Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Frank
You come up with some real funny stuff on the thread. You out did yourself this time. Rog

[Rick Farris]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Of course. However, lets not let these guys hype this as an "event". I think it should be scheduled for six rounds and put on as a prelim to the Pac-Hatton fight. It should be billed as "The Guy Who once did" vs. "The Guy Who Never Will". Hard cold fact for Oscar . . . Your done, we are no longer interested in you. Thanks for the memories, don't ruin them as you leave.

The cold reality of professional boxing., and for that matter, the rest of the world. As Johnny Flores used to say . . . Time marches on.

-Rick

[kikibalt]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Frank
You come up with some real funny stuff on the thread. You out did yourself this time. Rog

Yeah! its funny and absurd, but you know what? they'll have 125,000 fans there and Oscar will cry all the way to the bank....

[dagosd2000]

It's funny. Oscar has never fought in Mexico,and now he wants to fight in Azteca Stadium against J.C jr. before 125,000. If he loses to this kid,the Mexican people might for once embrace him. Oscar should go in the tank,or maybe he couldn't win anyway. Then he'll turn around and promote the kid's career.

Before this thing is over,you'll see signs in the bank that say,"No more laughing Oscar"

[kikibalt]

It's funny. Oscar has never fought in Mexico,and now he wants to fight in Azteca Stadium against J.C jr. before 125,000. If he loses to this kid,the Mexican people might for once embrace him. Oscar should go in the tank,or maybe he couldn't win anyway. Then he'll turn around and promote the kid's career.

Before this thing is over,you'll see signs in the bank that say,"No more laughing Oscar"

Its no longer about winning, its all about the money now, its been the same old story through out boxing history and Oscar won't be the last one to do it, and boxing (The Game) it-self is the one paying for it, "it" been the sorry state of affairs boxing fine it-self in....

[Randyman]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Of course. However, lets not let these guys hype this as an "event". I think it should be scheduled for six rounds and put on as a prelim to the Pac-Hatton fight. It should be billed as "The Guy Who once did" vs. "The Guy Who Never Will". Hard cold fact for Oscar . . . Your done, we are no longer interested in you. Thanks for the memories, don't ruin them as you leave.

The cold reality of professional boxing., and for that matter, the rest of the world. As Johnny Flores used to say . . . Time marches on.

-Rick

Rick, Johnny was a smart guy and he was right "Time waits for no man". Oscar will be hoping to recapture what he lost when he fought Manny Paquiao earlier this month. He lost more than just a fight that night. Maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. Each fight will take him further into that deep, dark abyss that he now seems to find himself.

You hit the nail on the head with Chavez Jr. when you said "The guy who never will". That's what makes this a meaningless fight. Oscar is putting himself in the exact same position he was in when he fought Paquiao, nothing to gain, everything to lose. My mother, who loves Oscar said "Oscar's not as smart as I thought he was". If my mother can figure that one out, so can the rest of the world. The time to retire with the least amount of damage was after the Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight but that fight has come and gone.

As with the Paquiao fight, I don't want this fight to happen but you know it will. It's about the money but somewhere in the back of Oscar's mind that old and oh so accurate quote "the whole world loves a winner" has to be floating around.

Randy

[Randyman]

It's funny. Oscar has never fought in Mexico,and now he wants to fight in Azteca Stadium against J.C jr. before 125,000. If he loses to this kid,the Mexican people might for once embrace him. Oscar should go in the tank,or maybe he couldn't win anyway. Then he'll turn around and promote the kid's career.

Before this thing is over,you'll see signs in the bank that say,"No more laughing Oscar"

Its no longer about winning, its all about the money now, its been the same old story through out boxing history and Oscar won't be the last one to do it, and boxing (The Game) it-self is the one paying for it, "it" been the sorry state of affairs boxing fine it-self in....

Take heart Frank, somewhere there is a young kid hitting the bag, skipping rope, and sparring right now, even as I write, thinking of the future. He sees himself as a champion. He's full of confidence, sure of himself and with personality. There has always been someone and there will be again. Maybe he will be from L.A., maybe he won't be, but he's out there. You can be sure of it. I love boxing, so do you and the rest of the guys here and there's a lot more all around the world. Tried and true boxing fans that will keep the sport alive. Maybe, like a fighter at times, boxing is on the ropes, but like a good fighter, boxing is looking to throw that knockout punch. It's coming!

Randy

[Rick Farris]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Frank
You come up with some real funny stuff on the thread. You out did yourself this time. Rog

Yeah! its funny and absurd, but you what? they'll have 125,000 fans there and Oscar will cry all the way to the bank....

