British Top 30 P4P January 2009

[Horse]

1. (1.) Joe Calzaghe
2. (2.) Ricky Hatton
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (7.) Carl Froch
5. (4.) Junior Witter
6. (5.) Clinton Woods
7. (6.) Nicky Cook
8. (8.) Enzo Maccarinelli
9. (9.) Jamie Moore
10. (11.) Rendall Munroe

11. (10.) Alex Arthur
12. (12.) Ian Napa
13. (20.) Matt Skelton
14. (13.) Kevin Mitchell
15. (14.) John Duddy (Irish)
16. (15.) Jonathan Thaxton
17. (18.) Amir Khan
18. (16.) Bernard Dunne (Irish)
19. (17.) Wayne Elcock
20. (19.) Gavin Rees

21. (22.) Ryan Rhodes
22. (23.) Kell Brook
23. (24.) Paul Appleby
24. (29.) Darren Barker
25. (NE.) Paul McCloskey
26. (RE.) Brian Magee
27. (25.) David Barnes
28. (26.) Dean Francis
29. (27.) Bradley Pryce
30. (28.) Martin Lindsay

Out - (21.) Colin Lynes
Out - (30.) Danny Williams

[Horse]

Any comments, criticisms or P4P lists are very welcome.

[jayc]

John Murray? Mike Jennings? Both should be on that list.

[whiskey]

How on earth Macca is no8 ?

In 2007 he fought Bobby Gunn, Wayne Braithwaite and Mohammed Azzu-who.

In 2008 he got flattened by David Haye and then fought an unfortunate 1-week stand in (a 204lb heavyweight ranked 274 in the world)

Then at 11 we have the 'Amazing' Alex Arthur... a guy who lost a title he never even won in his only fight in 2007 against fellow brit Nicky Cook by scores of 111-117.

Clinton, bless his socks has mixed it with some high profile names over the last couple of years. His Tarver performance was poor and im sure he'd agree with that. So I guess he is clinging onto his top 10 slot for life.

Witter got beat by Bradley, but there were circumstances leading to that fight which hindered him and I don't think he's finished.

Personally I'd have Ricky Hatton over Calzaghe. His dogged win over the tough but limited Lazcano was at least clear-cut. Unlike the Hopkins v Calzaghe fight which i thought Joe lost.

Also his dominant stoppage win over no2 Malignaggi was more impressive than the Jones fight. Hatton was in total control. Meanwhile Calzaghe climbed off his ass against a totally shot Jones and despite Jones stumbling around, Joe couldn't force the stoppage.

Joe is clearly top 2, but I feel Hatton has took the bigger scalps / risks, hence losing his '0'.

If he beats Pacman he will be a no1 dead cert and back at the top.

[stujones]

How is Colin Lynes out of the top 30! McCloskey is very good, it wasn't a total surprise - it could be argued that now you are including Irish fighters that McCloskey should have been in the top 10 before the Lynes fight. He holds better wins than lots in the top 20.

[banjo]

Why haven't McCloskey and Lindsay got Irish next to their names

[Horse]

John Murray? Mike Jennings? Both should be on that list.

John Murray has only just won the British title, and that was only a win against Lee Meager for the vacant title. Murray makes the first defence of his British title this month against Lee McAllister. If he wins that, then I will consider entering him in next month's list.

Michael Jennings has not been fighting good opposition often enough in the last two years to maintain his standing in the top 30. When he beats someone decent then he will most likely re-enter the list.

[EddieShredder]

John Murray? Mike Jennings? Both should be on that list.

John Murray has only just won the British title, and that was only a win against Lee Meager for the vacant title. Murray makes the first defence of his British title this month against Lee McAllister. If he wins that, then I will consider entering him in next month's list.

Michael Jennings has not been fighting good opposition often enough in the last two years to maintain his standing in the top 30. When he beats someone decent then he will most likely re-enter the list.

Fair play to you for taking the time and effort to do the list every month, but if you think Jennings (and Murray, for that matter) isn't in the top 30 fighters in the country, you're mad.

