Carl Williams: How good was he?

[Jan]

I won against Bert Cooper and Berbick , for exanple. And his fight against Larry Holmes was a very good one , Holmes lucky to win this fight.

[silkov]

He was very good indeed, good power and excent skills and speed... matched Holmes jab for Jab in their bout but I think Holmes won due to his experience and heart... he gave more in the closing rounds to pull it out. Williams seemed to go down hill after the Holmes fight, perhaps lost a bit of heart... his ko loss to Weaver really finished him as a top contender and after that seemed to be bit chinny and undertrained... at his best though one of the top boxers not to win a title...

[Ezzard]

It was the Williams figth that really showed that Larry was sliding. Williams's style wasn't good for Holmes either.

[silkov]

It was the Williams figth that really showed that Larry was sliding. Williams's style wasn't good for Holmes either.

Yeah, Larry had lost a lot of his old speed and his reflexes were not what they had been. When He came back sometime later and fought Holifield and Mercer etc Holmes had adapted his style somewhat so that he wasn't relying so much on his faded reflexes and speed... I think he doesn't get enough credit for being able to mix it with somne of the top guys of the 90s when he was over a decade past his peak...

[Ezzard]

It was the Williams figth that really showed that Larry was sliding. Williams's style wasn't good for Holmes either.

Yeah, Larry had lost a lot of his old speed and his reflexes were not what they had been. When He came back sometime later and fought Holifield and Mercer etc Holmes had adapted his style somewhat so that he wasn't relying so much on his faded reflexes and speed... I think he doesn't get enough credit for being able to mix it with somne of the top guys of the 90s when he was over a decade past his peak...

Spot on. ercer was a tough customer who gave Lewis problems. Holmes' victory really was quite an achievement. he kept things competitive with Holyfield too.

You're rigth too about his adapted style.

Williams was a decent fighter who had lost to Tyson before he'd stepped into the ring.

[silkov]

It was the Williams figth that really showed that Larry was sliding. Williams's style wasn't good for Holmes either.

Yeah, Larry had lost a lot of his old speed and his reflexes were not what they had been. When He came back sometime later and fought Holifield and Mercer etc Holmes had adapted his style somewhat so that he wasn't relying so much on his faded reflexes and speed... I think he doesn't get enough credit for being able to mix it with somne of the top guys of the 90s when he was over a decade past his peak...

Spot on. ercer was a tough customer who gave Lewis problems. Holmes' victory really was quite an achievement. he kept things competitive with Holyfield too.

You're rigth too about his adapted style.

Williams was a decent fighter who had lost to Tyson before he'd stepped into the ring.

Holmes gave Mccall a decent fight too... I really think Larry is the most underrated heavyweight champion... as you probably know by now I rate him in the top 3 all time heavyweight champions... few can match him for skill, intelligence, competition and longevity...

[Robinson]

I dont mind Williams. He does however seem to be up and down as
far as his performances go.
On or off, he seems to have the potential to give any big man a
hard night....except of course that Tyson that decimated him
in such blitzkrieg like fashion..

I thought Holmes won the fight, but Williams gave him one very close
and tough bout. Holmes dug deep in that bout and adapted to a good
jab from a younger, fit big man.

I enjoyed watching his win over Cooper, he showed a good jab and a
smart game plan.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

It was the Williams figth that really showed that Larry was sliding. Williams's style wasn't good for Holmes either.

--- Seems like Holmes was well on the slide all through his career.

Many think a past prime Norton layed a beating on him, as well as Witherspoon and Williams. Need to remember that Larry was a King fighter and King always greases relevant officials in advance. Had Cooney had any experience going past the 8th round, or at least taken some tune up type bouts in advance instead of going into pubescent rust retirement, he could've easily won the fight since he was laying the biggest beating I've ever seen Larry take. Props to Larry for taking it, he was a tough nut to crack completely.

Williams had most everything needed in a fighter save a chin and the extensive development program and later protection program Larry had. Could say that about most of his 80s peers. Guys like Page, Spoon, and Tubbs all boxing as well or better than Larry into their 40s, but they never got the credit Larry got.

[enrique]

He was a very good fighter who was hot and cold and could go from excellent to mediocre performances from fight to fight but might be best remembered in the future for the TV satire of the character known as Carl The Tooth Williams.

[Seamus]

Excellent skills, but his undoing was his glass jaw.