You may be right, Frank. However, that Chavez kid can't fight. Has a great record against small farmer's from Iowa who practice in the barn after milking the cows. Chavez Jr. is the best protected fighter in history, you'd think he was from Eastern Europe. Tony Baltazar was better than JCC Jr. when he was five. Oscar? How much money does a guy need to keep from totally embarrassing himself? De La Hoya sounds like a used car salesman when he tries to sell his fights, it must take a lot of control for him to keep a straight face. The funniest thing would be if Oscar lost! I didn't think it was funny when somebody put out the phony picture of Oscar in lady's clothing, however, when he talks about fighting somebody like JCC's kid it starts to make sense. JCC Jr. is a girl. I will say this, it will be a "pretty little cat fight". Lucia Rijker should come out of retirement to challenge the winner. If Oscar wins, they could hype the DLH-Rijker fight as "The Dutch Destroyer" vs. "The Bitch from ELA".

-Rick

[raylawpc]

Oscar may not retire!

According to several press reports Mexico and Puerto Rico, a bout between Oscar De La Hoya and unbeaten "Son of the Legend" Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (38-0-1, 29 KOs) is a possibility for May at the 100,000-deat Azteca Stadium in Mexico City. Oscar twice defeated Julio's father, Julio Cesar Chavez in 1996 and 1998, making a compelling story line if the bout were to happen.
Monday.

Of course. However, lets not let these guys hype this as an "event". I think it should be scheduled for six rounds and put on as a prelim to the Pac-Hatton fight. It should be billed as "The Guy Who once did" vs. "The Guy Who Never Will". Hard cold fact for Oscar . . . Your done, we are no longer interested in you. Thanks for the memories, don't ruin them as you leave.

The cold reality of professional boxing., and for that matter, the rest of the world. As Johnny Flores used to say . . . Time marches on.

-Rick

Rick, Johnny was a smart guy and he was right "Time waits for no man". Oscar will be hoping to recapture what he lost when he fought Manny Paquiao earlier this month. He lost more than just a fight that night. Maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. Each fight will take him further into that deep, dark abyss that he now seems to find himself.

You hit the nail on the head with Chavez Jr. when you said "The guy who never will". That's what makes this a meaningless fight. Oscar is putting himself in the exact same position he was in when he fought Paquiao, nothing to gain, everything to lose. My mother, who loves Oscar said "Oscar's not as smart as I thought he was". If my mother can figure that one out, so can the rest of the world. The time to retire with the least amount of damage was after the Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight but that fight has come and gone.

As with the Paquiao fight, I don't want this fight to happen but you know it will. It's about the money but somewhere in the back of Oscar's mind that old and oh so accurate quote "the whole world loves a winner" has to be floating around.

Randy

I fall into the third catagory - you know, "The Guy Who Never Was."

But I suspect that for top performers like de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, and other guys who stayed too long, the allure of the ring is awfully powerful. What else can they do in life to equal the rush of performing before thousands of cheering fans? I think it goes beyond money. I think they need that rush. I think they crave it the way some junkies crave heroin.

[Randyman]

Tom Wrote:

I fall into the third catagory - you know, "The Guy Who Never Was."

But I suspect that for top performers like de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, and other guys who stayed too long, the allure of the ring is awfully powerful. What else can they do in life to equal the rush of performing before thousands of cheering fans? I think it goes beyond money. I think they need that rush. I think they crave it the way some junkies crave heroin.

Ah yes, the third category "The Guy Who Never Was". I hear you. That about sums it up for me too. Which is why, regardless of where their careers end up, even the "Tomato Cans" get my respect. No small feat to become a ranked fighter, much less a champ. It's more than I accomplished. If after a time, a fighter's career hits the skids, well, it has happened to the best of them.

Tom, you are so right about the addiction. I believe money plays a large part in a fighters, inability to call it quits but they want to be champs again, they want the accolades, the glory. It's what they fought for. In some ways I can't blame them. The very stubbornness that made them great is now working against them.

Randy

[dagosd2000]

Diego Corrales & The Greatest Fight of All Time
By Gene Ramirez-RSR


Each one of us has a favorite movie. Mine is “The Hustler.” Paul Newman plays a pool hustler named “Fast Eddie Felson” who tries to make a move on the longtime king of hustling, Minnesota Fats, played by Jackie Gleason. Growing up playing pool with my dad I thought it was a great movie with great performances by Newman and Gleason. My brother on the other hand loves anything with Will Ferrell in it. I even have a friend who likes those Ernest Goes to Camp kind of movies!

