS,AND MICKEY

Turner Classics featured Mickey Rooney this afternoon. The Andy Hardy stuff. Kind of corny maybe by today's standards. Today's standard don't mean much though. I marvel about this guy. He could sing ,dance,play the drums,paint,compose songs,and of course most people remember him as Andy Hardy. However as a dramatic actor,he was as good as it gets. Requiem For A Heavyweight and Bridges At Toko Ri come to mind.

Judy Garland and Cary Grant said he was the best talent in Hollywood. Didn't work much after the Andy Hardy stuff wore off. Robert Osbourne ,the excellent host of TCM,interviewed Mickey . Osbourne was smart of enough not to steal the play from him. If he could have anyway.

A guy like Rooney who worked under Louie B. Mayer,starred with Judy Garland,directed by Busby Berkley,and married to Ava Gardner. Keep your mouth shut and let him run with it. Mickey's still with us. What a wealth of knowlege. How he can tell a story with such animated emotion. What a character.

Mickey told a story of how he got into a beef with a director. He told the story with a dynamic recall that had Osbourne sitting in his chair transfixed. They could of thrown Mickey an Oscar right there.
The man is still with us and no one wants him.

Mickey said it best about his career. It's in three stages. One,"Hey,that new kid Rooney is great for the part."

Two,"Hey, get me someone like Mickey Rooney."

Three,"Who's Mickey Rooney?"

He's living number three. But I know about you Mick. Frank and Hap and Rick,and the rest of us do too. We yearn for nostalgia,but no one wants you today. Go figure.

Rooney is something out of Damon Runyan. So was my dad. So is Pops Hanley. They broke the mold as they say. Clear the room. Hide the women and children. Here comes the hurricane.

My dad is physically gone,but the hurricane is still blowin'. Mickey is in a corner somewhere. A buddy said he saw him at Disneyland last year eating an ice cream cone with his wife. They were by themselves. Pops I know you're still puttin' up a fuss. Go ahead,kick Danny one in the balls for us.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! You guys are gettin' way too free with my balls. Volunteering the twins for a kickin' has to stop now!!! I got enough of an ass kickin' from Pops when I was a kid. Of course I won't deny I deserved it, but it didn't do me one bit of harm either. It's funny isn't it? We look after our old fellas now, but we all remember when they were bigger than life. Good memories Rog.

Scartissue

What's Pop's favorite inquiry? "How's your balls?" I suddenly become very aware that this old man might have a plan to disable me in short order. I'm always respectful, Frankie Crawford was the last to tee-off on my cajones, and an old Irishman is even more dangerous. God Belss Pop!

-Rick

[kikibalt]

"Carl Bobo Olson"

By Roger Esty

[kikibalt]

"Benny Leonard"

By Roger Esty

[dagosd2000]

OK Frank
Where do we start? The old trolley cars. Road 'em in Chicago. Took one once with my uncle and cousin in L.A. I always like to see them at night when the sparks would come off the wires.

The Pike. What a monster roller coaster. I know they have bigger ones now,but that thing was right next to the ocean. We still have a smaller version down here. Belmont Park. The city was almost going to get rid of it,but it was saved. The roller coaster and the smaller rides. Only thing they don't have is the hucksters with all those rigged games like ring toss and the sledge hammer to ring the bell.Also I miss the side shows. Even the State Fairs don't have a decent side show anymore. The music they played in back of the video is that same song they'd play at all those amusement parks. Don't know the name of it,but everytime I hear it ,it reminds me of amusement parks. The one in Chicago,that's no longer there, was called Riverview.

Mario Lanza could have been the greatest opera singer of all time. Some of his arias I still think are the best. He sang as good as Pavoratti,but Hollywood derailed his operatic career.

Richie Valens. You knew he was from the neighborhood when he made that album,"Live At Pocoima Junior High". Think of what he could have been on an Oldies But Goodies Tour?

[dagosd2000]

Forgot Santo and Johnny. Where are thay now? I look at something like American idol and can't understand the fuss. Put Santo and Johnny on American Idol today and people would look at each other. Not me,I'd be looking at the prettiest girl.