[CEO_Hoodlem]

I dont think Rendall Munroe should be as high as 10.
Good fighter but alot better British fighters out there.
Andy morris beat him easy, fairplay it was up at featherwight.
Munroe Beat Martinez good win but he aint fought anyone since.

[Horse]

How on earth Macca is no8 ?

In 2007 he fought Bobby Gunn, Wayne Braithwaite and Mohammed Azzu-who.

In 2008 he got flattened by David Haye and then fought an unfortunate 1-week stand in (a 204lb heavyweight ranked 274 in the world)

Maccarinelli is at number 8, because few fighters who were below him have won fights significant enough to move above him. Maccarinelli is still considered World class and few below him are, and very few people rate Maccarinelli outside of the British top 10 P4P.

Then at 11 we have the 'Amazing' Alex Arthur... a guy who lost a title he never even won in his only fight in 2007 against fellow brit Nicky Cook by scores of 111-117.

Yes, I have Alex Arthur at 11. Are you saying he is too high? He was a strong European Champion, and in my opinion he mostly lost to Cook because he was finished at the weight. I don't think that he can be too many places lower.

Clinton, bless his socks has mixed it with some high profile names over the last couple of years. His Tarver performance was poor and im sure he'd agree with that. So I guess he is clinging onto his top 10 slot for life.

If Woods beats Muriqi, then his top 10 spot will be pretty secure fo a while.

Witter got beat by Bradley, but there were circumstances leading to that fight which hindered him and I don't think he's finished.

It would be good if he fought someone though.

Personally I'd have Ricky Hatton over Calzaghe. His dogged win over the tough but limited Lazcano was at least clear-cut. Unlike the Hopkins v Calzaghe fight which i thought Joe lost.

Hopkins was top 10 P4P and generally considered the number one at Light Heavyweight. Lazcano was maybe in the top 200 P4P (quite possibly he wasn't even this high up) and possibly in the top 15 in the Light Welterweight division. Calzaghe's win over Hopkins was a great, great deal more impressive than Hatton's over Lazcano.

Also his dominant stoppage win over no2 Malignaggi was more impressive than the Jones fight. Hatton was in total control. Meanwhile Calzaghe climbed off his ass against a totally shot Jones and despite Jones stumbling around, Joe couldn't force the stoppage.

Hatton's win over Malignaggi was better than Joe's over Jones, but not miles better, after getting floored Calzaghe dominated the fight. Overall Calzaghe had a much better year than Hatton and is considered by the vast majority of people World wide to be above Hatton in the P4P rankings, and I agree with those people.

Joe is clearly top 2, but I feel Hatton has took the bigger scalps / risks, hence losing his '0'.

If he beats Pacman he will be a no1 dead cert and back at the top.

If Hatton beats Pacquiao then he will very likely regain the number one spot.

[whiskey]

I see your reasoning Horse and appreciate the response.

With regards Alex Arthur - you easily swap his position with a more worthy Gavin Ree's for me.

All said and done, at least Rees beat Souleymane M'baye, who was a legit opponent and won the more prestigious WBA welterweight title than the WBO.

He also valiantly fought against Kotelinik for 12 hard rounds despite having no business at 140lb where he gave away height, strength and reach against everyone.

Despite having less tools than Arthur, he gave it a better shot that the Scotsman did against Cook.

I'd have Barker, Kevin Mitchell, Ryan Rhodes and especially Thaxton above Arthur who in reality has done sod all for a few years now.

Sorry Arthur, but you need to be a lot better and busier in 2009 !

[Horse]

How is Colin Lynes out of the top 30! McCloskey is very good, it wasn't a total surprise - it could be argued that now you are including Irish fighters that McCloskey should have been in the top 10 before the Lynes fight. He holds better wins than lots in the top 20.

It might be arguable that McCloskey should have been in the top 10 before his fight with Lynes, but I don't think it would be a particularly strong argument. McCloskey had been eligable for my list for a while but I decided against entering him until now, because I didn't think he had proven enough.