My point is we all have our own tastes which can be as different as night and day in some cases. We each have our favorite foods, our favorite drink, our favorite fighter, and of course our favorite fight.

When I think of my favorite all time fight it wasn't easy for us to think of just one fight. There were literally dozens that went through my mind. Of course there was the great Arturo Gatti vs. Micky Ward fights. I am a big fan of the body shot and so those fights always will have a place in my heart. I am sure there are many of you out there who love those fights and have them placed above my favorite.

Another great series of fights recently were the Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera matches. There are probably many Mexicans out there who are calling me crazy that I didn't put any of those fights as my favorite. Those were also great battles and if I walked by a television with those fights on you can bet that I will plant myself in front of them and watch them in their entirety.

Some of the older readers might be saying right now that “this kid doesn't know a good fight.” While they think of some of the great fights further down the road. And while its true that I wasn't actually around to see many of the best fights live, I of course have seen the tapes repeatedly and have a deep appreciation of the fighters of the past.

Some of my favorite fights include “The Rumble in the Jungle,” “The Showdown” between Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard, of course I could go on and on. Those were all great fights and if I had watched them live perhaps they would rate higher for me.

When I think of my favorite fight of all time…that one fight that you can watch over and over again…that one fight that you think of when you hear someone mention great fights. For me that fight is Diego Corrales vs. Jose Luis Castillo.

Any real boxing fan had to flash back when I just mentioned those two names together. In case you don't know what I'm talking about then do yourself a favor and go check Youtube and see the fight and come back.

This fight is my all time favorite for a number of reasons. I remember seeing it the first time almost wondering if this was really happening before my eyes. From the very beginning of the fight these two guys just went to war. They traded shot after shot. Hooks to the head and body. The amount of punishment that both guys dished out and received was beyond belief.

I remember before the fight telling my friends that it could have been a good fight. Both guys were well enough known that I got together some of my friends to watch it. Then after only a few rounds, I was already saying this could end up being a great fight. Then a few more rounds of the same thing, all out action. By this time I was saying “wow!” This could be the fight of the year. Then the tenth round came along. It started out like another great round but we were in store for something special.

As the round started Castillo would catch Corrales with a perfect left hook that put him on the seat of his pants. It was the 2:34 mark of the round that started one of the best rounds of boxing I ever witnessed.

When he went down Corrales spit out his mouthpiece in what would also add some controversy to the round. When Corrales got up in time for the eight count, he got a handful of extra seconds because he had to go to his corner to get his mouthpiece put in.

When Corrales was finally ready Castillo knew he had his man hurt and went in to finish him off and Corrales went down after a barrage of punches including a right uppercut that really hurt him.

On the canvas again Corrales once again pulled out his mouthpiece. This time getting up just before the ten count, Referee Tony Weeks penalized Corrales a point for excessively spitting out his mouthpiece. Again Corrales had to go to his corner to get the mouthpiece put back in.

After the short break, Castillo went in to seemingly finish Corrales off but instead got caught with a stinging right hook that stunned him.

Corrales then backed Castillo up against the ropes and started to unleash a barrage of his own. Castillo fought back but at this point we seen that Corrales had now taken back control and it looked like Castillo might really be in trouble.

It was only a few seconds later that Corrales landed another combination of hooks that had Castillo out on his feet and the referee stepped in to end the fight.

After going nuts with my friends and watching the replays, I was then ready to make the statement that it was the best fight I had ever seen! All of my friends knew my passion for the sport and when they heard me say that they were kind of blown away themselves. To them they figured it was probably the best fight they had seen because they simply didn't watch a whole lot of boxing. But when I said it they figured the fight had to be pretty damn good because they knew the amount of boxing I watched.

Since that first time I have seen the fight at least 15 to 20 times. I have watched it with friends I have watched it when I was bored. It was a great fight and both guys showed enormous heart.

Corrales had already been one of my favorite fighters because of his style. After this fight he shot way up on my list of favorite fighters. Many people criticized him for spitting out his mouthpiece to buy more time. I questioned it myself until I actually thought about it. Corrales had to know he was hurt badly after that first left hook put him down and if he did it purposely then I have to consider Corrales was pretty damn smart.

He needed the extra time and ultimately it could have proven to be the difference. After going down the second time Corrales seemed to gather himself with the extra time and was able to then hurt Castillo in return.

Corrales showed some real heart in that fight. How many guys would have given up after going down the first time? He was clearly hurt, after getting knocked down he gathered enough courage to not only get off his butt once but twice. He never gave up. Never quit fighting. Never quite throwing punches and never stopped believing he could win.

