P4P Understanding....

[EddieShredder]

I think someone should explain to Ricky how the P4P ratings system works

2009 could be my last year. But if I beat Pacquiao and become the best pound-for-pound fighter, then get a rematch with Floyd and set the record straight, then I'd have to look at myself and where I am and what I'd like to do next.

[15829]

couldnt agree more mate plus with flyod still retired the best fighter in the world is jmm got screwed twice against pacman

[Poncey]

In my books he would be the best P4P active today.

[m1kee50]

what fights would Hatton have to have at 140 for Eddie to consider him p4p#1?

[liamlion]

If Hatton beats Pacman then surely he has to be considered amongst the best p4p fighters in the world

[Horse]

I think someone should explain to Ricky how the P4P ratings system works

2009 could be my last year. But if I beat Pacquiao and become the best pound-for-pound fighter, then get a rematch with Floyd and set the record straight, then I'd have to look at myself and where I am and what I'd like to do next.

If Hatton beats Pacquiao then he will arguably be the P4P number one. Hatton has not said anything stupid as he probably would rate himself as the number one after beating Pacquiao.

[EddieShredder]

what fights would Hatton have to have at 140 for Eddie to consider him p4p#1?

He'd have to win (more) fights above 140 for me to consider him no1. It's not bashing his resume, just his perception of how P4P works. Remember, he said the same before the Mayweather fight too. Had he beaten PBF, then Pacman would have moved into the no1 slot, and Hatton shot right up in the rankings... By beating the no1, it doesn't automatically make you no1, in my eyes at least.

If he beats Pacman, which I well think he might.... he'll have an outstanding resume... but I don't think he'll be the best fighter on the planet. Arguably, JMM would be (contentious losses to Pacman, better overall record, multiple titles in different weights) These things are so subjective anyhow...

To answer your question Matt... beat Pacman, and reclaim a title at WW, and that'd get him there or thereabouts. Or beat JMM at 140, or draw Mayweather out of retirement/inactivity and beat him. Pacman, + one of the above would do it. Like I say, it was more pointing out his understanding of the way P4P works - it's not a title you win in one fight, but one you earn over a period of time..

[stujones]

I agree with you Eddie regarding the Pacquiao fight. The manner of the FMJ defeat means it will be hard for him to be called the #1 P4P just by beating Pacquiao.

However, I think had he beaten Mayweather - then victories over 3 fighters considered (by most) to be in the P4P top ten at the time - Tszyu (top 5), Castillo (low top 10) and Mayweather (number #1) would surely have made Hatton the #1.

There isn't that much out there crying out to be #1. There is JMM who whilst most thought beat Pacquiao, no one can deny that the fights were close - so then if Hatton wins well.... well you could bring in the manner of the wins.

There is Joe Calzaghe who is bashing up the 2001 P4P top 10.

And of course there is Floyd.... but really Hatton would have to be in the top #3 with a legitimate claim for #1, although I wouldn't have him there.

[m1kee50]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

[whicker]

I think someone should explain to Ricky how the P4P ratings system works

2009 could be my last year. But if I beat Pacquiao and become the best pound-for-pound fighter, then get a rematch with Floyd and set the record straight, then I'd have to look at myself and where I am and what I'd like to do next.

Pound for Pound isn't a title, to be won by being the "champion," but never the less beating the fighter regarded as the P4P number one would tend to prove as much.

[stujones]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

Judah seems to be campaigning at 140 now, Williams seems set to stay at 154.

off course there is Cotto, Quintana, Cintron, Collazo and maybe Mayorga around at 147 also.

[EddieShredder]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

But thats my point mate, for him to be truly recognised as the best fighter in the world, he should be able to beat fighters at that level in the weight class immediately above him. Thats what P4P no1's do

[m1kee50]

didnt want to do all the talking lol

Judah at 140? he was fighting for a 147 title in august
Williams at 154, yeah true, if not 160

Cotto: Durable and hard. Was a hard man at 140, harder at 147.
Quintana, Cintron, probably dont want the risk/reward factor of Hatton IMO
Mayorga Hatton doesnt want the risk reward factor of Mayorga
He wont fight Collazo again. too much grief for a man he already beat.

[m1kee50]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

But thats my point mate, for him to be truly recognised as the best fighter in the world, he should be able to beat fighters at that level in the weight class immediately above him. Thats what P4P no1's do

but imagine if Hatton goes 4-0 at 140 against Pacman, Kotelnik, Bradley and JMM....

[EddieShredder]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

But thats my point mate, for him to be truly recognised as the best fighter in the world, he should be able to beat fighters at that level in the weight class immediately above him. Thats what P4P no1's do

but imagine if Hatton goes 4-0 at 140 against Pacman, Kotelnik, Bradley and JMM....

As I said in my previous post - if he beat Pacman, and then JMM... that'd do it as he'd have beaten the no1, and then the fighter most likely to have succeeded Pacman at no1. If he cleaned out 140 again, his legacy would go through the roof - and rightly so.

Another p4p thought... Imagine Hopkins had got the decision against JC - which he quite easily could have.... then he'd have beaten Winky, Tarver, JC and then hammered Pavlik... where would he fit in

[m1kee50]

I think that would have made him #1, I mean Pacman is only #1 because PBF retired, but another big win for Pac and he claims it by right, you know?

[m1kee50]

I like these what ifs

[Cannibal]

I don't get how fighting in multiple weight divisions makes you a P4P fighter. Didn't Bernard Hopkins make number 1 before solely in the Middleweight division?