Lynes dropping out of the list after his recent loss was harsh, but if I hadn't then there would have been 6 Light Welterweights in the top 30.

Lynes had lost his last two fights and he was beaten convincingly in his second defeat. I thought that based on that he should drop out, rather than another fighter at the bottom of the list all of whom are on a winning run at the moment.

[stujones]

You need to look beyond the fighters you have heard of, or domestic only fighters, to see that a fighter isn't proven.

Look at his recent resume.

Tontcho Tontchev - Former EBU champion - he was KO'd.... everybit as convincing as Fewkes did.

Cezar Bezan - Former World champion was still competitive at world class as his controvesial split decision loss to Bejarano the fight before showed.

Manuel Garnacia - a man who holds recent wins over, a recent world champion- Carlos Maussa, ran Jaun Lazcano to a contensious (e.g. very controvesial) split decision just over a year prior to getting a one sided defeat to McCloskey.

Nigel Wright - Beat right as convincingly as Ajose Olusegun did.

Colin Lynes - Former EBU champion who should never have lost the title.

How is that unproven, and someone like Rendell Munroe considered proven?

Paul McCloskey = fighter of 2008 (domestic) in my opinion.

[gobbles]

Why haven't McCloskey and Lindsay got Irish next to their names

Since when did Northern Ireland stop being part of the United Kingdom? Or maybe McCloskey should hand back his Lonsdale Belt?

[banjo]

Why haven't McCloskey and Lindsay got Irish next to their names

Since when did Northern Ireland stop being part of the United Kingdom? Or maybe McCloskey should hand back his Lonsdale Belt?

He shouldn't have been eligible to fight for it anyway

[brian13]

You need to look beyond the fighters you have heard of, or domestic only fighters, to see that a fighter isn't proven.

Look at his recent resume.

Tontcho Tontchev - Former EBU champion - he was KO'd.... everybit as convincing as Fewkes did.

Cezar Bezan - Former World champion was still competitive at world class as his controvesial split decision loss to Bejarano the fight before showed.

Manuel Garnacia - a man who holds recent wins over, a recent world champion- Carlos Maussa, ran Jaun Lazcano to a contensious (e.g. very controvesial) split decision just over a year prior to getting a one sided defeat to McCloskey.

Nigel Wright - Beat right as convincingly as Ajose Olusegun did.

Colin Lynes - Former EBU champion who should never have lost the title.

How is that unproven, and someone like Rendell Munroe considered proven?

Paul McCloskey = fighter of 2008 (domestic) in my opinion.

I watched that full fight and Mc Closkey was far from convinceing , he decided to brawl after one or two rounds to make everyone aware he could brawl which did'nt work and he took the decision 96-94

[Horse]

Why haven't McCloskey and Lindsay got Irish next to their names

Both are eligible for the British title and have decided to go that route.

[Horse]

Fair play to you for taking the time and effort to do the list every month, but if you think Jennings (and Murray, for that matter) isn't in the top 30 fighters in the country, you're mad.

I fail to see why that would make me mad. Neither has done anything significantly better in recent times than those towards the bottom of the list.

Yes, I could find a place for both of them somewhere in the bottom 10 of the list, and neither would look out of place. But, for me neither has an done enough recently to earn a place in the list.

[stujones]

You need to look beyond the fighters you have heard of, or domestic only fighters, to see that a fighter isn't proven.

Look at his recent resume.

Tontcho Tontchev - Former EBU champion - he was KO'd.... everybit as convincing as Fewkes did.

Cezar Bezan - Former World champion was still competitive at world class as his controvesial split decision loss to Bejarano the fight before showed.

Manuel Garnacia - a man who holds recent wins over, a recent world champion- Carlos Maussa, ran Jaun Lazcano to a contensious (e.g. very controvesial) split decision just over a year prior to getting a one sided defeat to McCloskey.

Nigel Wright - Beat right as convincingly as Ajose Olusegun did.

Colin Lynes - Former EBU champion who should never have lost the title.

How is that unproven, and someone like Rendell Munroe considered proven?