While doing a little research for this article I watched a few clips of the fight again just to refresh my memory. I still get goose bumps watching it even after all this time. The fight was great, the best fight I ever seen.

RIP Chico.

It was a great fight seriously sullied (in my book) by the gumshield ploy. Man, Chico was 'out' twice before he came back. Small wonder Castillo was exhausted.
He had already won the fight twice.

You're right Bennie
The gumshield mouthpiece bit by Corrales sullied soiled that performance. Let's not ever hear about Dundee slitting Clay's glove again. That delay was a few seconds. (did that ever happen anyway?). Can't write it off,but Diego probably saved himself by having loose lips and a quick tongue.

[Rick Farris]

Tom Wrote:

I fall into the third catagory - you know, "The Guy Who Never Was."

But I suspect that for top performers like de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, and other guys who stayed too long, the allure of the ring is awfully powerful. What else can they do in life to equal the rush of performing before thousands of cheering fans? I think it goes beyond money. I think they need that rush. I think they crave it the way some junkies crave heroin.

Ah yes, the third category "The Guy Who Never Was". I hear you. That about sums it up for me too. Which is why, regardless of where their careers end up, even the "Tomato Cans" get my respect. No small feat to become a ranked fighter, much less a champ. It's more than I accomplished. If after a time, a fighter's career hits the skids, well, it has happened to the best of them.

Tom, you are so right about the addiction. I believe money plays a large part in a fighters, inability to call it quits but they want to be champs again, they want the accolades, the glory. It's what they fought for. In some ways I can't blame them. The very stubbornness that made them great is now working against them.

Randy

Randy . . . Like you, I am a member of the "Tomato Can Society." I think I've always shown respect for fighters, including Oscar whom I always stood up for when many in L.A. didn't. However, Oscar is not like us. He was a great fighter who has accomplished more financial success than any prizefighter ever has (or maybe ever will?). He beat the odds, now he's going to insult the people who have made him a billionaire by doing the Joe Palooka number, just to make another buck? This ELA guy isn't like the Danny Valdez's, or Ruben Navarro's, Oscar now expects us to buy him fighting a disgrace such as JCC Jr. It's OK for him to sell himself as a former great, reduced to the minor leagues where he still has a chance of winning, however, if that's his choice he should be an opening act, a ten round guy on FREE TV. I can see him opening shows on his beloved HBO. He'd surely draw a few more viewers to box-office clinkers such as anything featuring the Klitschko's or Valuev.

Why doesn't he go down to Mexico City and fight Margarito, who will give the Mexicans something they really wanna see, Oscar carried out on a stretcher. Ruben Navarro, the "Maravilla Kid", fought Aurileo Muniz, a former Mexican champ in his last go at the S.D. Coliseum (The graveyard of Champions) and was blasted out in style. If your going to commit suicide, use a powerful gun. I don't care who Oscar fights, none of the money he generates will come from my cash register (a Mel Epstein reference), unless, he does it like Joey Barnum did.

Barnum, who was in his 70's, wanted to get a boxing license and fight some of todays fighters. The commission wisely turned him down, so promoter Ken Thompson, out of respect for the former L.A. headliner, let Barnum put on a shadow boxing exhibition before the main event of one his promotions. Joey donned trunks and entered the ring in a robe, took his bows and then put on one helluva exhibition. He smiled, and so did the crowd who gave him a standing ovation. I know where his heart was, he didn't need money, he had been a successful bail bondsman and bounty hunter. He missed the action. I would bet money that the Ken Thompson crowd enjoyed Barnum's shadow boxing more than they would Oscar vs. Junior. They all knew that Joey would have fought if allowed, and he'd have fought a Gorilla with a fly swatter if necessary. Oscar is not of that heart, he's short changing his fans deliberatly and should have the courage to walk away like a man, not a dog with too many flees. With Oscar, it isn't like with other fighters, the Valdez's and the Navarro's. He'll walk away with more money than is imaginable, and he'll still be a shot-caller in the world of boxing.

Do I respect Oscar as much as I once did? No, not really. It takes more for a man to gain my respect than stepping into a ring. In my opinion, if I could do it, anybody could. Of course becoming a champ is something else. Too much drama when people tearfully announce that any man who steps between the ropes to fight has courage. Not necessesarily, so. People take too much for granted, we all have our reasons for fighting, and I of all people respect and like being respected by boxers, but it isn't the ultimate proof of courage. Ultimate proof of insanity? More likely.

No, I don't respect all fighters. Most, but not all.

-Rick Farris

[raylawpc]

I was never a tomato can, but I aspired to be one . . .