[Rick Farris]

OK Frank
Where do we start? The old trolley cars. Road 'em in Chicago. Took one once with my uncle and cousin in L.A. I always like to see them at night when the sparks would come off the wires.

The Pike. What a monster roller coaster. I know they have bigger ones now,but that thing was right next to the ocean. We still have a smaller version down here. Belmont Park. The city was almost going to get rid of it,but it was saved. The roller coaster and the smaller rides. Only thing they don't have is the hucksters with all those rigged games like ring toss and the sledge hammer to ring the bell.Also I miss the side shows. Even the State Fairs don't have a decent side show anymore. The music they played in back of the video is that same song they'd play at all those amusement parks. Don't know the name of it,but everytime I hear it ,it reminds me of amusement parks. The one in Chicago,that's no longer there, was called Riverview.

Mario Lanza could have been the greatest opera singer of all time. Some of his arias I still think are the best. He sang as good as Pavoratti,but Hollywood derailed his operatic career.

Richie Valens. You knew he was from the neighborhood when he made that album,"Live At Pocoima Junior High". Think of what he could have been on an Oldies But Goodies Tour?

The Seaside Gym, Long Beach . . .

The Long Beach Pike Roller Coaster? That was the "Cyclone Racer" and at high tide, I swear the thing would dip into the surf as it made a drop prior to it's going upwards into it's highest point. Spent some time there as a kid with my cousin. They had the old style "Diving Bell" too. It would drop you from the pier under the Pacific Ocean giving you a view under the surf. They had the old arcades, and board walk, lots of Navy guys from what was then a Naval Base in Long Beach Harbor. Tatoo parlors, dive bars, the rigged consession stands, the hucksters, as Dagos pointed out.

Right down the beach was the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium, where guys like Rodolfo Gonzalez would headline, and where I'd fight in 1971 before they tore the place down. Now it's all trendy Long Beach Marina and the Queen Mary. Lots of boxing has taken place in that area. There is a Sports Arena, and I fought on the inaugrual boxing card, a prelim to the Armando Muniz-Clyde Grey fight in November, 1971. Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose was also right next to the Queen Mary, and under one of it's massive wings boxing was promoted in the late 80's. Guys like Jaime Garza were featured.

Everytime I'm in the area I think of the old "Seaside Gym", which was located right down the boardwalk about a block from the Pike and the old Municipal Auditorium, where the Long Beach Arena now sits. Veteran manager/trainer Jake Shagrue, a salty old Navy vet would sleep there every night The place was cold as Hell, the cold ocean breeze blowing under the front door into the unheated building. Shagrue, in his 70's, slept on an old Navy cot covered only by a military issue green wool blanket. No sheets, a tiny pillow. I saw it, right behind the rubbing table in the gym. This was a place that served as home for future lightweight champ Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos when he was down, Raul Rojas, and dozens more. Long after their best days, or in Gonzalez's case, before he hit it big, this was home for many boxers, a place to sleep on a cold night. It was chilly, drafty and dark at night, but it was home to many when they needed one.

Frank remembers the place, the guys who coached there, Chicago's former light-heavy contender Sonny Ray and Ernie DeFrance. These guys were part of the 60's and 70's amateur boxing scene in L.A. during Frank's era as L.A.'s #1 amateur boxing coach. I would love to hear Frank and Hap share anything they might know about Long Beach and boxing, San Pedro, etc. I know that Bobby Chacon's manager/trainer, Joe Ponce, fought out of San Pedro as "Joey Ponce". Any memories of that area and boxing history?

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

OK Frank
Where do we start? The old trolley cars. Road 'em in Chicago. Took one once with my uncle and cousin in L.A. I always like to see them at night when the sparks would come off the wires.

The Pike. What a monster roller coaster. I know they have bigger ones now,but that thing was right next to the ocean. We still have a smaller version down here. Belmont Park. The city was almost going to get rid of it,but it was saved. The roller coaster and the smaller rides. Only thing they don't have is the hucksters with all those rigged games like ring toss and the sledge hammer to ring the bell.Also I miss the side shows. Even the State Fairs don't have a decent side show anymore. The music they played in back of the video is that same song they'd play at all those amusement parks. Don't know the name of it,but everytime I hear it ,it reminds me of amusement parks. The one in Chicago,that's no longer there, was called Riverview.