[cybox]

The Truth had the size, the reach, the jab and the heart to be a champion. He just was in the wrong era at the wrong time. Holmes and TYson were too much at the time and Williams never had a solid chin. I would say Williams would have done much better against today's heavyweights and would have been champion...plus he had a cool nickname "The Truth"

[purple.obi]

I really liked Carl, very smart fighter. Disappointing that he didn't really get started in his match against Tyson. "The Truth" exposed Bert Cooper's weaknesses.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The Truth had the size, the reach, the jab and the heart to be a champion. He just was in the wrong era at the wrong time. Holmes and TYson were too much at the time and Williams never had a solid chin. I would say Williams would have done much better against today's heavyweights and would have been champion...plus he had a cool nickname "The Truth"

Agreed. It wouldn't be easy, but I think he'd beat peak versions of either Klitschko.

[elmersalsa]

After the Tyson fight, it was over for him...93 seconds!!!

[observer1]

He would have cleaned up the division today imo. The guy was talented. But like many other boxers, became fodder and/or started to decline heavily after facing Tyson

[dempseyfire]

Excellent skills, but his undoing was his glass jaw.

Spot on. Talented guy, pretty good skills. But pretty weak chin.

[oliverfennell]

Guys like Page, Spoon, and Tubbs all boxing as well or better than Larry into their 40s, but they never got the credit Larry got.

What??

Witherspoon really at a very generous push could have an argument for being "as good as" Holmes in his 40s, but certainly not "better than".

As for Tubbs... sorry, but beating Minto does not stack up against beating Mercer AT ALL.

And Page?? He was a journeyman in his 40s. He beat a lot of nobodies and was a gatekeeper for the rest... Monte Barrett, Robert Davis, to name but two guys who beat him and were not even close to Mercer's level.

[Robinson]

Holmes was not protected and developed as you depict and he showed
against top guys during the 90s that even as an 'old man' he was a
talent.


As for Williams....a fight that depict his weaknesses perfectly..
Vs Mike Weaver
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJu3LSMve8

You see his good style, his clean jab, his solid right hand and ...oh...his
somewhat weak chin :(

For those that recall...how well favoured was Williams going into the
Tyson fight?

[purple.obi]

Yeah, and then "Bonecrusher" Smith stopped Weaver and Witherspoon, and then looked horrible against Tyson. Marvis Frazier outboxed Bonecrusher.

[Ambling Alp]

Holmes was not protected and developed as you depict and he showed
against top guys during the 90s that even as an 'old man' he was a
talent.


As for Williams....a fight that depict his weaknesses perfectly..
Vs Mike Weaver
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJu3LSMve8

You see his good style, his clean jab, his solid right hand and ...oh...his
somewhat weak chin :(

For those that recall...how well favoured was Williams going into the
Tyson fight?

I don't know of anyone that thought Williams had a chance to win, but some thought he might make it interesting for a few rounds.

I do think it's worth mentioning that the Tyson-Williams fight was stopped prematurely. Not that it would have made much difference.

[Nile4000]

When I look at Carl Williams, I see a very talented fighter who had that 85" reach, very strong jab, and decent power. But he could not take a punch, which definitely hurt him against Tyson, and Weaver.If I remember correctly he started off well against Tyson, but Tyson slipped a jab, and that was it.

[purple.obi]

A match I think woulda been pretty cool when Williams was a top contender woulda been Pinklon Thomas. Sensibly, at least in hindsight, in Thomas's match against Mike Tyson, I wouldn't have minded if it had also been stopped. Tyson couldn't get Pinklon off his feet, but he was overwhelming him in round one. Angelo Dundee probably kept the fight from being stopped during the break after the first round by raising so much hell.

[observer1]

Makes you think though, guys like Williams, 'Bonecrusher' Smith, Witherspoon, Tucker etc. would clean up the division today pretty easily.
All it takes is one shocking defeat to end your career there and then.
Alot of guys got KO'd in early rounds, (usually round 1), and their careers usually came to an abrupt end.

[Rocky Balboa]

Holmes was not protected and developed as you depict and he showed
against top guys during the 90s that even as an 'old man' he was a
talent.


As for Williams....a fight that depict his weaknesses perfectly..
Vs Mike Weaver
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJu3LSMve8

You see his good style, his clean jab, his solid right hand and ...oh...his
somewhat weak chin :(

For those that recall...how well favoured was Williams going into the
Tyson fight?

I don't know of anyone that thought Williams had a chance to win, but some thought he might make it interesting for a few rounds.

I do think it's worth mentioning that the Tyson-Williams fight was stopped prematurely. Not that it would have made much difference.

Not sure if I agree Tyson-Williams was stopped too early. The referee's job is to protect the fighters. Referee for the bout, Randy Neuman, stated he asked Williams a question & got no response. Williams' eyes are clearly fcuked when he gets up after taking a beautiful left hook to the jaw from Tyson.

[DrDuke]

Williams was a good boxer with a solid skillset and an especially good jab. Yes, his chin was pretty weak and that had been the main problem, because of which Carl wasn't able to fully realise his potential.