[kikibalt]

American Gangster
By Edgar Gonzalez


I’ve been watching a lot of movies while I work. Hands down, my favorite so far is American Gangster. The movie is based on a true story where Frank Lucas figures out how to cut out all the middlemen in his drug-pushing business and a team of detectives is trying to take down the drug boss.

I have been thinking how the movie and its themes applied to boxing. A few parts in the movie stuck out for me. Number one was this little dialogue:

Frank Lucas: What is that you got on?
Huey Lucas: What? This?
Frank Lucas: Yeah, that.
Huey Lucas: This is a very, very, very nice suit.
Frank Lucas: That’s a very, very, very nice suit, huh?
Huey Lucas: Yeah.
Frank Lucas: That’s a clown suit. That’s a costume; with a big sign on it that says, “Arrest me”. You understand? You’re too loud, you’re making too much noise. Listen to me; the loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room.

That’s so true. For example, Ricardo Mayorga is so loud and he always loses, but its entertaining. Floyd Mayweather Jr. he’s loud, but he’s weak in the sense he won’t fight the best. C’mon, he turned down an 8 million dollar offer to fight Antonio Margarito. Rumors continue to circulate the internet about him coming out of retirement but he wants a rematch with Ricky Hatton, forget about Hatton fight Manny Pacquiao, you already beat the Hit Man.

The second line in the movie that I liked was this one:

Chinese General: It’s not in my best interest to say this Frank, but quitting while you’re ahead, is not the same as quitting.

This is some thing Oscar De La Hoya should have done, quit before making a fool of himself losing to a smaller guy. Rumors are also circulating the Internet about him coming back because he doesn’t want to be remembered as a loser. Oscar just let it go and continue to promote other fights. If only we were smart enough at all times to live by those words.

[kikibalt]

2009 California Boxing Hall of Fame

Been busy working to put together the 2009 California Boxing Hall of Fame, due to Don Fraser's surgery, right now it looks like we're going on Sept 26 instead of June.

[kikibalt]

Tom...pick a photo of JJJ for the program and e-mail it to me, will you do that for me?

[Rick Farris]

It's funny. Oscar has never fought in Mexico,and now he wants to fight in Azteca Stadium against J.C jr. before 125,000. If he loses to this kid,the Mexican people might for once embrace him. Oscar should go in the tank,or maybe he couldn't win anyway. Then he'll turn around and promote the kid's career.

Before this thing is over,you'll see signs in the bank that say,"No more laughing Oscar"

Its no longer about winning, its all about the money now, its been the same old story through out boxing history and Oscar won't be the last one to do it, and boxing (The Game) it-self is the one paying for it, "it" been the sorry state of affairs boxing fine it-self in....

Frank . . . I've suggested that Oscar and Chavez Jr. should be featured in a six-round opening act to the Pac-Hatton fight. Could you imagine the hype such a thing would generate . . ."Oscar faces Junior in the GREATEST six-round fight in history". Now you and I know that would never happen, at least not today. However, let's turn back the clock 57 years, six months before I was born. The Hollywood Legion stadium. Main event- Eddie Chavez vs. Enrique Bolanos, semi-6 rounder, Gil Cadilli vs. Keeny Teran. Two headliners stepped down from ten to six rds. Now keep in mind that the Oscar-Jr. six rounder would be billed as "Greatest Six Rounder Ever." Cadilli and Teran were just starting out, each had a handful of fights. Think Oscar and the kid could equal that six-rounder between your buddy
Teran and Cadilli? Just kidding

-Rick

[kikibalt]

It's funny. Oscar has never fought in Mexico,and now he wants to fight in Azteca Stadium against J.C jr. before 125,000. If he loses to this kid,the Mexican people might for once embrace him. Oscar should go in the tank,or maybe he couldn't win anyway. Then he'll turn around and promote the kid's career.

Before this thing is over,you'll see signs in the bank that say,"No more laughing Oscar"

Its no longer about winning, its all about the money now, its been the same old story through out boxing history and Oscar won't be the last one to do it, and boxing (The Game) it-self is the one paying for it, "it" been the sorry state of affairs boxing fine it-self in....