And you wouldn't look down on Lennox Lewis for never fighting at Cruiserweight.

So the thought that you have to fight in 3 or 4 weight divisions to be a top guy is bollox in my opinion.

[EddieShredder]

I like these what ifs

Me too... and P4P is so subjective, it is a lot of what ifs. So Hopkins lost a SD... so if just one judge sees it different, and all of a sudden we have a different no1 p4p. Wierd/mental

[m1kee50]

I don't get how fighting in multiple weight divisions makes you a P4P fighter. Didn't Bernard Hopkins make number 1 before solely in the Middleweight division?

And you wouldn't look down on Lennox Lewis for never fighting at Cruiserweight.

So the thought that you have to fight in 3 or 4 weight divisions to be a top guy is bollox in my opinion.

Heavies is different.
Hopkins had quite a strong division to clean up, and he fought big names that CAME UP the weight.

Fact of the matter is that most times a division aint deep enough to do what Hopkins did. To have a quality resume you sometimes need to shift yourself.

[liamlion]

Hatton at 147 again?

Current titlists at 147:
Berto, maybe he can beat him, certainly more experienced.
Williams - not a chance, too big
Margarito - no chance, too durable and strong
Clottey - I dont reckon so, too much for Hatton

other good fighters at 147
Mosley - yeah, beatable but ask me again after the Margo fight
Judah - beatable as well, but isnt the same marquee name he used to be.

But thats my point mate, for him to be truly recognised as the best fighter in the world, he should be able to beat fighters at that level in the weight class immediately above him. Thats what P4P no1's do

Thats wholly inaccurate. What is the concept of the pound 4 pound 'title' about?... Its about comparing top fighters (usually from different divisions) and predicting who would prevail in a fight should the advantage of weight be removed (e.g. both fighters were naturally the same size).

Hatton fighting at 147 means that straight away he's putting himself at a weight disadvantage againt his opponents.

A fighter doesnt have to take on and beat fighters from the weight divisions above to be the p4p no.1 because that is essentially a contradiction of the whole concept (a subjective, mythical concept).

I think an establised and dominant champion at one definitive weight (e.g. Kosta Tszyu 1999 - 2003) has just as legitimate an argument for being considered p4p no.1 than a multiple weight world champion such as Floyd Mayweather.

In any event, Hatton would not get anymore credibility from beating any of the active fighters at 147 than he would for beating Pacman at 140.

[m1kee50]

What is the concept of the pound 4 pound 'title' about?... Its about comparing top fighters (usually from different divisions) and predicting who would prevail in a fight should the advantage of weight be removed (e.g. both fighters were naturally the same size).

is it? that moves it away from any reckoning on quality of opposition... naturally talented fighters like Calzaghe arent seen as p4p#1 on the back of their weaker resume

[Cannibal]

I think that would have made him #1, I mean Pacman is only #1 because PBF retired, but another big win for Pac and he claims it by right, you know?

Honestly, I think Pac has a better record than Floyd. He has been beaten, but his best wins are better than Floyd's best wins. The reason that Floyd was #1 was he was perceived to be unbeatable with his skills, despite probably having the most intelligently selected opponents in recent history.

He started getting P4P traction after stepping up to 140. He beat Corley and Bruseles. No one that anyone else in the top 10 P4P wouldn't beat. If I remember right, Corley even rocked him in that fight.

Then he fought Gatti in a one sided fight. Gatti shouldn't have even been in the same ring with someone like Floyd. Gatti was one of the bigger over achievers in recent boxing history and was pretty much on his way out when this fight was made. It just turned into a showcase for Floyd to tee off on a brave fighter who could barely land. Very similar to the performance Pac gave against DLH but I would give Pac far more credit for his. Never the less, Floyd got more plaudits and praise for this.

Then he jumped up in weight before even fighting ANY of the top guys at 140, and took on a shot Sharmba Mitchell and then struggled a bit against Zab Judah who was coming off the back of a loss to Baldomir, then Baldomir himself who was little more than a journeyman who got hold of an inconsistent Judah.

Then he took the pension fund fight with DLH, who didn't have enough gas to last the pace of a full 12 but still pushed Mayweather pretty close. DLH had lost 2 out of 5 in the build up to this, and arguably lost 3 out of 5 depending on how you scored the Sturm fight.

Then he fought Hatton, who was probably the only top fighter he really fought in his prime during his perceived P4P #1 status, but only after Hatton had come out of his comfort zone weight and had a ref that wouldn't let him fight his style. Hatton, also, was probably made for Floyd.

Then Floyd retired without fighting ANY of the best at 147 at the time. His best win was probably over a prime Castillo at Lightweight. But for the period of 140 up, I think he gets FAR too much creidt for the guys he beat. I do think that he is one of the most naturally gifted fighters around, but his CV doesn't show it.

[Dioufy]

Hatton goes P4P1# if he beats Pacquiao at 140lbs, for me.

[liamlion]

What is the concept of the pound 4 pound 'title' about?... Its about comparing top fighters (usually from different divisions) and predicting who would prevail in a fight should the advantage of weight be removed (e.g. both fighters were naturally the same size).

is it? that moves it away from any reckoning on quality of opposition... naturally talented fighters like Calzaghe arent seen as p4p#1 on the back of their weaker resume

No it doesnt. An element of deciding upon your P4P no.1 and whether fighter A (from light-welterweight) would beat fighter B (from super-middleweight) must surely (amongst other factors) take into consideration the quality of opponent each fighter had fought.