Mario Lanza could have been the greatest opera singer of all time. Some of his arias I still think are the best. He sang as good as Pavoratti,but Hollywood derailed his operatic career.

Richie Valens. You knew he was from the neighborhood when he made that album,"Live At Pocoima Junior High". Think of what he could have been on an Oldies But Goodies Tour?

The Seaside Gym, Long Beach . . .

The Long Beach Pike Roller Coaster? That was the "Cyclone Racer" and at high tide, I swear the thing would dip into the surf as it made a drop prior to it's going upwards into it's highest point. Spent some time there as a kid with my cousin. They had the old style "Diving Bell" too. It would drop you from the pier under the Pacific Ocean giving you a view under the surf. They had the old arcades, and board walk, lots of Navy guys from what was then a Naval Base in Long Beach Harbor. Tatoo parlors, dive bars, the rigged consession stands, the hucksters, as Dagos pointed out.

Right down the beach was the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium, where guys like Rodolfo Gonzalez would headline, and where I'd fight in 1971 before they tore the place down. Now it's all trendy Long Beach Marina and the Queen Mary. Lots of boxing has taken place in that area. There is a Sports Arena, and I fought on the inaugrual boxing card, a prelim to the Armando Muniz-Clyde Grey fight in November, 1971. Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose was also right next to the Queen Mary, and under one of it's massive wings boxing was promoted in the late 80's. Guys like Jaime Garza were featured.

Everytime I'm in the area I think of the old "Seaside Gym", which was located right down the boardwalk about a block from the Pike and the old Municipal Auditorium, where the Long Beach Arena now sits. Veteran manager/trainer Jake Shagrue, a salty old Navy vet would sleep there every night The place was cold as Hell, the cold ocean breeze blowing under the front door into the unheated building. Shagrue, in his 70's, slept on an old Navy cot covered only by a military issue green wool blanket. No sheets, a tiny pillow. I saw it, right behind the rubbing table in the gym. This was a place that served as home for future lightweight champ Rodolfo Gonzalez, Mando Ramos when he was down, Raul Rojas, and dozens more. Long after their best days, or in Gonzalez's case, before he hit it big, this was home for many boxers, a place to sleep on a cold night. It was chilly, drafty and dark at night, but it was home to many when they needed one.

Frank remembers the place, the guys who coached there, Chicago's former light-heavy contender Sonny Ray and Ernie DeFrance. These guys were part of the 60's and 70's amateur boxing scene in L.A. during Frank's era as L.A.'s #1 amateur boxing coach. I would love to hear Frank and Hap share anything they might know about Long Beach and boxing, San Pedro, etc. I know that Bobby Chacon's manager/trainer, Joe Ponce, fought out of San Pedro as "Joey Ponce". Any memories of that area and boxing history?

-Rick Farris

Frank & Hap . . .

Frank . . . Would you mind posting the record of "Joey Ponce", future trainer of Bobby Chacon. Hap, I believe Joe Ponce was part a boxing famly, the Ponce brothers? Do you know anything of the Ponce brothers?

-Rick Farris

[Dongee]

Rick:

There were at least two Ponce brothers who boxed out of the San Pedro area, Vic "Kid" and Joey, in the 1920s and 1930s. I only saw Joey box once in February, 1935, at Pismo Beach. Vic had retired by then.

Even though Joey was a main event fighter in '35 he appeared in a four round prelim against another star bout attraction from the Philippines, Kid Moro. In the first major exchange between the two men, Ponce was accidentally thumbed in the eyes, dropped to the canvas writhing in pain to be counted out by the referee. Two years before that, Joey had campaigned in the Pacific Northwest where he was acclaimed lightweight champion of the State of Washington.

In my days at the Legion I developed Vic, Jr. into a feature bout figure, but not for very long. The youngster, like his dad, was a terrific right hand puncher and became rather popular with Hollywood fans. I believe he holds the record for the quickest kayo (32 seconds) scored at the Legion against Sammy Serrano in the mid-1950s.

hap navarro