Frank . . . I've suggested that Oscar and Chavez Jr. should be featured in a six-round opening act to the Pac-Hatton fight. Could you imagine the hype such a thing would generate . . ."Oscar faces Junior in the GREATEST six-round fight in history". Now you and I know that would never happen, at least not today. However, let's turn back the clock 57 years, six months before I was born. The Hollywood Legion stadium. Main event- Eddie Chavez vs. Enrique Bolanos, semi-6 rounder, Gil Cadilli vs. Keeny Teran. Two headliners stepped down from ten to six rds. Now keep in mind that the Oscar-Jr. six rounder would be billed as "Greatest Six Rounder Ever." Cadilli and Teran were just starting out, each had a handful of fights. Think Oscar and the kid could equal that six-rounder between your buddy
Teran and Cadilli? Just kidding

-Rick

No, I don't think they could equal the Teran/ Cadilli fight...

Its hard to imagini that its been 57 years since that nite in 1951, harder even to think that I was there, and our friend Hap Navarro made that fight possible....

[Randyman]

Tom Wrote:

I fall into the third catagory - you know, "The Guy Who Never Was."

But I suspect that for top performers like de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, and other guys who stayed too long, the allure of the ring is awfully powerful. What else can they do in life to equal the rush of performing before thousands of cheering fans? I think it goes beyond money. I think they need that rush. I think they crave it the way some junkies crave heroin.

Ah yes, the third category "The Guy Who Never Was". I hear you. That about sums it up for me too. Which is why, regardless of where their careers end up, even the "Tomato Cans" get my respect. No small feat to become a ranked fighter, much less a champ. It's more than I accomplished. If after a time, a fighter's career hits the skids, well, it has happened to the best of them.

Tom, you are so right about the addiction. I believe money plays a large part in a fighters, inability to call it quits but they want to be champs again, they want the accolades, the glory. It's what they fought for. In some ways I can't blame them. The very stubbornness that made them great is now working against them.

Randy

Randy . . . Like you, I am a member of the "Tomato Can Society." I think I've always shown respect for fighters, including Oscar whom I always stood up for when many in L.A. didn't. However, Oscar is not like us. He was a great fighter who has accomplished more financial success than any prizefighter ever has (or maybe ever will?). He beat the odds, now he's going to insult the people who have made him a billionaire by doing the Joe Palooka number, just to make another buck? This ELA guy isn't like the Danny Valdez's, or Ruben Navarro's, Oscar now expects us to buy him fighting a disgrace such as JCC Jr. It's OK for him to sell himself as a former great, reduced to the minor leagues where he still has a chance of winning, however, if that's his choice he should be an opening act, a ten round guy on FREE TV. I can see him opening shows on his beloved HBO. He'd surely draw a few more viewers to box-office clinkers such as anything featuring the Klitschko's or Valuev.

Why doesn't he go down to Mexico City and fight Margarito, who will give the Mexicans something they really wanna see, Oscar carried out on a stretcher. Ruben Navarro, the "Maravilla Kid", fought Aurileo Muniz, a former Mexican champ in his last go at the S.D. Coliseum (The graveyard of Champions) and was blasted out in style. If your going to commit suicide, use a powerful gun. I don't care who Oscar fights, none of the money he generates will come from my cash register (a Mel Epstein reference), unless, he does it like Joey Barnum did.

Barnum, who was in his 70's, wanted to get a boxing license and fight some of todays fighters. The commission wisely turned him down, so promoter Ken Thompson, out of respect for the former L.A. headliner, let Barnum put on a shadow boxing exhibition before the main event of one his promotions. Joey donned trunks and entered the ring in a robe, took his bows and then put on one helluva exhibition. He smiled, and so did the crowd who gave him a standing ovation. I know where his heart was, he didn't need money, he had been a successful bail bondsman and bounty hunter. He missed the action. I would bet money that the Ken Thompson crowd enjoyed Barnum's shadow boxing more than they would Oscar vs. Junior. They all knew that Joey would have fought if allowed, and he'd have fought a Gorilla with a fly swatter if necessary. Oscar is not of that heart, he's short changing his fans deliberatly and should have the courage to walk away like a man, not a dog with too many flees. With Oscar, it isn't like with other fighters, the Valdez's and the Navarro's. He'll walk away with more money than is imaginable, and he'll still be a shot-caller in the world of boxing.

Do I respect Oscar as much as I once did? No, not really. It takes more for a man to gain my respect than stepping into a ring. In my opinion, if I could do it, anybody could. Of course becoming a champ is something else. Too much drama when people tearfully announce that any man who steps between the ropes to fight has courage. Not necessesarily, so. People take too much for granted, we all have our reasons for fighting, and I of all people respect and like being respected by boxers, but it isn't the ultimate proof of courage. Ultimate proof of insanity? More likely.

No, I don't respect all fighters. Most, but not all.