Paul McCloskey = fighter of 2008 (domestic) in my opinion.

I watched that full fight and Mc Closkey was far from convinceing , he decided to brawl after one or two rounds to make everyone aware he could brawl which did'nt work and he took the decision 96-94

And Olusugun was LOSING against Wright untill Wright just folded mentally.

[Horse]

I dont think Rendall Munroe should be as high as 10.
Good fighter but alot better British fighters out there.
Andy morris beat him easy, fairplay it was up at featherwight.
Munroe Beat Martinez good win but he aint fought anyone since.

Munroe is the European champion and has defended his belt three times. There are not many other fighters in Britain who are doing better than that.

[brian13]

I dont think Rendall Munroe should be as high as 10.
Good fighter but alot better British fighters out there.
Andy morris beat him easy, fairplay it was up at featherwight.
Munroe Beat Martinez good win but he aint fought anyone since.

Munroe is the European champion and has defended his belt three times. There are not many other fighters in Britain who are doing better than that.

The opponents have been poor and there is only a few in that EBU division. Munroe , Hunter , Marsh , Dunne , Maludrottu and Martinez until he beats one of the other fighters apart from Martinez then we can judge him

[Horse]

I see your reasoning Horse and appreciate the response.

With regards Alex Arthur - you easily swap his position with a more worthy Gavin Ree's for me.

All said and done, at least Rees beat Souleymane M'baye, who was a legit opponent and won the more prestigious WBA welterweight title than the WBO.

He also valiantly fought against Kotelinik for 12 hard rounds despite having no business at 140lb where he gave away height, strength and reach against everyone.

Despite having less tools than Arthur, he gave it a better shot that the Scotsman did against Cook.

Rees lost his title over 5 months before Arthur lost his, so he has had longer to fall since losing.

Rees' win over M'Baye might have been a more impressive win at the time than any Arthur has had, but it is his only good win. Whereas Arthur has had a lot of good wins and has shown that he can consistently beat good opposition, which Rees has not shown.

I'd have Barker, Kevin Mitchell, Ryan Rhodes and especially Thaxton above Arthur who in reality has done sod all for a few years now.

Sorry Arthur, but you need to be a lot better and busier in 2009 !

Yes, Arthur hasn't done much recently, but neither have any of those guys you have just mentioned. If Arthur doesn't do anything soon then he will fall below those sorts of fighters in the next 6 months or so.

[stujones]

Thaxton is EBU champion, Rhodes just beat a world ranked fighter.

[Horse]

Tontcho Tontchev - Former EBU champion - he was KO'd.... everybit as convincing as Fewkes did.

Cezar Bezan - Former World champion was still competitive at world class as his controvesial split decision loss to Bejarano the fight before showed.

Manuel Garnacia - a man who holds recent wins over, a recent world champion- Carlos Maussa, ran Jaun Lazcano to a contensious (e.g. very controvesial) split decision just over a year prior to getting a one sided defeat to McCloskey.

Nigel Wright - Beat right as convincingly as Ajose Olusegun did.

Colin Lynes - Former EBU champion who should never have lost the title.

How is that unproven, and someone like Rendell Munroe considered proven?

Paul McCloskey = fighter of 2008 (domestic) in my opinion.

Yes, well perhaps I could have entered him into the list before. I have not seen that many of McCloskey's fights, so it is difficult to judge how good he is without seeing much of the guy. I heard his fight with Wright was close, so I think that went against him in my decision not to enter him into the list on that occasion.

[jayc]

Thanks for the reasoning on Murray and Jennings - i'll agree its been a frustating year for both fighters but i have to point out you have khan at number 17? Surely a 1st round ko loss, and beating 4 feathers/super feathers (as well as being dropped by one of them) has to put him lower than an unbeaten british champion and a former british champ with one disputed loss who is fighting for a world title in 8 weeks? Also, To follow your reasoning on cook, Jennings holds a win over the current european champ. Is your list based solely on 2008's achievements or an overall pound for pound list based on ability?