-Rick Farris

Rick, I don't disagree with anything you said except to say that there are degrees of respect, in boxing and in life. I personally respect any man that can step into the ring. The degrees of respect come after he steps in ring, what he does with what he has. Without a doubt, there are fighters that are infinitely more deserving of respect and I give it freely. That being said, I understand that Oscar has lost a large degree of respect and credibilty. The thing with me is that I will aways view things from the bottom. I've been there. I have been down so many times. I have had to pick myself up and start over so many times. I remember what it's like to f*ck up big time. So my view is always tempered with empathy.

What I am is disappointed. Disappointed because Oscar not only let boxing fans down, he let himself down, big time. Just like the rest of us, he'll have to live with it. How he handles it from here on end is the real test.

On Antonio Margarito: until he gives Paul Williams a rematch he is a bad example.

Randy

[Randyman]

No, I don't think they could equal the Teran/ Cadilli fight...

Its hard to imagini that its been 57 years since that nite in 1951, harder even to think that I was there, and our friend Hap Navarro put made that fight possible....

I wasn't there but I know the answer to that one.

[raylawpc]

Tom...pick a photo of JJJ for the program and e-mail it to me, will you do that for me?

Yes, I have one in mind. I'll e-mail it to you when I'm back on high speed internet tomorrow.

[raylawpc]

Tom Wrote:

I fall into the third catagory - you know, "The Guy Who Never Was."

But I suspect that for top performers like de la Hoya, Ray Leonard, and other guys who stayed too long, the allure of the ring is awfully powerful. What else can they do in life to equal the rush of performing before thousands of cheering fans? I think it goes beyond money. I think they need that rush. I think they crave it the way some junkies crave heroin.

Ah yes, the third category "The Guy Who Never Was". I hear you. That about sums it up for me too. Which is why, regardless of where their careers end up, even the "Tomato Cans" get my respect. No small feat to become a ranked fighter, much less a champ. It's more than I accomplished. If after a time, a fighter's career hits the skids, well, it has happened to the best of them.

Tom, you are so right about the addiction. I believe money plays a large part in a fighters, inability to call it quits but they want to be champs again, they want the accolades, the glory. It's what they fought for. In some ways I can't blame them. The very stubbornness that made them great is now working against them.

Randy

BTW Randy, I sure enjoyed that youtube video of you and your grandson with the mitts. It really makes me hope for the day I'm blessed with a grandson like yours.

[kikibalt]

"Jimmy Bivins"

By Roger Esty

[kikibalt]

The Harder They Fall: Sunset's Boxing Journal
By Sunset Thomas
RSR

I probably should have seduced Mike “Mama Mia” Marrone at the Mohegan Sun Casino in Uncaseville, Connecticut, back in 2006 after he stopped heavyweight Dan Whetzel in the Sixth Round. He was such a sweet kid—big and strong—but naïve as hell. Frankie Gambino insists that doing so would have done nothing to change the course of history, but somehow I have my doubts.

See, I started following Mike early on. Back when my associates at Reno Ring LLC put on their first boxing event in Lake Tahoe. That’s when I first met Lou and Dino Duva—and that’s when I first found out about their young prospect—Michael Marrone.

Oscar Diaz headlined that card—he was a hot ticket and he knocked out Juan Carlos Amezcua in two rounds. Tragically, “El Torito’s” career ended in the ring against Delvin Rodriguez earlier this year. By the grace of God he is still with us—a little prayer for his continued healing would be most appreciated.

Anyways, Marrone fought some guy named Michael Moncrief that night. He TKO’d him in the first round. It was only Mike’s third fight and what was most obvious about the young stallion was his amazing hand speed. In fact, Ray Mancini (who was ringside), commented that he’d seen very few heavies with hand speed that rivaled that of Mike Marrone.

After the final bell had tolled and the last bouts scoring was tallied and announced—the lot of us sauntered off to the casino to drink and gamble and essentially carry on. Meanwhile, young Mike headed off to the kid’s section of Caesars to play some video arcade games with a sack of quarters that “Papa” Lou Duva forked over. He was so damn cute.

I followed Michael’s career religiously and when I turned Frankie Gambino onto the kid he quickly became a fan (though Frankie thought Michael might not have the weight to be a truly effective, top-tier heavyweight).

“He ain’t no Rocky Marciano…” Frankie lamented after watching a fight where Marrone was clocked and dropped—beating the count, however, and ultimately knocking his opponent out. I nodded, just happy the boy had survived.

“…But I’ll admit he does have hand-speed and some power. And with old man Duva in his corner—well, you never know.” To be honest, Frankie continued, “With the current crop of fatsos, Two-Ton Tony Galento or even that Bayonne Bleeder fella, Chuck Wepner might be champs.” (Frankie calls most of the big-guys today default heavyweights because they’re so fat they couldn’t fight in any other division.)

Lou Duva’s involvement in Mike’s career, however, was particularly poetic. See, Marrone used to hang out in Duva’s Florida gym when he was just a little kid (seven or eight years old). Lou would have him fill water bottles, fetch tape, organize gloves—that sort of thing. As the little Marrone grew into a young strapper, his gym-rat background lent itself to lacing up the gloves himself—and whom better than Lou Duva to guide him along.

But I’m digressing, getting a little sentimental (Frankie says I do that because I’m Irish).

In any event, let me get back on point. After all, I opened this column pontificating about giving “piece” a chance. In other words, I believe I should have banged the kid before some other broad could get into his head and turn it into the mush mass that no puncher had been able to do prior.

Of course, all Frankie Gambino says is, “Sunset. You’re a friggin’ freak!”

“Sex has no place in the squared circle,” he’s fond of preaching. “In fact they oughta just have a little street light installed in one of the corners and let those round girls mingle under it between rounds—holding up their cards and damn near everything else for the whole world to see!

“Why in my day you saved the dames for after the dance. You didn’t dare even let them near a training camp. It was strictly verboten to have vagina anywheres near a man preparing to do battle!”

It’s fairly futile to argue with Frankie Gambino (sometimes I call him “Crankie Gambino”), though I did remind him that the first time we met he’d grabbed my ass!

“Turn around and I’ll do it again,” he said with a wink as he pinched and then lovingly slapped my cheek (the one on my face).

What I’m getting at and what Frankie is too damn old-fashioned to understand is that I believe I could have blown out the whole damn muff mystique from Marrone had I seduced him back at the Mohegan Sun.

I believe if I had that he might not have been lulled into the la-la land of first love. Where a piece of tail can be mistaken for the Holy Grail and many a young man is seduced like a sex-crazed sailor lured to his death by those sea-faring Sirens. I believe that’s what happened to Michael Marrone.

Yep, I’m pretty sure a piece would have been the perfect antidote. And you know what? Frankie Gambino doesn’t know everything. I’m not even sure a little poonani is poison to a fighter in the first place!

Dino Duva once told me a story about how his dad (the aforementioned Lou) walked in on his fighter, Livingstone Bramble, the night before his fight against Ray Mancini. Bramble was getting “Boom Boom” from no less than three babes—the night before the fight no less!

Lou couldn’t believe his eyes (and knowing Lou he kept them wide open!) Anyways, Bramble’s legs weren’t affected (well maybe just one leg) because the fight went fifteen hard (no pun intended) rounds and Bramble won a unanimous decision!

Frankie Gambino pooh-pooh’s that little ditty, “Hey, there are freaks of nature in every sport,” he says. “Look at the Bambino, Babe Ruth, why that guy could drink, smoke and eat in the dugout—and still knock one over the fence!”
“There’s no winning with you is there Frankie?” I countered.

“Hey, I can’t help it if I never lost. If I retired undefeated,” he mocked me.
“You only had one damn fight!” I reminded him.

“So put an asterisk after my name. I don’t care, you’re still not gonna convince me that a piece of…well…a piece of asterisk, would have helped that Marrone kid!”

See what ultimately happened to Michael was that he faced Francesco Pianeta in Germany for the WBC World Youth Heavyweight Title. Mike lost in 2 rounds—he hadn’t lost prior. Look there’s a lot of mitigating circumstances—a tragic death in his family, the possibility that he simply faced a better man that night in Germany—but me, I truly believe it was a case of first love/lights out.

I think some ill-intentioned tootsie got into his head and that’s why I think all you trainers and managers out there ought to take your young toughs to the Wild Horse Ranch in Reno or any legal brothel in Nevada for that matter. Get these young’ens laid. Get the mystic of sex and boobs and babes out of their youthful systems. Help them before some ditzy digger gets her claws into a promising prodigy and puts him out of business before he even starts understanding what the hell the biz is all about!

So there—I don’t care if Frankie Gambino is reading over my shoulder—huffing and puffing and shaking his head. If he wasn’t a gosh-danged apparition, he wouldn’t have a ghost of a chance with this horny hussy!

[dagosd2000]

Frank
The other day you posted a great rendition of Moonlight Serenade by Santo and Johnny. Are you a fan of Los Indios Tabajares? It's also two guitars in a similar style as Santo and Johnny. Youtube has some nice samplings of their music:Ampaloma,Maria Elena,and Stardust.